Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Ciremyk]

My Chaos wave on mastery build crits for something in the 300k window, adding immo aura, Fel/Wrath Storm, Void, Carrion Swarm

Its stretching abit saying SOC is the best burst AOE, SOC with SB can be one of the best mass AOE on targets that have alot of HP, but we never see that happen

Your chaos wave is not spammable, we are talking about mannoroth fury, so let's consider 10seconds windows. if you can spam SoC for atleast half of the duration of MF you will outdeal demo and destro for sure and with far less contraint. ( keep HoG charges, move-to the pet, being in short range for carrion/void ray )

[Teye]

Wait, is this conversation really happening? Aff out AoE Demo in a 10 second period? I literally can't react to that statement without getting infracted.

[Deleted]

Remember Aff will deal 100% more damage in burst AoE in 5.4.

[Deleted]

Wait, is this conversation really happening? Aff out AoE Demo in a 10 second period? I literally can't react to that statement without getting infracted.

My thoughts exactly^

No matter how strong Mannoroth's for Affiction it will never get stronger than demo in burst aoe.

[Ciremyk]

its a 5.4 thread no ? have you ever tested ptr ? you dont seems to.

Wait for the next nazgrim test, load out your aff spec with MF, spam SoC, Enjoy your 5M burst.

[Deleted]

Im sure if you are the only dps hitting them you would do semi reasonable damage, but seen as they die in literally 3 globals vs a decent group that would go under the category of 'burst' aoe and that isint where affiction is going to shine.

For that pull specifically Destro and Demo really shit on Affi (they really do die far to fast) + Affi doesnt have the option of playing without Kjc anyway tbh.

[Jetjaguar]

You wouldn't even really want to be playing anything other than kjc on nazgrim anyway considering the orgrimmar loyalists are such an insignificant portion of the fight

[Deleted]

Im sure if you are the only dps hitting them you would do semi reasonable damage, but seen as they die in literally 3 globals vs a decent group that would go under the category of 'burst' aoe and that isint where affiction is going to shine.

For that pull specifically Destro and Demo really shit on Affi (they really do die far to fast) + Affi doesnt have the option of playing without Kjc anyway tbh.

if you look entirely on dmg pr cast then SoC is prolly our best aoe option, the problem is that it has a 1,5ish sec channel, a 1 sec travel time(potentially) and another 0,5 sec detonation time, so it ends up deflating the dps it does. What they really should do is to change SoC from being what it is now to something between how it is now and immolate, by that i mean removing the detonation time and travel time completely basically making it more into a ranged arcane explosion centered on the target, it would really help with afflic aoe, but that might end up being too powerful but it is really the travel time and the need for dmg to be dealt for it to trigger that really ruins it as an aoe option in my opinion. they certainly need to improve afflic aoe coz they are a joke compared to demo and destro.

[Daedelus]

Looks like UVLS won't be nerfed/replaced according to the blue on the frontpage. Blizzard doesn't seem to have a problem with UVLS not being replaced next tier.

I don't see a problem with that.

Thinking back to TBC there were certain trinkets from T5 that were BiS for certain classes (thinking of the rogue trinket from Lootreaver).

The spirit trinkets from ToC were also so good that they lasted right through ICC

Trinkets are the only type of gear that don't automatically get replaced by higher iLevel ones, and I quite like that.

[Deleted]

if you look entirely on dmg pr cast then SoC is prolly our best aoe option, the problem is that it has a 1,5ish sec channel, a 1 sec travel time(potentially) and another 0,5 sec detonation time, so it ends up deflating the dps it does. What they really should do is to change SoC from being what it is now to something between how it is now and immolate, by that i mean removing the detonation time and travel time completely basically making it more into a ranged arcane explosion centered on the target, it would really help with afflic aoe, but that might end up being too powerful but it is really the travel time and the need for dmg to be dealt for it to trigger that really ruins it as an aoe option in my opinion. they certainly need to improve afflic aoe coz they are a joke compared to demo and destro.

I dont disagree at all i think all specs should have similiar aoe power, but right atm even if affi had the mannoroths fury buff (ptr version) active all the time it would still get trashed by destro and demo.

[Deleted]

I don't see a problem with that.

Thinking back to TBC there were certain trinkets from T5 that were BiS for certain classes (thinking of the rogue trinket from Lootreaver).

The spirit trinkets from ToC were also so good that they lasted right through ICC

Trinkets are the only type of gear that don't automatically get replaced by higher iLevel ones, and I quite like that.

you wont like it when said trinket cant be bothered to drop for you lol.

i dont mind it being BiS next tier also, its just that one piece of gear shouldnt be that good, in any case it magnifies whats wrong with demo and what needs to be changed.

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I dont disagree at all i think all specs should have similiar aoe power, but right atm even if affi had the mannoroths fury buff (ptr version) active all the time it would still get trashed by destro and demo.

so true, it isnt much fun to be afflic when you need to aoe when you know, you can do 2-3 times as much dps as destro or demo. hopefully blizz get their act together and make some much needed changes to SoC.

[Gohzerlock]

The seed is strong again!

Don't really like that uvols will still possibly be bis next tier.

