Wow testing in-game payments

[Deleted]

RMAH did not ruin Diablo3, the game became stale very fast upon reaching hell and inferno.
the pvp they said would come out just after release is still not implemented fully.
The paragon system was added a few months afterwards to try and highlight these end game issues.

So please don't say RMAH ruined diablo3. Diablo ruined diablo not the playerbase.

Besides RMAH in D3 is completely different because

a) The game doesnt have a sub
b) Only players can sell their stuff there, Blizzard takes a small cut but they dont sell items themselves.
c) The items on RMAH aren't exclusive. You can get them ingame too.

[Deleted]

While I am sure everyone here appreciates your feedback, we do not all share the same opinion. Subscription based and I still ended up spending over $2000 in the years I have been with Blizzard. Account transfers, realm transfers, race changes, pets, mounts etc. They can and will end up putting the store on US/EU realms and the playerbase will make use of it. I used to spend $50.00 per week when I smoked, all of that is money in my pocket. While I have the ability to throw cash at Blizzard, I also understand that some people do not have the means. It is by no means mandatory and if you want to play that game of, "It's available so I MUST DO IT" then that is your call. Do not try to dictate what other people do with their hard earned money.

"Anything goes"? "Everyone has their own opinion" is a farce, a fallacy everyone tends to raise time and again if they can find no other way to protect their behaviour. If you think that money was well spent, you are but a victim of the reigning cultural ideology.

[Raelbo]

You are looking at it like there is some set definition for P2W

There is a definition. P2W = Pay to win. "Winning" means beating other people in some form of competition. So for something to qualify it would be required to give you an advantage in some form of competition.

IMO P2W is anything that will give you ANY kind of in game advantage for cash out side of the subscription, why should someone else have a easier time in game for RL cash, it should be all equal footing IMO.

You missed a critical requirement. It has to give you an advantage that will help you win. In other words do better than someone else who is trying to beat you. The reason these items do not qualify is that if you are actually playing to win these items won't make an iota of difference to you. They help people who are not anywhere near any level of competition whatsoever.

Do you honestly believe any hardcore raider will feel compelled to pay for any of these services in order to get some edge? Unless they allow you to hit level cap faster when a new xpac arrives (something I am sure will be restricted) there is no possible advantage that anyone playing to win will not already have for free anyway.

If you like that play style I'm sure there are plenty of F2P games with the buy your way to the top store that may suit your needs, Honestly I don't think it will be good for this game at all.

I don't care for these items at all. I won't be buying them because they won't help me to "win" anything. That being said I can understand how some people might find them appealing, and honestly, I don't see how those people would in any way suddenly gain any advantage over me for having done so.

[Dadwen]

While I am sure everyone here appreciates your feedback, we do not all share the same opinion. Subscription based and I still ended up spending over $2000 in the years I have been with Blizzard. Account transfers, realm transfers, race changes, pets, mounts etc. They can and will end up putting the store on US/EU realms and the playerbase will make use of it. I used to spend $50.00 per week when I smoked, all of that is money in my pocket. While I have the ability to throw cash at Blizzard, I also understand that some people do not have the means. It is by no means mandatory and if you want to play that game of, "It's available so I MUST DO IT" then that is your call. Do not try to dictate what other people do with their hard earned money.

Blizzard uses the "if it's available so I must do it" all the time to limit things, Raid lock out's, Valor\honor Caps, even took loot out of the 2 mans because people felt they had to stop to loot in the timed runs.

[Sosuke Aizen]

"Anything goes"? "Everyone has their own opinion" is a farce, a fallacy everyone tends to raise time and again if they can find no other way to protect their behaviour. If you think that money was well spent, you are but a victim of the reigning cultural ideology.

I pay for convenience because I can afford it, you may feel victimized and I am sorry for that. I am sure if you write a letter to Blizzard CS, they can help out. This is an example of something that happened a little while ago:

I had a plumbing issue a few months back so I called RotoRooters or w/e they are named. The gentleman came and said, "It's going to cost around $550 to unclog your main". I was stunned that it was that much and said, "Are you kidding me?? I was expecting about $150 - $200". His smart remark was, "How much could I pay you to clean up my shit and my wife's tampons from my drain?". My remark, "Son, I became a CIO so I would not have to deal with two things, shit and little kids. You chose this profession therefore you deal with shit all day...the door is right there and could you please leave.".

