Glyph of the Alabaster Shield Nerf, Lets talk?

[Burnick]

Glyph of the Alabaster Shield now increases damage for the next Shield of the Righteous by 10% per stack (down from 20% per stack).

So with this change coming, Some questions I have about this is

How do you guys feel about it?

How do my prot paladin friends believe it'll affect our damge out put, Especially for us who stack haste.

What glyph do you think we should use to replace it if it shows a significant enough decrease?

And do you think they might nerf haste in 5.4 even thou it will hurt MANY MANY people who play prot paladin?
(Every paladin I see stacks haste, So a very large number of paladins would be affected greatly by this)

[Deja Thoris]

It's probably a justified change.

I doubt it will "hurt" anyone, it will reduce our output slightly. Yay for balance.

[Dracodraco]

Comming from a completly neutral PoV (I don't even play a paladin or any other tank) -
It's a justified change. Paladins output vs damage taken this tier has been completly out of control.
Using Ra Den 25 heroic, the hardest hitting boss that has been in the game, these are the numbers we see from the rank 1 paladin, brewmaster, warrior and bear druid (DK's can't really tank ra den, so excluded them).

Damage taken:
Brewmaster: 260K per second.
Paladin: 141K per second.
Druid: 173K per second.
Warrior: 160K per second.

Damage done per second:
Brewmaster: 547K.
Paladin: 531K.
Druid: 415K.
Warrior: 381K.

Simply put, paladins are only beat by brewmasters in terms of output on this fight (which is singletarget), but that's by less than 5%, and brewmasters take almost double the damage of a paladin.
Druid and Warriors are left completly out of the loop compared to those two classes, but even between monk and paladin, paladin brings raid utility that monk doesn't (Devo aura, various Hands), AND takes far less dmg than the monk.

So... Yea. Expect Monks to also recieve some "balancing" nerfs, it is completly justified for paladins.

(On another note - with the new 30/50% vengeance cap, monks and paladins might end up fixing "themselves" in terms of damage output. I don't know how often they go above those vengeance caps in current content, but as both classes stack yellow gems instead of stamina, while DK's/Warriors stack stam, it means that their vengeance caps will automatically be lower than those of DK/Warr due to healthpool).

[Deleted]

Well, alabaster shield has not even been our best dps glyph this tier, so this is nothing really major, I have not been using is on several fights and still scoring rank 1's.

Also how do you figure it will hurt haste tanks as AS does not scale with haste at all? It scales with mastery.
Its actually the only dps glyph that do not scale with haste at all.

All in all, this glyph change is really minor, the only impact it has is to diminsh the value of it on multi target tanking since it was insane when you had Tortos bats on you and similar fights.

So all in all, a really minor change, only signifcant change for abusing multiple mobs, which imo is justified.

[mistahwilshire]

Prot Paladins are about as broken at tanking as Warlocks were at DPSing. Nerfs are completely justified. My protadin alt does way too much damage in his very average gear while also surviving absurd amounts of damage.

[Deleted]

(On another note - with the new 30/50% vengeance cap, monks and paladins might end up fixing "themselves" in terms of damage output. I don't know how often they go above those vengeance caps in current content, but as both classes stack yellow gems instead of stamina, while DK's/Warriors stack stam, it means that their vengeance caps will automatically be lower than those of DK/Warr due to healthpool).

Very rarely hit 30% as a prot paladin. Only on some specific fights.

[Thyranne]

The funny thing is, they are nerfing our damage and buffing brewmaster damage.

[Belloc]

The funny thing is, they are nerfing our damage and buffing brewmaster damage.

Even funnier, 5.4 isn't anywhere near ready and anything and everything can change!

[Thyranne]

Even funnier, 5.4 isn't anywhere near ready and anything and everything can change!

Even funnier, this is the moment for feedback.

[Burnick]

The funny thing is, they are nerfing our damage and buffing brewmaster damage.

They've only nerfed our Alabaster shield so far, nothing else has been touched, But with what Firefly said, Ya looking at it I almost ALWAYS use focus shield glyph, cause as a paladin tank for my guild and main tank, I am always solo target tanking (Except tortos where I do bats)
And Focus Shield is simply better for that. (Avenger shield hits 2 fewer targets 30% damage increase or w.e).

[Thyranne]

They've only nerfed our Alabaster shield so far, nothing else has been touched, But with what Firefly said, Ya looking at it I almost ALWAYS use focus shield glyph, cause as a paladin tank for my guild and main tank, I am always solo target tanking (Except tortos where I do bats)
And Focus Shield is simply better for that. (Avenger shield hits 2 fewer targets 30% damage increase or w.e).

