Why is Exclusive content a bad thing to some people?

[Shakari]

The other side of the coin with this statement is that the content is there. They just need to do certain things to get into that content. Their $15 is the same amount as the guy who puts in the time and effort to see the content. Only, the one feels entitled to get into / see the content without putting any effort toward that goal, and the other is willing to.

---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 09:34 PM ----------



You could still see the last chapter though, it was there for you to go out and grab. You just had to put some effort into doing so.

You don't seem to get it in every thread like this you make, there is no other side of the coin for a lot of people aka the MAJORITY, not everyone can spend lots of time raiding but they still pay the same money and from the financial POV they have far more clout that the Minority of constant raiders simply because there are more of them.
A lot of people cannot do those certain things and you state that those who put the "effort and time" into the game do not get anything unique out of it .... they do get extra BETTER LOOT and BETTER REWARDS ..... I mean comeon think about it.

This smells again of the "ooh I want to be a unique snowflake and screw everyone else" type of attitude. You raid heroics and you have better gear, more achievements, mounts, titles etc all of which unless you raid heroics others cannot get ..... without putting in the same effort as you call it.

The game rewards effort end of story but it does not alienate 80% of its paying customers by making it so they cannot see the entire game in some fashion.

[Durandro]

If people would want to get gear for looks, they'd play some "Dress the Barbie" game. Perhaps such people also play WoW, but WoW isn't really about being "Barbie" game.

And 39 ilvls is a rather huge difference. If to not say immense. It's bigger difference than between KZ geared and SWP geared (entire lv70 raid ilvl difference). In 1 tier.

Indeed, with transmog hardly anyone uses current tier appearences anyway.

And honestly, I think those 39 ilevels are even bigger then that. The higher you go the better each item level is, scaling upwards constantly. Going from 463 blues to ~490 average epics DOUBLED my DPS on my Warlock. Gear bloat is completely out of control.

I'd be perfectly okay with heroic gear being purely cosmetic and a timed exclusive, in all honesty. For multiple reasons - it makes items rare and exclusive, rewards the dedicated, and doesn't make raids even easier for them as they get more gear from bosses they've already defeated and also giving a legup for the next tier. No lose situation in my eyes - only people who would have a tearfit over it are those who only care about their gear.

[Grym]

Ok, so you gear your characters. I agree it's fun but only when there is a sense of reward. Playing WoW in WotlK was getting to 80, getting full epic gear from completely faceroll dungeons and then you were ready to kill the Lich King. If it works for you than ok, but I enjoyed TBC more. Also again you use the argument that I am imposing something upon you, when that is how the game was actually designed at first. To give you a reward for your trouble. Players who cried for free epics actually imposed their style upon people like me. Also the other thing you listed are irelevant to having epic gear.

The difference is.

You model stopped him from progressing his character.

His model doesn't stop you from progressing yours (HC raid you still progressing it's ilvl, unless you care about progressing it's outlook more)

[JohnBrown1917]

Ok, so you gear your characters. I agree it's fun but only when there is a sense of reward. Playing WoW in WotlK was getting to 80, getting full epic gear from completely faceroll dungeons and then you were ready to kill the Lich King. If it works for you than ok, but I enjoyed TBC more. Also again you use the argument that I am imposing something upon you, when that is how the game was actually designed at first. To give you a reward for your trouble. Players who cried for free epics actually imposed their style upon people like me. Also the other thing you listed are irelevant to having epic gear.

I'm not impossing anything on you, how does me having gear affect you?

How are solo'ing/the brawlers guild not relevant? You need better gear to do those kind of things. You will get stuck quicker if you do it in 463~ gear.
You're the one who wants to take away the enjoyment of a large part of the current(read : Not vanilla's) playerbase.
Catering towards the a larger part of the playerbase(those can't raid/don't enjoy raiding, the raiders and the raiders who want a challenge) is a better business model than catering to players like you.

[Ferocity]

Ok, so you gear your characters. I agree it's fun but only when there is a sense of reward. Playing WoW in WotlK was getting to 80, getting full epic gear from completely faceroll dungeons and then you were ready to kill the Lich King. If it works for you than ok, but I enjoyed TBC more. Also again you use the argument that I am imposing something upon you, when that is how the game was actually designed at first. To give you a reward for your trouble. Players who cried for free epics actually imposed their style upon people like me. Also the other thing you listed are irelevant to having epic gear.

Even though question wasn't to me, but seriously what has changed? Difference between hc thunderforged and LFR gear is like difference between KZ and SWP raider, entire expansion of difference.

Or you really think it would be more fun to have it where most people are forever like insects, where a few are like gods (with 100+ ilvls difference you might imply)?

You have no clue how game was designed back then, sorry. With 100+ ilvls difference (esp. with current raid design), you might imply, the game will die sooner than you think.