When I smoked and spent $250/month, I though that was well spent. It all comes down to what you are capable of doing with your funds. I pay a landscaper $90.00 per month to mow my lawn; sure I could do it myself, but why? I pay for that convenience.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard uses the "if it's available so I must do it" all the time to limit things, Raid lock out's, Valor\honor Caps, even took loot out of the 2 mans because people felt they had to stop to loot in the timed runs.

That is because some people have addiction problems, WoW can be like weed for some people.

[Dadwen]

There is a definition. P2W = Pay to win. "Winning" means beating other people in some form of competition. So for something to qualify it would be required to give you an advantage in some form of competition.



You missed a critical requirement. It has to give you an advantage that will help you win. In other words do better than someone else who is trying to beat you. The reason these items do not qualify is that if you are actually playing to win these items won't make an iota of difference to you. They help people who are not anywhere near any level of competition whatsoever.

Do you honestly believe any hardcore raider will feel compelled to pay for any of these services in order to get some edge? Unless they allow you to hit level cap faster when a new xpac arrives (something I am sure will be restricted) there is no possible advantage that anyone playing to win will not already have for free anyway.



I don't care for these items at all. I won't be buying them because they won't help me to "win" anything. That being said I can understand how some people might find them appealing, and honestly, I don't see how those people would in any way suddenly gain any advantage over me for having done so.

What you fail to see is in a MMO it's not all about raiding, for some it's earning as much gold as they can, for some it's leveling every kinda of toon they can for some it's PVP others it raiding, hard core raiding is not the end all for winning (I'm sure some of the hard core PVPer will really have word with you on that), what if you're trying to level faster on a PVP server, seems it would be a clear advantage there, level = power.

[TS26]

Baffled. But to be expected. Truly only the complainers on the forums have the truth while companies are evil and spout standard marketing phrases. I think this is one of the reasons why I tell my self time and again not to bother with these threads. Yet I keep failing.



Probably because I cannot keep up with trading them in, I actually don't play much. Did like 3 full LFR clears in 5.0? That is why I am surprised that players find it hard to collect them, there is a lot already dropping in the weekly Barrens quest or during pet battles. I probably play half an hour per day on average. Takes me 90 minutes to complete the weekly Barrens, but then I often skip 2 or 3 days of playing entirely.



See above. I think i capped them in the first month of MoP. Didn't find it easy either. Haven't capped in a long time...I probably make 500 VP a week

Way to miss my point. It's not about "you" just like how it's not about a heroic raider who caps his vp in 4 hours.

[Dadwen]

That is because some people have addiction problems, WoW can be like weed for some people.

So from that logic the store seems like a bad idea for their own protection, right now all they can lose is 15$ a month.

[Deleted]

Blizzard really loses it lately

LFR
Flexible raid
Free legendary
Kung fu panda expac
Destroying classes gameplay
Worst pvp balance in the history of the game

and now... P2W cash shop with a monthly fee ?? WTF

[Raelbo]

I'm not big into playing the AH but last week was trying to make the 2nd eng flying copter and needed the (koulium or something like that ore) and while flying around farmed up a bunch of outland ore and made more than I ever had at 1-4 so those arguments don't hold water. - so yes there are a lot of different ways to spend that extra time in game even farming old raid for pets can yield good cash.

I make close to 100g from doing the farm/cooking dailies in 6 minutes flat. That exludes the gold I make from a few greens, cloth, 100g for the soy sauce I buy with my ironpaw token or leather I skin from dead mobs up there. I also get 20 VP. I think this is my most profitable 6 minutes every day after the time I spend tending my actual farm (4 minutes).

In other words, doing those dailies nets 2K gold per hour.

I could then do the Isle of Thunder dailies plus all the other stuff that I do at the same time (key to the palace, chest, rares). Takes about 45 minutes usually. 12 quests (ie 24 charms minimum) for 240g from quest rewards. Plus I tend to get anywhere from 60 - 120 VP. Plus gold from the chest and final quest lootboxes = 60 gold. Plus I get 500g from the Key to the Palace scenario, plus I fill up my greater charms to 20 (= more gold from killing raid and world bosses). Plus I get 4-5 greens, a few stacks of cloth, maybe up 50g of vendor trash. All told you are looking at well over 1K gold per hour, plus you are getting VP in the process.