It is indeed better. I'm just worried about challenge modes. I only use this glyph on Council Heroic.

[Burnick]

Comming from a completly neutral PoV (I don't even play a paladin or any other tank) -
It's a justified change. Paladins output vs damage taken this tier has been completly out of control.
Using Ra Den 25 heroic, the hardest hitting boss that has been in the game, these are the numbers we see from the rank 1 paladin, brewmaster, warrior and bear druid (DK's can't really tank ra den, so excluded them).

Damage taken:
Brewmaster: 260K per second.
Paladin: 141K per second.
Druid: 173K per second.
Warrior: 160K per second.

Damage done per second:
Brewmaster: 547K.
Paladin: 531K.
Druid: 415K.
Warrior: 381K.

Simply put, paladins are only beat by brewmasters in terms of output on this fight (which is singletarget), but that's by less than 5%, and brewmasters take almost double the damage of a paladin.
Druid and Warriors are left completly out of the loop compared to those two classes, but even between monk and paladin, paladin brings raid utility that monk doesn't (Devo aura, various Hands), AND takes far less dmg than the monk.

So... Yea. Expect Monks to also recieve some "balancing" nerfs, it is completly justified for paladins.

(On another note - with the new 30/50% vengeance cap, monks and paladins might end up fixing "themselves" in terms of damage output. I don't know how often they go above those vengeance caps in current content, but as both classes stack yellow gems instead of stamina, while DK's/Warriors stack stam, it means that their vengeance caps will automatically be lower than those of DK/Warr due to healthpool).

They have not yet nerfed vengeance, it's at least no where in their patch notes that they have. They said it will either be 5.4 or well into the future (next expansion) that it happens. If they've already done gimmie a link to the post showing so, I'd like to see it.

Also if you believe paladins need a nerf, Surely you haven't seen this.

[Nillo]

Also if you believe paladins need a nerf, Surely you haven't seen this.

If you think the ability to solo stuff requires a nerf to an already underpowered tank you should just quit the game.

[Thyranne]

If you think the ability to solo stuff requires a nerf to an already underpowered tank you should just quit the game.

I agree. Dks don't need nerfs. Warriors do need some damage buff.

[Burnick]

If you think the ability to solo stuff requires a nerf to an already underpowered tank you should just quit the game.

He is soloing a boss, which was just last tier, If it was last expansion sure why the hell not. But to be the just the previous tier? Ya totally
underpowered.

But warriors and druids do both need to be highly buffed, From what I've seen from most druid tanks is they are incredibly squishy and then most warrior tanks... well don't exist

[Thyranne]

He is soloing a boss, which was just last tier, If it was last expansion sure why the hell not. But to be the just the previous tier? Ya totally
underpowered.

But warriors and druids do both need to be highly buffed, From what I've seen from most druid tanks is they are incredibly squishy and then most warrior tanks... well don't exist

Actually he's using an exploit to get a buff from Lei Shi.

[Raugnaut]

(On another note - with the new 30/50% vengeance cap, monks and paladins might end up fixing "themselves" in terms of damage output. I don't know how often they go above those vengeance caps in current content, but as both classes stack yellow gems instead of stamina, while DK's/Warriors stack stam, it means that their vengeance caps will automatically be lower than those of DK/Warr due to healthpool).

The 30/50% vengeance cap hasn't been implemented yet on the PTRs to my knowledge.

[Exeris]

Even funnier, this is the moment for feedback.

Might want to head over to the ptr forums for that and don't forget that dps is adjusted at the end on the ptr cycle.

[Nillo]

He is soloing a boss, which was just last tier, If it was last expansion sure why the hell not. But to be the just the previous tier? Ya totally
underpowered.

Just quit it already - you seriously have no clue about the current state of tank balance.
DKs are good because they can completely negate anything up to about 80k vengeance worth of damage (as in last tier's normal mode bosses .... duh) , but at around 50% higher than that threshold their mitigation is pretty much useless compared to other tanks.

[Raugnaut]

He is soloing a boss, which was just last tier, If it was last expansion sure why the hell not. But to be the just the previous tier? Ya totally
underpowered.

But warriors and druids do both need to be highly buffed, From what I've seen from most druid tanks is they are incredibly squishy and then most warrior tanks... well don't exist

Alysrazor was solod by various mages/priests while it was CURRENT tier. NOT past tier, CURRENT tier. The mechanics behind that STILL have not been fixed.

In addition, this guy solod Omnitron during FL, if im not mistaken (Or was it Mionelol? cant remember).

So, nothing really big here.