Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Deleted]

So seems that some change is coming in 1 way shape or form in 5.4. From reading it seems that there gripe is that they dont want us doing our full max dps rotation all of the time but they dont mind us doing dps on the move.

KJC - maybe remove/reduce the speed reduction

destro - allow incinerate to be cast whilst moving, allows dps but not max, also have conflag when off cd then and generates secondary resourse in embers. sub 20% you switch to shadowburn anyway which is instant cast.

demo - shadowbolt, again allows dps on the move whilst not max you generate fury and you have the option of meta for movment aswell.

Affliction - drainsoul. Allows dps on the move whilst not max. Allows you to generate secondary resource in shards and the excecute would remain allowing you to move. You would also have the option to refresh agony/corruption if needed or get procs.

this would allow the playstyle to remain the same more or less, allows us to move without massive changes.

MF - have it effect all aoe except probably voidray, and have it only effect initial damage and not roll your dots on it ie. Immolate FNB and soulburn SoC, voidray corruption.


i would rather no change but i feel something is coming whetber we like it or not.

[Deleted]

really pissed off at the rain of fire change, i loved using that from day 1, never looked at guides since i can play my lock just fine, but i used rain of fire due to it adding more substance to the spec, yet idiots who felt they had to use it wanted it gone, really, people complain at added complexity and want it removed, if you couldnt use it, dont use it...

The problem with RoF is that you have to use a targetting reticle (I think that is what it is called) and that you have to place it with your mouse quite regularly, which can be annoying. Demonology had the exact same issue with Hand of Gul'dan early on in the beta (when it was placed on the ground rather than targetted) and they changed that and introduced a glyph (I think this glyph is still in the game, not sure though). I can see why they wouldn't want you to use it for a single target rotation and I don't mind it being removed to be honest. The change shouldn't affect AoE if they change it so that RoF still generates Embers if it hits more than 3 (6?) targets.

[xskarma]

5.4 PTR Patchnotes in German, no mention of KJC or MF change at all:

eu. battle. net/ wow/ de/blog/10158897#warlock

wat

Meh, could be any kind of reason, probably something to do with translations not being ready or soemthing. I don't doubt you'll get the details of these changes in German eventually, it's not like this means German realms won't get the changes.

[Deleted]

Blizzard.

Change KJC to make fillers castable while moving.
Keep MF as it is.
Buff/redesign AV.

Problem solved without changing fundamental Warlock mechanics. God damn it, stop changing mechanics. Fel Flame was so nice for questing as well...

[Szarala]

Pushback on Lei Shen is not a problem with a Roar or some own movement CD (depending on the duration of the phase and your positioning) and definitely not on Ji-Kun where you can just use your own Gateway to port back into the center.

and yet..

To make this very clear: When I talk about KjC being overpowered, I am not refering to the damage we gain from it, but to the fact that movement becomes a non-issue for Warlocks, without requiring any skill. It is overpowered in dealing with movement if you want to formulate it like this.

This is what I meant by tone. You mention additional steps and extra-class abilities in one breath to compensate for the movement penalty then go right back to calling it skill-less in the next.

Yes, I was unaware of your credentials, and maybe it's because of those that you seem to be insensitive to the play of those with less "skill" than yourself.

[Deleted]

The problem with RoF is that you have to use a targetting reticle (I think that is what it is called) and that you have to place it with your mouse quite regularly, which can be annoying. Demonology had the exact same issue with Hand of Gul'dan early on in the beta (when it was placed on the ground rather than targetted) and they changed that and introduced a glyph (I think this glyph is still in the game, not sure though). I can see why they wouldn't want you to use it for a single target rotation and I don't mind it being removed to be honest. The change shouldn't affect AoE if they change it so that RoF still generates Embers if it hits more than 3 (6?) targets.

it didnt matter though, you can develop play styles to get used to it more, i had it keybinded and had the mouse over just fine, you get used to a mechanic like that if you play it enough, comes with practice, that play style shouldnt be removed cos other people cant do it, its now binded to my mouse, i do have a multi button mouse, but its still doable with keybinds to keep up with it.

still really annoyed that people couldnt manage it and wanted it removed got it there way, thanks for a nerf and removed playstyle now

[Fennixx]

Blizzard.

Change KJC to make fillers castable while moving.
Keep MF as it is.
Buff/redesign AV.

Problem solved without changing fundamental Warlock mechanics.

As a dot class if your fillers are castable on the move, 80% of your spells are (only UA, Soulfire, Imo and CB are not fillers). That's why people get KJC in first place and thats why its overpowered. Malefic Grasp + KJC only emphasizes how this talent is OP.

[Deleted]

As a dot class if your fillers are castable on the move, 80% of your spells are (only UA, Soulfire, Imo and CB are not fillers). That's why people get KJC in first place and thats why its overpowered. Malefic Grasp + KJC only emphasizes how this talent is OP.

I'll ask again, since I must have asked 10 times in the past few days, can you name some fights where we use KJC and it results in us being overpowered, because no one else out of the many that claim it's OP have been able to name a single fight where we're dominating meters because of it.

