Riposte - some early thoughts

[Deleted]

Looking at the recent changes to Ultimatum (only proccing from critical SB instead of 30% flat chance) i think once again that they intended a different version for Riposte with the actual percent chances instead of rating.

You'd need to be sitting at 24k avoidance rating (and 100% riposte uptime) to get to the same procc chance as of today (5% base, 5% raidbuff), assuming that the change is intended as a buff. With half that rating (=12k) it's a give or take of nothing (half the chance, almost twice the damage).

I'd like to see it as passive as well, but simply disabled for instanced pvp.

[Deleted]

On 5.4 it's a 100% crit, so although you would need that rating to equal the proc chance, to get the equivalent damage you don't need that much. If now if it's 30% chance to proc and 10% to crit, even without stacking crit with riposte you would have around ~15% chance to proc and 100% to crit, which leaves almost at the same point of DPS.

I don't think they are going for riposte with % instead of rating. The idea behind seems to be to let avoidance have a place on your gear. If you go with % you get much more crit, but you scale worse with gearing avoidance (if they give 50% of 1%, they give you 300 crit for each 1000 avoidance you gear, getting worse and worse the more you have. If they give it with rating, they give you 500 crit for each 1000 avoidance you gear). So it's ok that it scales with rating, as long as we get some more base oomph going.

Specially because it will probably be fairly hard to try and gear crit while avoiding haste, which still is a 0 value stat. If I have to gear avoidance, let it be as worth as possible.

PD: 2pc heal can crit, so when you crit that heal, only 4% of the damage comes through, and you basically have blocked+instahealed the other 96%. Yeah, going mastery crit, I think.

[meathead]

From the look of the patch notes, it looks like Riposte is a general warrior/DK ability, not just prot/Blood.
In which case it will more than likely take our dodge/parry rating and not your percent else you'll see arms/fury warriors pulling funny stunts with taunt and die by the sword for a pseudo-recklessness buff.

yeah from what i have read i think its all warrior and dk specs,not just prot.

[Deleted]

It's a prot/blood spec only passive.

[Alonzo33]

is riposte gives the amount of rating or %?
.. if rating , so how much it would give? i thought it will be around 15% crit ... but i guess im wrong.

[Ashenia]

Look about 4-5 posts above yours. It gives ratings, with my gear it was around 10,35% crit (without baseline 5%) and like Espada said, its only for protection spec, you are not getting it as any other.

[Alonzo33]

Look about 4-5 posts above yours. It gives ratings, with my gear it was around 10,35% crit (without baseline 5%) and like Espada said, its only for protection spec, you are not getting it as any other.

i saw what Espada wrote. i guess its kinda sucks... we will still be behind all the other tank specs by far.

[Emenius]

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...57146326859778

[Ashenia]

Seriously 30%? How he is counting it if mostly I did get ~20/23 raid buffed (ilvl 540). Maybe it's 30% for T16 geared people?

[Deleted]

I was already curious when i read the patchnotes, (from twitter, linked two posts above)
"We're estimating ~30% crit for raid tanks, which means Ultimatum should proc more often."
& (from the bluepost yesterday)
"Ultimatum now activates from critical hits with Shield Slam instead of a flat 20% chance, and the ability will make the next Heroic Strike or Cleave be a critical hit in addition to costing no Rage."

But both ingame tooltip and experience (logs) tell us that it's already 30% on the live servers???

Concerning the 30% crit raidbuffed: we gain about 15-20% more stats each tier in this expansion and we're naturally capped on mastery via crit block (after that point we only get a measly addition to our normal block chance). Base crit block chance is 17.6%, each ~273 mastery add +1% critical block chance. So our goal should be (100-17.6)*273= 22.495 mastery. Now don't forget about raidbuffs, the mastery buff adds +3k flat. This brings us down to 19.495, far more managable

Excluding trinkets i'm sitting at 29.750 secondary stats currently (ilvl ~ 540), so next tier i should reach ~36k (+20%), not counting on the legendary questline cloak, epic gems or some wiggle room with enchants... minus 7.650 for connecting all styles (hit+exp). So we probably don't even need very well itemised items (mastery/x) to reach our goal and we can still use trinkets with secondary stats as bandaids until we're decked out with heroic raiding gear.