[Daedelus]

you wont like it when said trinket cant be bothered to drop for you lol.

i dont mind it being BiS next tier also, its just that one piece of gear shouldnt be that good, in any case it magnifies whats wrong with demo and what needs to be changed.

I only just got the LFR version despite multiple clears on normal and LFR and using a coin on Lei Shen on every normal kill. The proc rate of the LFR version is sketchy to say the least. It does not usually proc on a pull (on a dummy) even if I wait 5 minutes.

But I agree that it shouldn't take this trinket to make Demo viable. It was a weird trinket from the start.

[Teye]

have you ever tested ptr ?

Have you even tested PTR? Aff runs KJC on Nazrim, they'd be insane not to.

Also, even with the 100% increase to SoC damage, it doesn't out burst Demo without MF buffing Immolation Aura. 10 second Demonology Burst AoE is insanely high, much higher than you seem to realize. Two Fel Storms, 2 Chaos Waves, Immolation Aura and Harvest Life. With my gear, (shitty 521 ilvl (I just resubbed, btw, new job)) without MF or raid buffs, Immolation Aura ticks for 13k with DS and Synapse Springs up, 16.5k per tick of Fel Storm, from 2 Fel Guards, Chaos Wave hits for 97k each and Harvest Life is ticking for 10k. Immo Aura and Harvest Life each tick every .78 seconds due to Haste, Fel Storm ticks every second, and after 6 seconds of Fel Storm, there should be 4 Legion Strikes for 26k each (2 from each Guard). in 10 seconds, that's about 850k damage on a single target. On 10 targets, you're looking at 8 and a half million damage.

There's no feasible way Aff does more than that, unless they have full dots on all 10 targets. It simply won't happen, ever.

[Jessicka]

Affi doesnt have the option of playing without Kjc anyway tbh.

That is expected to change with other changes they've spoken about.

[Deleted]

That is expected to change with other changes they've spoken about.

No matter what they do short of literally ripping MG apart and giving the dots more damage (which they have made exceptionally clear they dont want to do)
there is no way Affiction cant use KJC or its damage will fall through the floor, even with that Mannoroth's fury change affiction aoe is still easily the worst of all the specs when the mobs are grouped up so is it going to be worth sacrificing the huge amount of single target damage you are going to lose - Not in a million years.

[Cariarsi]

As long as warlocks have KJC were just going to be the most cookie cutter class in the game in both pve and pvp.

[Teye]

As long as warlocks have KJC were just going to be the most cookie cutter class in the game in both pve and pvp.

How exactly are we more cookie cutter than say, Hunters? All 3 specs are 2-3 instant casts followed by 2 Steady/Cobra shots, and 2-3 more instant casts. Rinse, repeat, and literally don't modify at all for AoE. Demonology, for example, has one of the most original designs in the game thanks to things like HoG weaving, our AoE, our opener being more than 3 buttons, and stance dancing, which literally no other spec in the game currently does, other than Dps Warriors on the rare occasion that they're taking zero damage and Battle Stance begins to generate more Rage than Berserker. On 90% of the fights in ToT (Excluding only Normal Durumu and 10 man Lei Shen) Demonology doesn't take KJC, they pool a small amount of Fury for anticipated movement and they ToC through it.

[Deleted]

TLR'd the post due to some of the info being wrong, but this part i wanted to address still

To change the way Dots interact with temp haste buffs, if they no longer dynamically updated or no longer were able to snapshot it would mean that your dot ticks would be the same no matter what (changed ofc by your gear rating).

This would keep the scaling of a lot of specs in line, would this be a good or bad change (ofc assuming damage was based around it)

Thoughts

[Cebel]

Wait, is this conversation really happening? Aff out AoE Demo in a 10 second period? I literally can't react to that statement without getting infracted.

Then you literally have no idea what you're talking about... You do realize the new mannoroths fury only gives a dps increase to seed, immo aura/hellfire, and rain of fire yes?

Seed of corruption, with all my procs up ( before the 5.4 trinkets were available for testing ), my seeds were critting for 600k ( per target )..... Yea... atm affliction has the highest burst aoe within the mannoroths fury window... EASILY.

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How exactly are we more cookie cutter than say, Hunters? All 3 specs are 2-3 instant casts followed by 2 Steady/Cobra shots, and 2-3 more instant casts. Rinse, repeat, and literally don't modify at all for AoE. Demonology, for example, has one of the most original designs in the game thanks to things like HoG weaving, our AoE, our opener being more than 3 buttons, and stance dancing, which literally no other spec in the game currently does, other than Dps Warriors on the rare occasion that they're taking zero damage and Battle Stance begins to generate more Rage than Berserker. On 90% of the fights in ToT (Excluding only Normal Durumu and 10 man Lei Shen) Demonology doesn't take KJC, they pool a small amount of Fury for anticipated movement and they ToC through it.

After reading your last three posts.... Im done reading the warlock discussion forums. The shit out of your mouth has been rediculous... especially considering you just mentioned you just came back to the game... AKA YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF HOW THE ACTUAL GAMEPLAY WORKS. Thanks, good bye warlock forums, good bye.


Infracted for flaming