[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[Lethora]

also curious regarding how many stacks of Impale i should take on Iron qon, had a few tries last reset and i removed them around 4-5, do i dare take any more or is that the "Limit"?

I'm stacking up to 8-9 usually, but I have 2 holy paladins in raid (25H) who toss me HoPurs every cd, and I cover the rest of duration with my own cds and ShoR.

[Deleted]

lol at first read of the patch notes i was under the impression that they were completely replacing our current sacred shield with this new version, which would be quite some nerf!
Second read reveals that this is in addition to it - makes my mind boggle, apparently we need buffs!







Waiting for the inevitable tuning adjustments to bring us back in line (looking at you "old" sacred shield scaling).

---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 09:31 AM ----------

Also note the prot buff to sanctified wrath - reducing judgment cd by 100%, may actually start using that talent.

---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 09:33 AM ----------

also curious regarding how many stacks of Impale i should take on Iron qon, had a few tries last reset and i removed them around 4-5, do i dare take any more or is that the "Limit"?

bubble going into the windstorm. bubble again when going into last phase. this leaves you hop to reset stacks during last phase. HoPurity is win.

[Deleted]

Also note the prot buff to sanctified wrath - reducing judgment cd by 100%, may actually start using that talent.

What do you mean start?!?!?!?

Jokes aside, it is not really a huge buff to HoPo regeneration with SW, it does however bring it more on par in terms of damage. Maybe it will be time for me to start dusting SW off again, have been using DP 100% lately.

On a completely unrelated topic, have anyone have any luck soloing maloriak? I am finding his enrage to be too short, hitting it on 30-40%~. If only his enrage was a few min longer or my gear was better, it would have been possible to kill him. Not sure if I am missing some obvious tactic to kill him here but at the moment he is pissing me off. The fight itself is great! One of the most fun solo fights imo, needs really good execution however it is just boring how "impossible" it is.

[xebtria]

Like anyone had problem with threat in the pull :S

just for the sake of doing it.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

What do you mean start?!?!?!?

Jokes aside, it is not really a huge buff to HoPo regeneration with SW, it does however bring it more on par in terms of damage. Maybe it will be time for me to start dusting SW off again, have been using DP 100% lately.

On a completely unrelated topic, have anyone have any luck soloing maloriak? I am finding his enrage to be too short, hitting it on 30-40%~. If only his enrage was a few min longer or my gear was better, it would have been possible to kill him. Not sure if I am missing some obvious tactic to kill him here but at the moment he is pissing me off. The fight itself is great! One of the most fun solo fights imo, needs really good execution however it is just boring how "impossible" it is.

You really need an offensive magic dispel for Maloriak, the heal is huge.

[Deleted]

You really need an offensive magic dispel for Maloriak, the heal is huge.

It is only slightly above 1 million in normal. If I managed to dps it down to 35% now, it will for sure be killable in T16 gear.
I actually gave heroic an attempt instead of normal (due to longer enrage timer) and it did not seem that bad. The black phase was easy but the red phase kept raping me since the breaths deals 850k instead of 400k damage, but with a bit of tactic tuning heroic should not be impossible.

[zloitima]

the taunt change is designer, so the 1st tank will not get aggro from the boss because of of the vengeance he has, and give the 2nd tank time to build some

[Fhi]

the taunt change is designer, so the 1st tank will not get aggro from the boss because of of the vengeance he has, and give the 2nd tank time to build some

Indirect monk buff too. >.> Now my co-tank can switch taunts without me going slow.

[Promdates]

The only problem I have with SW change, is it still requires you to use Avenging Wrath every 3 minutes. Very good bursty dps increase, gonna have to see how it compares with higher haste levels against DP.

[Deleted]

In my experience it's more like the other way round.
Solo tanking it as a pally doesn't take that much - while kiting as a BrM means 1 fail = wipe and you also have to deal with lags later on.

It was a humbling experience to say the least.
Felt like one fuckup from me and it was just a matter of time before it spiraled outta control.
After some arguments about alts we decided to go with brm and me on warrior next raid.

I'll be back for durumu :P

[Nairobi]

The only problem I have with SW change, is it still requires you to use Avenging Wrath every 3 minutes. Very good bursty dps increase, gonna have to see how it compares with higher haste levels against DP.

Hmm, but doesn't haste now DE-value SW? Since under SW you have no CD on J whether you have 0 haste or 21k. And, assuming here, you'll just be spamming J til your fingers bleed, weaving in ShotR as needed, so reduced ability CD's from SOB don't matter either. I'm not saying it's not a valid playstyle or that it's not a buff to the talent (it is)...just that it's kinda counter to what we're doing.

HA scales linearly (exponentially?) with haste: more HoPo-gen's cast due to SoB means more 3x HoPo gained, means more ShotR/throughput as haste increases, with no limit or cap on value until CS is a 1sec CD.

DP scales exponentially with haste: More ShotR's cast means 25% more procs every time.

SW now gains nothing from haste.

Just seems...odd.