Well i should make my point, 36-(7.6k+19.5k) is only ~ 9k avoidance rating (less than i've currently, ha!) or 4.5k crit rating or 7.5%. If they calculate with almost *all* secondary stats except for hit/exp (28k), yes then we can get a ton of crit chance (up to +23%). But at what cost? Do they want us to avoid mastery, spamming barrier instead?

I don't think they are going for riposte with % instead of rating. The idea behind seems to be to let avoidance have a place on your gear. If you go with % you get much more crit, but you scale worse with gearing avoidance (if they give 50% of 1%, they give you 300 crit for each 1000 avoidance you gear, getting worse and worse the more you have. If they give it with rating, they give you 500 crit for each 1000 avoidance you gear). So it's ok that it scales with rating, as long as we get some more base oomph going.

That's a really good point, didn't think about DR.

[WarTV]

It's a prot/blood spec only passive.

doesn't say that on the patch notes.
any official tweet / post ?

[Ashenia]

It is like that on PTR I can assure you about it.

[Mefistophelis]

Sorry ... but in the patch notes it's in "General Abilities" and I guess that's where it belongs . damaging specs will benefit from this too .

[Trubo]

Sorry ... but in the patch notes it's in "General Abilities" and I guess that's where it belongs . damaging specs will benefit from this too .

It's a typo. Try searching WoWhead's PTR database and you'll see there are only two versions available to players, Blood Death Knight and Protection Warrior.

[Mefistophelis]

WTF ... official page says "General Ability Learned at 77 level"

[Valech]

It would make no sense from a classdesign´s point of view to make furys profit vom pary.

[Trubo]

WTF ... official page says "General Ability Learned at 77 level"

Because patch notes are always 100% correct.

Even if Arms/Fury got Riposte it'd be worthless for them while it requires actual Parry and Dodge RATING since, hey oh, no Fury/Arms warrior stacks Dodge or Parry.

[alucardtnuoc]

Durumu is a great example. If you use a warrior or death knight, you're gonna need two tanks.

Serious Wound duration: 60 seconds
Disintegration Beam duration: 60 seconds

From a worst case scenario, you're looking at 100 (120-20) seconds of downtime on Riposte and even more if you're not the one who taunts him after the beam ends.

It was created to mimic monks, paladins and guardians use of offensive stats. Theirs are 100% passive so why can't ours be aswell? How are they ever going to achieve a somewhat decent balance if they keep adding these restrictions?
It does indeed boost our damage but it also creates an annoyance factor where you have to taunt bosses between debuffs when you're not tanking to maintain it.

I actually suspect it has a 20 second duration because of PvP. They can prevent buffs from triggering (i.e. Vengeance) but not actual stats so I bet that's the reason for not making it passive.

Solo tanked HC durumu with a DK.

Everyone loses a SHIT TON of dps when they lose vengeance, which if you didn't know, also goes away after 20 seconds (or drops to a measly ~20k due to inconsequential raid damage)

@trubo, they get a passive 5% dodge and parry scales with str.

[Trubo]

Solo tanked HC durumu with a DK.

Everyone loses a SHIT TON of dps when they lose vengeance, which if you didn't know, also goes away after 20 seconds (or drops to a measly ~20k due to inconsequential raid damage)

@trubo, they get a passive 5% dodge and parry scales with str.

What part of RATING not being the same thing as PERCENTAGE are people not understanding? Riposte works off the former, Arms/Fury only has access to the later via Strength-to-Parry (effects percentage, does not increase rating) and the default 5% Dodge chance. As Riposte currently works Arms and Fury would get zero Crit since they have zero Dodge and Parry rating.

[alucardtnuoc]

What part of RATING not being the same thing as PERCENTAGE are people not understanding? Riposte works off the former, Arms/Fury only has access to the later via Strength-to-Parry (effects percentage, does not increase rating) and the default 5% Dodge chance. As Riposte currently works Arms and Fury would get zero Crit since they have zero Dodge and Parry rating.

You seem mad, are you mad. Typing in bold, underline and italics would make it seem so, instead of being a raging teenager you can easily say "It's been changed to work off of rating and not percentages" or "I said rating in my previous post, not percentage"

Was responding to someones post, and saw yours above mine. No need to get your panties in a twist.