Stromgarde Scenario?

[codeGnave]

I stand by my desire for it to be a multi-faction city. The story, since WC3, has been about the Horde and the Alliance always at each others thoughts, until something comes along where they need to work together. Watch the introductory cinematic for Mists and you will see what I mean.

The Legion is returning, and the forces of Azeroth will need a staging ground, what better place than then a kingdom without any people?

[Lynneiah]

I don't feel whether or not Galen is dead is nearly as important as whether or not he has died. He has, and from that second onwards, his rights passed on. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why that right should go back to him once it moved on.

[Kalcheus]

Also, I assume when people say LICH KING 2.0 they STILL go with the brainwashing stuff that was thrown out during beta right?
She isn't animating people and forcing them against their will, she is animating people and they JOIN HER or THEY DON'T.
She is literally giving people a second life.

I was speaking from Tirion's perspective. I'm pretty sure he didn't play on the Beta.

[Talen]

they are UNdead. the prefix un- means "not". therefore, they are not dead. they're not alive either, but they're definitely not dead.

Death is a precondition for being undead.

Nor is undeath the opposite of being dead. That would be "living". Undeath is simply a different form of death - one where the being is still dead, but is also still animated.

Simple tricks of wordplay can't change what undeath actually is - which means if you want to use Galens claim, then you also have to get around the small fact that he died as part of the process of becoming Forsaken and thus the title legally passed to someone else.

As a result, Galens only claim is going to be that of conqueror. Which would be the case anyway as the people of Stromgarde won't accept a Forsaken as King.

EJL

[razorfire]

Death is a precondition for being undead.

Nor is undeath the opposite of being dead. That would be "living". Undeath is simply a different form of death - one where the being is still dead, but is also still animated.

Simple tricks of wordplay can't change what undeath actually is - which means if you want to use Galens claim, then you also have to get around the small fact that he died as part of the process of becoming Forsaken and thus the title legally passed to someone else.

As a result, Galens only claim is going to be that of conqueror. Which would be the case anyway as the people of Stromgarde won't accept a Forsaken as King.

EJL

stromgarde is a kingdom, galen is the last available option for king as danath is in outland (or may even be dead at this point, we'd have to learn more from blizzard to be sure). a reagent-hood is a hollow state in which leadership is uncertain and is only arguably in the hands of the person declared "reagent", galen has more claim than the next reagent in line regardless of what alliance say of "but he died". yes he died, now he's not dead, undead is not another kind of dead it is another kind of alive, a variation of resurrection and I HIGHLY doubt if galen had been brought back outside of the forsaken there would be any alliance players disputing his claim of the throne.

[Stormdash]

When this argument over the Forsaken comes up, I can't help but try to imagine solving real property problems in a world where there was such a thing as the undead. Like, if a joint tenant dies but becomes undead, does the right of survivorship operate? I bet it would just settle as severing the joint tenancy.

[razorfire]

When this argument over the Forsaken comes up, I can't help but try to imagine solving real property problems in a world where there was such a thing as the undead. Like, if a joint tenant dies but becomes undead, does the right of survivorship operate? I bet it would just settle as severing the joint tenancy.

consider it in the same light that you might look at normal resurrection, if someone dies but they're brought back with all their flesh attached and exactly the same as they were before they died...do you spend the time saying they have no right to something they had before or do you acknowledge their rights again on the reasoning that they are alive now.

[Talen]

stromgarde is a kingdom, galen is the last available option for king as danath is in outland (or may even be dead at this point, we'd have to learn more from blizzard to be sure).

Galen is dead. Either the title passes or we get dynastic succession. Either way, Galen has no claim.

This isn't difficult - Galen is, by definiton, dead...therefore he cannot claim a title that passes to another when the holder dies.

Nor does it matter - Galen is dead. Galen is a Forsaken. The people of Arathi will NOT accept either as their King. So Galens only choice is to conquer them, kill them raise them

EJL

[derpkitteh]

unlife and the rights of the undead aren't all that tricky. the undead are very much alive in the sense that they think, feel emotions and such. their bodies have just lost a bit of luster after dying once. i believe that undead citizens of stromgarde and lordaeron are entitled to their land, and the living citizens of those fallen kingdoms are entitled equally. an undead person is exactly like a person resurrect. if you stop counting the undead as deserving of the things they had before their first death, then you should stop counting those risen by paladins and priests and all other manner of those who resurrect.


so i believe that galen is entitled to his throne, and the undead people of arathi should have their right to the city. but i also believe that the differences between living and undead should come to an end, and the living and undead should strive to live together in their city because they're both entitled to what they had.

[razorfire]

Galen is dead. Either the title passes or we get dynastic succession. Either way, Galen has no claim.

This isn't difficult - Galen is, by definiton, dead...therefore he cannot claim a title that passes to another when the holder dies.

Nor does it matter - Galen is dead. Galen is a Forsaken. The people of Arathi will NOT accept either as their King. So Galens only choice is to conquer them, kill them raise them

EJL

ok then, we'll use your argument. in the human leader short story varian dies and is brought back by anduin, varian's dead, he has no right to the throne of stormwind anymore and anduin does again. no one should accept him because for a brief moment he was dead and thus the only option that makes sense for him retaining the throne is killing everyone else and bringing them back. or perhaps you could stop pretending the darker side of resurrection isn't as valid as its bright and shiny twin and accept that if not for the visual effects and the change of loyalties you would be all in favor of it.

[Jaxi]

It shouldn't happen though. You Horde have been getting a lot so you should back off.

Preventing an opportunity for good lore because you want it to be exclusive to your faction is silly. I've never seen it as Alliance and Horde lore, I've always seen it as Warcraft lore. When something Alliance based happens that is rather interesting, I enjoy it even as a Horde player because at the end of the day I enjoy this game, not just my individual faction. You should start being a player of World of Warcraft, and not just a player of the Alliance. You'll end up enjoying this game a hell of a lot more.