[Nillo]

You still get a faster gcd => more J under SW.
Also why do you think dp scales exponentially with haste °_°

[Nairobi]

You still get a faster gcd => more J under SW.
Also why do you think dp scales exponentially with haste °_°

Meh, fair I guess, but I'm saying that holding haste values equal for all 3 talent choices, SW does not benefit outside of the GCD, which affects all talent choices equally.

And I just picked a math word. I should be working, but trying to keep up on changes, and didn't feel like thinking about log vs expo vs linear. I just figured it wasn't linear, and went with expo. Feel free to correct and I'll edit the post.

[Promdates]

With 40% haste, you have a 1.07 gcd roughly right? (1.5/(1+haste%). So for the 30 seconds that you have AW up, that's 28 holy power you gain or roughly 9 SotR. Granted, if you have the 4pT16 bonus that's even more HoPo gained, at the cost of a few judges. Just looking at that, that could push me to using SW on longer fights.

[Nillo]

It's linear ~
Say you get 30 hp base per minute. That's 10 ShoR which ends up giving you 2.5 DP procs (3.3 after taking cascades into account)
Now with 50% haste you get 45 HP, 15 ShoR and 3.75 DP procs. (5 after taking cascades into account)


Can't really think of many things in wow that are nonlinear.

[Nairobi]

It's linear ~
Say you get 30 hp base per minute. That's 10 ShoR which ends up giving you 2.5 DP procs (3.3 after taking cascades into account)
Now with 50% haste you get 45 HP, 15 ShoR and 3.75 DP procs. (5 after taking cascades into account)

Hmm, I guess thats accurate. When thinking about it earlier, I assumed it would scale non-linearly because of the "proc-off-proc" from DP.

Can't really think of many things in wow that are nonlinear.

Armor and armor pen (RIP)?

ANYWHO. OT: I guess I'll just never get the fascination with SW. Maybe I've just not used it enough, since I don't opt to run it for ret or prot ever unless I need to do ranged dmg (like on Razorgrin). Maybe there will be a niche fight for it, but given that it's tied to a three min CD, it just seems underwhelming.

Those extra 9 ShotR's every 3 mins just don't excite me. Maybe the damage increase (and healing) is enough to be useful, but even so, the CD is a bit long for me (personally).

Looking at HA, with 40% haste, you're getting ~12 ShotRs in those 18 seconds, and that's every 2 minutes: 50% more casts and 50% more often. Sure you lose the extra 10 seconds of 20% dmg/heal, but it's not like you lose AW altogether. Plus, it still functions amazingly well as an actual cooldown.

Or DP, averaging ~4+ spare casts per minute passively. That's more than SW gives, but less than HA (on an average, per-minute basis), but can obviously RNG higher or lower.

Maybe I'm just missing something.

[Deleted]

Sacred Shield

Regarding Sacred Shield, we tried giving the talent as a baseline ability to Protection, but we’re unhappy with that experiment and are likely to revert the change. We agree that the current (old) version of Sacred Shield is more attractive to Holy than the (new) version. We also would likely have to nerf Protection to compensate for getting Holy Shield in addition to another talent. Overall, we think the current (old) version of Sacred Shield is a better design. Perhaps we can still make Sacred Shield more attractive for Holy and Retribution, and make the other two talents (Selfless Healer, Eternal Flame) more attractive to Protection.

From one of the latest blue posts. Oh well, the PTR is an experiment after all! I wonder how they'll make Selfless Healer and Eternal Flame more attractive to tanks?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Overheal is converted into an absorb shield?

[trystero]

From one of the latest blue posts. Oh well, the PTR is an experiment after all! I wonder how they'll make Selfless Healer and Eternal Flame more attractive to tanks?

I don't see how they can. They need to understand how damage in this game works and what the role of a tank really is.

SH for a tank is a farce. We're tanks, designed to mitigate our own damage, not heal the raid. That's why we have healers. I'd never dream of wasting a global that I could be using to generate Holy Power or to output damage so that I could heal random raid members.

EF for a tank doesn't square with the way damage presents itself. We get hit by a 350k melee swing and then an 800k boss special. We need to stop that damage from registering, not allow it to happen, cross our fingers that we don't die, and then cast a HoT - a spell which incidentally consumes the resource we NEED for SotR. It's the same problem our designers have with Dodge/Parry.

They're right, though, that the current design of SS is good. It's logical and introduces more skill into the spec. It's a buff that needs to not only be tracked for duration but also for magnitude. A paladin may even be good at maintaining a strong (90%+) SS uptime but terrible at refreshing it when it's the most advantageous. And to anyone who says, "Yea, really skillful, hit a button every 30 seconds," I point them toward WoL where sub 50% uptimes ABOUND, and I really doubt most players pay any attention whatsoever to when it is refreshed. "Oh, SS is down" they notice after a 2 minute gap and refresh it right before taunting the boss, not refreshing it for another minute. When used right, it's a powerful tool, as it should be.

[Deleted]

The thing about EF is that it's already better HPS than SS, but outside of soloing that just doesn't matter because preventing damage is better than healing it up. Truth be told I love EF how it is currently because you can survive vengeance cap in old content with it.

Also lol at selfless healer.