1. #2341
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    Buff pallies imo. good to see you're on raden though! gz.

    wish my raid team didn't keep dying on tortos normal still xD
    Haha, yes we clearly need buffs, as it does make me a little sad to bench myself on him due to timers. I see why Riggs rerolled monk on that. But thank you, it is def a fun fight, but VERY melee unfriendly. We went in last night with 3 melee, and it was no bueno...had to bring in ranged alts, which was a little funny. Joked about seeing the realm first spam with alt names in it :P

    And stick with it, most of the fights are just about execution, and that comes from practice and patience. You'll get there, and some of the fights after Tortos/Meg are really cakewalks comparatively (JiKun, Primo, IQ, Twins).

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-04 at 06:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    My raid team just downed normal tortos this-err, last, now-week, and we've put in a lot of wipes on Megaera...need keep dying at 5th/6th head (not even rampage, just cinders/Acid Rain)
    What's your group comp and kill order? We found that leaving green alone and just going R/B/R/B til dead was way easier; allows you to clean up cinders and ice with themselves, and no acid to worry about. Just a thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  2. #2342
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    What's your group comp and kill order? We found that leaving green alone and just going R/B/R/B til dead was way easier; allows you to clean up cinders and ice with themselves, and no acid to worry about. Just a thought.
    Well, our comp keeps changing, but you can check logs at http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/273387/ (I'm Myrodradia in the logs; Friday nights are main raid night, Sunday is a pseudo-pug with another guild to further progress on bosses after main raid is done for the week; Thursdays (a few times) is me on my mage with the guild we group with for Sundays). This is my guild's first week on Tortos on Thursday, though we've killed him on Sunday before, and have progressed on Meg on Sundays as well. We've been trying GRGRBRG (originally started with GRGRGRG). I'm not sure if our issue is healing related, or people not focused enough on mechanics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  3. #2343
    Well BRBRBRBR is far easier on healing, assuming your raiders can/know how to kite the ice (through the cinders), but if you're having issues with mechanics, it may not be the best. We just found it far easier when doing it way-back-when, as the healing req was lighter. Best of luck either way!
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  4. #2344
    Well that's what I'm not sure about, whether it's a healing issue or a mechanics issue...I know that in the earlier attempts one of our healers was OOM by the 5th head, but I think that changed by the later attempts, after she adjusted to the fight. However, a quick scanning of the logs makes me think people aren't getting out of the raid fast enough with Cinders, and aren't getting out of Acid Rain fast enough. And like I often tell them, I can't play their characters for them

    I will, however, bring up the idea of BRBRBRB with them as something to attempt, but I foresee disaster, at least for several attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  5. #2345
    During progression, in my guild we found that tank damage got out of hand if we didnt kill the third head once, so we ended doing

    GRGRBRB

    We also tried a couple of time doing the BRBR... route, but ranged said they found the bue ray harder to manage.

    We 3 heal, btw. Also 've read that it is possible either 2 heal it with good dps since heads go half way down during rampage or 4 heal it and take it easy doing good mechanics.

    In my raid, we are a casual group with a rooster of 15 ppl, and we rotate by weeks. We kinda forced the 3 heals approach since i dont like forcing ppl going 2nd spec or sitting players for a "better composition". But i've been said that the 3 heal approach is the hardest.

    Also, helps a lot if dps save cooldowns for red heads. If tank doesnt get a third breath things get much easier.

    Edit: Think its not being said in latest posts. HoPu is king is this fight. I usually tank red head and eat first breath with wings+HA, pop divine protection during second breath and HoPu just after that. (uhm, mental note: gotta try sit-tanking head during HA duration...). While tanking blue head you can HoPu cinders targets.
    Last edited by Kethmil; 2013-06-05 at 03:09 PM.

  6. #2346
    Ok good to know the way I've been dealing with HoPo is right. And yes, I like running with DP, especially as I've gained haste. Of course there are always those bad luck streaks of no procs, but if needed I can just call for an external. And when I have awesome RNG I have gotten 20+ seconds of SoTR buff.

    Regarding Megaera, there are lots of viable ways to do it depending on your team's strengths. What my 10m guild found best was to do green/red alternating the whole way, but this was incredibly healing intensive toward the end. It requires basically instant cinders dispels from the fourth or fifth head onward, and people need to be spread out and move quickly for acid rain. The tank on the blue head will need to be careful during the melee time in between breaths as that head will have a pretty big haste buff towards the end, and the red breaths/dots really start to hurt. As a tank I make sure to have all of my defensives up for the last two heads, rotating divine protection, ardent defender, guardian, and externals if needed. We found that heroing during the 5th rampage (when we are attacking the red head) instead of the 6th allowed us to kill red fast enough for the red head tank not to get annihilated. We planned healing and raid defensive cds for the later rampages including our guardian's HoTW tranq. This is really a brute force method that requires tons of healing though, the only plus is that no one has to kite blue beams so your healers will always be in range. We also found that our guardian was better at tanking the red head than me, idk if he's a better tank or bears are better equipped to deal with alternating magic and physical damage.

    Also make sure both tanks are attacking the kill target during the rampage, as well as using their dps cds when tanking a kill target. This will help you get the heads down faster.

  7. #2347
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorfion View Post
    Also make sure both tanks are attacking the kill target during the rampage, as well as using their dps cds when tanking a kill target. This will help you get the heads down faster.
    Both tanks can attack the "kill" head at all times. Only turn the non-kill head away for breaths. Then go right back to the kill head.

  8. #2348
    Wouldn't the head you're tanking be meleeing your back? Or am I envisioning it wrong.

