Priest "From darkness comes light" talent

[Deleted]

Does FDCL still have that ICD on it? I could have sworn I got a double proc last reset when I spec'd it to spice things up, but I could have just blinked.

[Frmercury]

Alright it seems to me that if we three are to be on the same page I should be more specific than I have been in some of my posts.

1) MSp and MB are the only two Shadow abilities that do not DIRECTLY benefit from Mastery.
2) SW: P, VT, DP, MF and MS all benefit directly from Crit, Haste and Mastery.
3) Stacking Mastery is more effective point : percent than stacking Crit.

Looking forward to T16 where we will have 16% Crit, 18.2k Haste and 35%+ Mastery this makes relative value of a GCD spent on spells that don't benefit from all three as attractive as using them on a spell that does benefit from all three, worse still is that spells not benefiting from all three only benefit from our relatively weakest stat.

* FDCL and DI both scale with Haste and Mastery, but not Crit.
* FDCL MSp procs only benefit from Crit
* DI MB procs only benefit from Crit, but as SO generators they increase DP which benefits from all 3 Stats

This all culminates in my conclusion that FDCL as a talent that allows free, instant and non-DoT wiping MSp's will continue to fall short as an option because of MSp. If it was not tied solely to MSp or we had less secondary stats, then yeah it could be a viable talent.

As of now though FDCL is arse for Shadow on its own merits.

---------- Post added 2013-06-21 at 12:35 PM ----------

Does FDCL still have that ICD on it? I could have sworn I got a double proc last reset when I spec'd it to spice things up, but I could have just blinked.

The stealth ICD insertion was followed by a stealth ICD extraction. It was dumb.

[Deleted]

aye, I had no idea it got removed.
a little test showed this though;
http://imgur.com/G6k2YvV

for anyone that cares.

I'm not sure how important fdcl scaling with all secondary stats actually matters. It scales pretty well with int, especially with the +50% damage component, it still hits like a truck. And as mentioned elsewhere all the stats benefit the talent either through more procs or harder hitting spikes. I think the point is, if you could replace every mind flay cast with either instant spikes, or SW: I, then spamming the fdcl procs would yield more dps. So at what point does the amount of procs outweigh insanity? I do think it could get some more use even in the current tier, a fight like council if all 4 died around the same time I think could favour fdcl. Obviously fdcl offers more movement, however you still rely on getting the procs so single target movement is unreliable to be any increase in short bursts of movement.

[Cerbz]

Insanity is cool an all in terms of it being the only thing that keeps us somewhat on par with other classes on single target fights, but I still don't understand why some people think it's one of the best things to happen to Shadow. It's just a buffed Mind Flay *shrug* I suppose I'd like it more if the spell animation for it wasn't so....weak looking. I'm tired of using Insanity every single fight, it's boring.

[Spinalcrack]

Really, FDCL should just be completely removed / redone.

One idea is to make Mind Spike instant cast and no longer remove dots baseline, but have it only castable on targets with VT and SWP already on them. Take it off the global cooldown and reduce the damage to be roughly how hard SWP when it lands hits, and it should cost quite a bit of mana.

This would give us something to cast on the move (and possibly weave into the rotation on single target provided mana could keep up), without giving up globals and allow us a new talent to keep pace with Insanity that will actually scale properly. It won't be overpowered due to the mana cost and damage adjustment.

Shadow priest heroic strike if you will. This is just one quick idea, and I'm sure there are lots more out there, but it needs a change.

[veiledy0]

One idea is to make Mind Spike instant cast and no longer remove dots baseline, but have it only castable on targets with VT and SWP already on them. Take it off the global cooldown

Instant cast spell that has no CD being off GCD? Ye, totally..

[Spinalcrack]

Instant cast spell that has no CD being off GCD? Ye, totally..

Ya with a very high mana cost, the other dots being on the target as a requirement and only hitting as hard as instant swp damage, it won't be spamable... at least not for very long.

Plus it's just one quick idea. Lots of ways to ensure it's not op. Maybe give it three charges only, that reset when DP is cast? One charge per orb consumed kind of thing.

But I can tell you what won't work for sure... just leaving FDCL in it's current form, or just slighting tweaking it. It and Mind Spike in general won't see regular usage for the rest of MoP.

[snaxattax]

increasing the proc rate on FDCL does basically nothing. increasing the stack cap, however, would do something both for the talent as well as giving shadow an actual resource for mobility dps (and would also fix most of our mana problems, as they tend to arise in mobility dps scenarios as well).

[veiledy0]

Ya with a very high mana cost, the other dots being on the target as a requirement and only hitting as hard as instant swp damage, it won't be spamable... at least not for very long.

Plus it's just one quick idea. Lots of ways to ensure it's not op. Maybe give it three charges only, that reset when DP is cast?