[Deleted]

As a dot class if your fillers are castable on the move, 80% of your spells are (only UA, Soulfire, Imo and CB are not fillers). That's why people get KJC in first place and thats why its overpowered. Malefic Grasp + KJC only emphasizes how this talent is OP.

And how important are Haunt, UA, Soulfire, Imo and CB? Oh, pretty fucking important, I'd say. What I said would be a sensible nerf instead of stomping KJC into the ground, changing how the class works again and calling it a day.

[Szarala]

it didnt matter though, you can develop play styles to get used to it more, i had it keybinded and had the mouse over just fine, you get used to a mechanic like that if you play it enough, comes with practice, that play style shouldnt be removed cos other people cant do it, its now binded to my mouse, i do have a multi button mouse, but its still doable with keybinds to keep up with it.

still really annoyed that people couldnt manage it and wanted it removed got it there way, thanks for a nerf and removed playstyle now

Requiring the use of an AoE for a single target encounter shows a pretty clear mis-design, no?

[Rabidewok]

really pissed off at the rain of fire change, i loved using that from day 1, never looked at guides since i can play my lock just fine, but i used rain of fire due to it adding more substance to the spec, yet idiots who felt they had to use it wanted it gone, really, people complain at added complexity and want it removed, if you couldnt use it, dont use it...

Isn't that why they removed ISF?

[Fennixx]

I'll ask again, since I must have asked 10 times in the past few days, can you name some fights where we use KJC and it results in us being overpowered, because no one else out of the many that claim it's OP have been able to name a single fight where we're dominating meters because of it.

Apparently you can't think out of numbers. 100k, 150k, 200k, 250k, 10000000000000k.

Lol. It's a lost cause.

MOvement, which is the ONE and TRUE challenge to ranged dps, is dumbed down by KJC (no, snare is only an issue if you are stupid). Therefore KJC is OP.

[Spektroman]

Wow, this Fel Flame change is an insanely huge PvP nerf. We now have zero spells to use when being pressured as destro. What's next, a cast time on Conflagrate to make sure we have no instant spells at all? Meanwhile instant-proc starsurges for 100k+ are a thing. Mages get to keep ice lances for 60k+ in pvp and frostfire bolts for 70k with zero setup. Elemental shamans get to keep bursting people 100-0 in ascendance without me ever seeing a cast bar.

This change makes absolutely no sense to me.

[Deleted]

ISF was good fun, but it was a intended mechanic, the use of rain of fire isnt, that was pretty much down to play style, and again, you didnt need to use it, it wasnt a requirement for single target..., it was never a design element for single target to begin with, players just thought it was and wanted it removed cos they couldnt handle it, not like they needed to use it, cant see how the hell its a mis-design if its the players fault to begin with

[Deleted]

Apparently you can't think out of numbers. 100k, 150k, 200k, 250k, 10000000000000k.

Lol. It's a lost cause.

MOvement, which is the ONE and TRUE challenge to ranged dps, is dumbed down by KJC (no, snare is only an issue if you are stupid). Therefore KJC is OP.

A lost cause? This is the first time someones bothered to respond to my request for an explination as to why the talent is OP, kudos for bothering, but I'd appreciate a less snarky response to an honest question.

If you admit that it's not about numbers, and that our damage is generally in line with every other class, then surely you can also agree that KJC is a necessity, since despite it cutting out the mighty challenge that is movement, we're still only in line with everyone else.

I just struggle to fathom how someone can claim an ability is overpowered for letting us continue dpsing on the move, when said damage is not resulting in an increased performance.

[Deleted]

ISF was good fun, but it was a intended mechanic, the use of rain of fire isnt, that was pretty much down to play style, and again, you didnt need to use it, it wasnt a requirement for single target..., it was never a design element for single target to begin with, players just thought it was and wanted it removed cos they couldnt handle it, not like they needed to use it, cant see how the hell its a mis-design if its the players fault to begin with

You are talking out of your ass. RoF was a significant DPS increase on single target.

[Szarala]

I don't play destro so I don't know firsthand, but is it a significant dps increase to use RoF for single target? If it is, then yes, I'd call that a mis-design.

[Grizelda]

MOvement, which is the ONE and TRUE challenge to ranged dps, is dumbed down by KJC (no, snare is only an issue if you are stupid). Therefore KJC is OP.

I get what you're saying here. For example on Durumu:

We all know the maze has killed lots of people. It has been a challenge to move. It was more of a challenge to move while DPSing with a snare.

[Deleted]

annnndddd not many players could do it, doesnt mean it had to be removed as a result, dont you see the issue with that, i cant do it, so please remove it?

[Shadowygoodness]

Sneaky, sneaky Blizz trying to play off this castable FF with increased damage as some sort of buff, but we're well aware you won't buff FF to compete with Incinerate, so w/e buff to damage you give to FF won't be enough to make up for turning an already castable-on-the-move spell into an interruptable cast-on-the-move spell.