[Grym]

I'd be perfectly okay with heroic gear being purely cosmetic and a timed exclusive, in all honesty. For multiple reasons - it makes items rare and exclusive, rewards the dedicated, and doesn't make raids even easier for them as they get more gear from bosses they've already defeated and also giving a legup for the next tier. No lose situation in my eyes - only people who would have a tearfit over it are those who only care about their gear.

That is going to be hard though....

I have to be honest, I enjoy getting gear, it is part of the enjoyment.

If HC gear are cosmetic only, the very first main issue is: it is very subjective. You may like something that I don't, and vice versa. Having cosmetic drop in HC only, if I didn't like the look of the HC set, means I am going to have very little incentive to raid HC (yes gear reward is a huge factor for me, if HC and normal drop gear with same look AND same power, I probably would stop raiding HC as I need the show off factor :P)

They will have to make HC gear look fucking amazing and most people will love the looks of, and be honest, since TBC I have liked the gear design less and less, hence since Transmog I have always wore my modified red T10 (shammy)

[Deleted]

You don't seem to get it in every thread like this you make, there is no other side of the coin for a lot of people aka the MAJORITY, not everyone can spend lots of time raiding but they still pay the same money and from the financial POV they have far more clout that the Minority of constant raiders simply because there are more of them.
A lot of people cannot do those certain things and you state that those who put the "effort and time" into the game do not get anything unique out of it .... they do get extra BETTER LOOT and BETTER REWARDS ..... I mean comeon think about it.

This smells again of the "ooh I want to be a unique snowflake and screw everyone else" type of attitude. You raid heroics and you have better gear, more achievements, mounts, titles etc all of which unless you raid heroics others cannot get ..... without putting in the same effort as you call it.

The game rewards effort end of story but it does not alienate 80% of its paying customers by making it so they cannot see the entire game in some fashion.

If they can't spend a night to raid, why should they clear the raid? Why should they get rewarded the same as someone who does? You are not willing to put effort into reaching something, yet you insist you should rightfully have it? It isn't about special snowflakes, it's about earning something and overcoming challenges. If you aren't prepared to put in the effort there is no need for you to get the rewards.

[Grym]

If they can't spend a night to raid, why should they clear the raid? Why should they get rewarded the same as someone who does? You are not willing to put effort into reaching something, yet you insist you should rightfully have it? It isn't about special snowflakes, it's about earning something and overcoming challenges. If you aren't prepared to put in the effort there is no need for you to get the rewards.

Doesn't most games nowadays have Easy, Normal, Hard, Nightmare difficulty settings? So they can see the content regardless of skill level.

[Kaleredar]

If they can't spend a night to raid, why should they clear the raid? Why should they get rewarded the same as someone who does? You are not willing to put effort into reaching something, yet you insist you should rightfully have it? It isn't about special snowflakes, it's about earning something and overcoming challenges. If you aren't prepared to put in the effort there is no need for you to get the rewards.

Because LFR loot IS NOT THE SAME AS NORMAL OR HEROIC MODE RAID LOOT

[checking facts]

my humble opinion: resources and players using those resources should be proportional. if 1% of the players are to raid, than 1% of the resources should go to raiding.

[Deleted]

I'm not impossing anything on you, how does me having gear affect you?

How are solo'ing/the brawlers guild not relevant? You need better gear to do those kind of things. You will get stuck quicker if you do it in 463~ gear.
You're the one who wants to take away the enjoyment of a large part of the current(read : Not vanilla's) playerbase.
Catering towards the a larger part of the playerbase(those can't raid/don't enjoy raiding, the raiders and the raiders who want a challenge) is a better business model than catering to players like you.

I am sorry I haven't played MoP so I don't know what Brawler's guild is, so I can't comment on this. And you having gear doesn't affect me. What I ment was that people cried to Blizzard and Blizzard listened. Now I can't play the way I used too. Which is working for my epics. I used to admire people who had BT epics and I never got them. And I was fine with that, as long as I had a goal. Ever since WotlK I ding 80, and kill what is current. There is no sense of achievement when I have the same gear as the best players on my server, only 39 Ilvl lower, and possibly different colored. Also the subs have been going down since end of Wotlk, so I wouldn't say I am a minority.

[DrSteveBrule]

How is ilvl not matter (I assume that is what you mean by "ineffectual?), as the tier progress, the gap might lessen, but they won't catch up, so difference is still there. Also the Heroic tag on the gear. So you are a HC raider that didn't care about ilvl?

It matters but it's not what made "gear upgrades" exciting. Gear upgrades are exciting because not only do they increase your power and look unique but you accomplished something for them.
Do you think many people find "valor point gear upgrades" fun? Hey, your ilvl goes up right? No, fuck no, no one cares about valor point upgrades.
And now that LFR and now Flex raiding will have the same looking gear (minus the color which doesn't matter) but lesser ilvl that just removes another pull to do harder content.