But I can tell you what won't work for sure... just leaving FDCL in it's current form, or just slighting tweaking it. It and Mind Spike in general won't see regular usage for the rest of MoP.

Why not just lower MSpike's DPET just bellow Mind Flay's, make it castable on the move and not remove dots then.
I mean your suggestions do sound way more fun, but they're also more demanding, and blizz has proven us more than once that all they wanna do with this game since WotLK is make it retardproof.

[Spinalcrack]

Why not just lower MSpike's DPET just bellow Mind Flay's, make it castable on the move and not remove dots then.
I mean your suggestions do sound way more fun, but they're also more demanding, and blizz has proven us more than once that all they wanna do with this game since WotLK is make it retardproof.

lol, ya. That suggestion would be fine too. I just think FDCL should go away, and Mind Spike should become our filler on the move ability, and give us a new talent in FDCL's place. Mind spike's always just been so clunky, and the nuke low health mobs design was never that great. Needs to find its place.

[Deleted]

Would it make sense to change FDCL to something equivalent to Kil'jaeden's Cunning? Perhaps not with the channeling mechanic, but by adding a movement penalty while increasing the procrate by xx and whatnot. Would balance it out in PvP while making it somewhat viable in PVE. Might be a stupid suggestion but bored enough to throw it out there.

[Noradin]

Why not just lower MSpike's DPET just bellow Mind Flay's, make it castable on the move and not remove dots then.
I mean your suggestions do sound way more fun, but they're also more demanding, and blizz has proven us more than once that all they wanna do with this game since WotLK is make it retardproof.

Removing dots is the only thing it is good for without FDCL right now.

[Deleted]

I just wish every talent would be given it's own use for each situation instead of being so useless that some talents end up being weak in fights where they are supposed to be strong. Then constantly switching on a semi-permanent basis everytime Blizzard buff / nerf the talents. PI used to be the plague talent, then it got buffed and it's used in most fights. Then Insanity came along and now FDCL is never used, even in multi-dot fights where it should be good (but still isn't). I'd much rather have to evaluate the fight to make my choice of talent rather than look it up on Twintop's blogs or simcraft or whatever and find the same talents are still stronger.

Oh hey look a new fight! What talent should I use JK NEVERMIND ITS SW:I / PI COMBO AGAIN #forevermindflaying

[Frmercury]

Actually as we hit these high levels of Haste Solace and Insanity + Divine Insight is a very powerful combo.

[Deleted]

Actually as we hit these high levels of Haste Solace and Insanity + Divine Insight is a very powerful combo.

Whichever, my point is that the talent you use should be about the mechanics and type of fight, not about which one does more dps in every situation.

I thought that was the original intent of the talents and at the beginning of the expansion it was kinda looking that way, then some talents became grossly overtuned (Insanity) and so now that is the go to talent for pretty much every fight.

The thing with FDCL that I see is that people would like that talent to be buffed and have that be the "go-to" talent. I'm not sure any talent should be that way, but it would be nice to have something to use that would suit high movement fights.

[Frmercury]

It would be nice to have at least two viable talent choices on every tier.

[veiledy0]

I just wish every talent would be given it's own use for each situation instead of being so useless that some talents end up being weak in fights where they are supposed to be strong. Then constantly switching on a semi-permanent basis everytime Blizzard buff / nerf the talents. PI used to be the plague talent, then it got buffed and it's used in most fights. Then Insanity came along and now FDCL is never used, even in multi-dot fights where it should be good (but still isn't). I'd much rather have to evaluate the fight to make my choice of talent rather than look it up on Twintop's blogs or simcraft or whatever and find the same talents are still stronger.

Oh hey look a new fight! What talent should I use JK NEVERMIND ITS SW:I / PI COMBO AGAIN #forevermindflaying

Actually I think T5 is our only talent tier which is balanced.

For example, on most fights where you pick PI you do it because it aligns with other buffs which you gain throughout the fight (Jin'Rokh pools / Ji'Kun food thingy). You also take it on Durumu where you need burst damage on walls, and Iron Qon 'cause the fight itself doesn't involve a lot of movement, and your 3rd use of PI aligns with all 4 bosses being up, which is really cool, as you're picking the talent because of the way fight works.

You also pick ToF on Horridon, Council (tho DI is an option as well) and Primordius, because of the amount of adds you have throughout the fight, which again was what the talent is supposed to be used for.

On all other fights you go with DI, 'cause they don't have fight specific buffs, close to no adds, and include movement.

Same could pretty much be said about our T6 talents as well. Now if only our T3 talents could be that well balanced, it would be perfect.

[Mctriple]

FDCL is very boring. Let's not turn into frost mages playing whack-a-mole for our rotation. I'd much rather they added a move-while-channeling aspect to MF:I than buff FDCL. It would be a lot more interesting to decide if you want to use 1-2 orbs for movement or save them til 3 and do something else during movement.