  9. #2349
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorfion View Post
    Wouldn't the head you're tanking be meleeing your back? Or am I envisioning it wrong.
    If they are adjacent heads you can easily position yourself sideways - for the others you'll be out of melee range anyway.

    But then I don't think it's a good idea to do this unless you're tanking adjacent heads, because you'll have troubles getting back in time to turn the breath away.
    Last edited by Nillo; 2013-06-05 at 10:23 PM.

  10. #2350
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorfion View Post
    Wouldn't the head you're tanking be meleeing your back? Or am I envisioning it wrong.
    They have a crazy melee range

  11. #2351
    Hmm I'll have to try that this weekend then, I wonder if we can get 1 breath heads. Also since we do GRGRGRG strat we're always tanking adjacent heads.

  12. #2352
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorfion View Post
    Hmm I'll have to try that this weekend then, I wonder if we can get 1 breath heads. Also since we do GRGRGRG strat we're always tanking adjacent heads.
    I really don't think you should be doing that many green heads though.

  13. #2353
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    I really don't think you should be doing that many green heads though.
    With the risk of sounding elitist here, but just the brutal truth.

    Its a way to reduce the fight from a retard check to a gear check my eliminating the frost beam. For a guild with 0 tactical skills whatsoever that is probably the easiest order.

    We used this strategy several times and found it easier in some groups/pugs.
    Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-06-05 at 11:26 PM.

  14. #2354
    Ya I know that. Still think you should just do it the right way and learn to handle the blue beam rather than burdening your healers with a bazillion green nukes ~

  15. #2355
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Ya I know that. Still think you should just do it the right way and learn to handle the blue beam rather than burdening your healers with a bazillion green nukes ~
    At this point in the tier it's just easier that way. Practically Patchwerk, and if you 3-heal and Lust the 7th head then the damage only gets at all "scary" on the 6th head. Don't have to think a bit, just cycle a few cooldowns.

    What would you have instead in, say, a normal mode pug? GRGRBRG?

  16. #2356
    Idk - we always did brgbrgb because I was like 50k dps ahead of the other tank and that way we could ensure that the right head got the extra dps and our healers were crying oom every time we started with green.

  17. #2357
    I know full well the GRGRGRG strat isn't ideal, my main's guild does the "proper" strat. But we found it worked better for us as we have strong healers but some dps who aren't the most raid-aware. We've done it this way for weeks now, it was extremely punishing on the healers the first week but now that we get fewer breaths and people have more gear it's quite easy.

  18. #2358
    How is shield of the righteous used? Its only a what, 2-3 sec buff? Does that mean its only used when u know damage is coming that moment and WoG the rest?

  19. #2359
    Hold for a big physical attack (triple puncture, talon rake etc), the application of a dangerous physical DoT effect (like the one at Durumu) or simply use for a melee swing. Properly timed you can cover two melee swings out of three with it.

  20. #2360
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    How is shield of the righteous used? Its only a what, 2-3 sec buff? Does that mean its only used when u know damage is coming that moment and WoG the rest?
    The buff is really short, I know - it's hard to get used to at first. I would much prefer something that was a little longer. However, we are where we are.

    You are right that we should use shotr when we know when damage is coming (a predictable damage spike) but I think it's a mistake to use WoG for the rest. Generally speaking, there are two situations - the second being more common:

    Situation 1: There are some fights where there is a predictable, regular, heavy attack that you really want to catch with shotr. Things like Horridon's triple puncture and the Sha's thrash. Because the buff is so short, it is quite tricky to synchronise your shotr with the attack. With Sha, he has a little buff icon that warns you when the thrash is about to land, so I found it easy to press shotr when I saw the icon and generally caught them. With Horridon, it's a bit harder - I try to look at DBMs timer warnings and with practice you can predict the puncture's (he often seems to do one just after he's done his front/back aoe thing). I'm not as accomplished as some here, however, and do miss some. For these kinds of situations, I find it's best not to use shotr as soon as you can but rather pool a bit of holy power to make sure you have enough for when you need it.

    Situation 2: More generally, you face a lot of physical damage and want to use shotr to mitigate it. The best thing here is probably to get to 5 holy power and then use your shield. That will drop you down to 2 holy power, so one CS/hotr/J and you will back up to three and can use a second shield promptly if you are in trouble. Otherwise, just keep generating more holy power to get back to 5, then use shotr again. I use weakauras to give me a sound "ping" when I have 5 holy power, so I am not wasting it.

    When it comes to wog, this tends to be for emergencies or for magic attacks that shotr does not help with; for example Megara's breath attacks. Bear in mind that the heal is much more powerful if you have 5 bastions of glory (i.e. have done 5 shotrs), so it's a good idea to track that. (Again, I use weakauras for that - Theck has provided some nice strings you can import for it on his Sacred Duty blog.) A 5 stack wog can be regarded as a mini-cool down for one of Meg's breaths (unglyphed divine protection could cover the other). It's a another reason why shotr should be our go-to use of holy power rather than WoG. It banks up bastions of glory so when we really need a heal, there will be a powerful one available. Someone (Butler Log?) recently described a WoG with 5 stacks of bastions of glory as like a mini-lay on hands.

    The other thing to bear in mind is that the shotr buff stacks. So while one shotr only lasts 2-3 seconds, if you cast several in quick succession with the Holy Avenger talent, you could be covered by the buff for about 20-30 seconds. This could be useful as a cooldown to cover a phase of heavy damage - e.g. when Horridon enrages after Jalak dies. You could chain HA, then GoAK, then AD to cover you for about a minute or so.

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