See, when I started doing HC raids I thought "well, the gear doesn't look different other than a color, is it really worth it?"
It's not the be all end all factor but it's important none of the less of why people raid. Awesome gear.
The awesome is losing when it's one of 3 reskins thats HARDER to obtain for an ilvl that will be relavent until the next raid.
So just stop thinking Heroic's offer such greater rewards when they are similar.

[Kaleredar]

I am sorry I haven't played MoP so I don't know what Brawler's guild is, so I can't comment on this. And you having gear doesn't affect me. What I ment was that people cried to Blizzard and Blizzard listened. Now I can't play the way I used too. Which is working for my epics. I used to admire people who had BT epics and I never got them. And I was fine with that, as long as I had a goal. Ever since WotlK I ding 80, and kill what is current. There is no sense of achievement when I have the same gear as the best players on my server, only 39 Ilvl lower, and possibly different colored. Also the subs have been going down since end of Wotlk, so I wouldn't say I am a minority.

If you tie all of your sense of accomplishment to gear color, then your foundation for progression wasn't very strong to begin with.

[Deleted]

Doesn't most games nowadays have Easy, Normal, Hard, Nightmare difficulty settings? So they can see the content regardless of skill level.

This is true. But MMO's are not like most games. They were designed to be social, where you needed to earn rewards by cooperating with other players. Also on most games you play to experience the content like you said. In WoW people play for gear. Personally I don't see the point in it now, when everyone has the same gear.

[Grym]

I am sorry I haven't played MoP so I don't know what Brawler's guild is, so I can't comment on this. And you having gear doesn't affect me. What I ment was that people cried to Blizzard and Blizzard listened. Now I can't play the way I used too. Which is working for my epics. I used to admire people who had BT epics and I never got them. And I was fine with that, as long as I had a goal. Ever since WotlK I ding 80, and kill what is current. There is no sense of achievement when I have the same gear as the best players on my server, only 39 Ilvl lower, and possibly different colored. Also the subs have been going down since end of Wotlk, so I wouldn't say I am a minority.

Actually you ARE still a minority before the LFR instant gratification bunch is still far higher in terms of numbers, Cata they brought back the "work for it" and we all know how well it turned out for Blizzard.

And you can still admire top guild's ilvl, 39 average ilvl is A LOT, getting a new piece of HC gear will barely put your average ilvl up by 1 (if that).

Back then it was "that looks soooo cool, I want it"
Now is "That ilvl looks soooo sick, I want it"

[JohnBrown1917]

I am sorry I haven't played MoP so I don't know what Brawler's guild is, so I can't comment on this. And you having gear doesn't affect me. What I ment was that people cried to Blizzard and Blizzard listened. Now I can't play the way I used too. Which is working for my epics. I used to admire people who had BT epics and I never got them. And I was fine with that, as long as I had a goal. Ever since WotlK I ding 80, and kill what is current. There is no sense of achievement when I have the same gear as the best players on my server, only 39 Ilvl lower, and possibly different colored. Also the subs have been going down since end of Wotlk, so I wouldn't say I am a minority.

You do realize players quit or a variety of reasons? I don't even know the amount of breaks I went on because I burned out on WoW.


The raiding playerbase is a minority(not including LFR). Blizzard have acteally said this. They gave us numbers.
Which is why they give gear to people who put time into obtaining them, so that those players can progress their characters, or do the brawlers guild, or solo old raid bosses.. or whatever they want to do that does include raiding.
I do think raiding should stay, but the minority of the current raiding player-base who enjoyed the TBC model should not be catered to, as it affects the non-raiders. The old model was also very alt unfriendly.

[Kaleredar]

This is true. But MMO's are not like most games. They were designed to be social, where you needed to earn rewards by cooperating with other players. Also on most games you play to experience the content like you said. In WoW people play for gear. Personally I don't see the point in it now, when everyone has the same gear.

Did you not see my post in giant letters?

[Grym]

This is true. But MMO's are not like most games. They were designed to be social, where you needed to earn rewards by cooperating with other players. Also on most games you play to experience the content like you said. In WoW people play for gear. Personally I don't see the point in it now, when everyone has the same gear.

And actually a lot of the newer MMO now also have different difficulty settings....

[Deleted]

Even though question wasn't to me, but seriously what has changed? Difference between hc thunderforged and LFR gear is like difference between KZ and SWP raider, entire expansion of difference.

Or you really think it would be more fun to have it where most people are forever like insects, where a few are like gods (with 100+ ilvls difference you might imply)?

You have no clue how game was designed back then, sorry. With 100+ ilvls difference (esp. with current raid design), you might imply, the game will die sooner than you think.

Again I don't care about others. I just want a fun and rewarding gaming experience, which WoW sadly fails to provide. But it used too in the past, that's why I am complaining here.

[DrSteveBrule]

Back then it was "that looks soooo cool, I want it"
Now is "That ilvl looks soooo sick, I want it"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh Lord have mercy. Yeah buddy, I get a hard on when I look at my inventory and see those sexy numbers! Yeah baby yeah! LOL