Best of all, this is completely sustainable income.

Mining for outland ores might even beat the raw gold/hour gained, at least for the first few hours of time you invest in it. But you aren't getting rep or VP which are far more valuable if you are playing to win. Also, mining is simply not sustainable. Try listing tons of stacks of any consumable on the AH and see what happens to the prices.

The bottom line is this: I would be very, very surprised, if anyone can maximise their gold return in a week without at least doing something that will earn them 50 lesser charms.

I get hundreds every week as a side effect of the stuff I am doing anyway. If I wasn't doing enough in WoW that I should require to buy my lesser charms for the week, I wouldn't be close to winning anything....

[Sosuke Aizen]

So from that logic the store seems like a bad idea for their own protection, right now all they can lose is 15$ a month.

Blizzard already has a store, they are just making it so that you do not need to take that extra step to go to the web site. Right now, they can lose more than $15.00 per month. $30.00 to faction change and $25.00 to realm change along with a monthly sub adds up to more than the $15. Also pets, mounts...

[corebit]

I don't why people are freaking out so much. This is going to be mostly for Asian Realms only.

Remember the whole 25-mans were going to have better items? People here were also freaking out, believing Blizzard wants to return to the old Wrath model. Turns out it's also just for Asian realms.

[Dadwen]

Blizzard already has a store, they are just making it so that you do not need to take that extra step to go to the web site. Right now, they can lose more than $15.00 per month. $30.00 to faction change and $25.00 to realm change along with a monthly sub adds up to more than the $15. Also pets, mounts...

Don't think someone can become addicted to buying the same pet or mount over and over so not sure the current store counts.

[Glaziola]

Blizzard really loses it lately

LFR
Flexible raid
Free legendary
Kung fu panda expac
Destroying classes gameplay
Worst pvp balance in the history of the game

and now... P2W cash shop with a monthly fee ?? WTF

I'm sorry but I don't understand the bolded part, what did blizzard lose?
Point one LFR, yeah the afkers might get free gear and a free legendary but there a lot of people who work for it like myself (perform well).
Second point Flex raids is the best thing for people like myself who cannot devote time to a raiding guild, thus bringing back the wotlk pug style.
Third point Kung fu panda's > some people actually loved that movie

But on topic I don't like the idea of the paid potion with $$$ but then again I don't care as I won't be buying it anyway maybe just for the realm first race if they allow use in the next expansion.

[MoanaLisa]

On the other MMO subforums people always are arrogantly claiming how they don't want to play F2P MMOs, because they are Pay2Win MMOs.

I wonder how they're going to feel about paying a subscription for a Pay2Win MMO instead.

There are more than a few MMO's out there that have a premium monthly subscription in addition to being F2P. It's not like it's never been done before anywhere at all. And of course, assuming that eventually WoW goes to something like this. It all depends on how it's set up when it comes to that: what's free, what isn't and what's included in the store that you can't get in game.

I'm sort of ambivalent about it to be honest. But that's mainly because it's unlikely that I'll ever use it for much of anything and even if I did it would be my choice and no one else's business. In any case I'm much less against than I used to be, primarily because I've seen how it works in Rift and Tera and in those specific cases it's not that bad. SW:TOR on the other hand is quite bad. So it depends and to say much more at this point is entirely premature.

[SL1200]

I make close to 100g from doing the farm/cooking dailies in 6 minutes flat. That exludes the gold I make from a few greens, cloth, 100g for the soy sauce I buy with my ironpaw token or leather I skin from dead mobs up there. I also get 20 VP. I think this is my most profitable 6 minutes every day after the time I spend tending my actual farm (4 minutes).

In other words, doing those dailies nets 2K gold per hour.

I could then do the Isle of Thunder dailies plus all the other stuff that I do at the same time (key to the palace, chest, rares). Takes about 45 minutes usually. 12 quests (ie 24 charms minimum) for 240g from quest rewards. Plus I tend to get anywhere from 60 - 120 VP. Plus gold from the chest and final quest lootboxes = 60 gold. Plus I get 500g from the Key to the Palace scenario, plus I fill up my greater charms to 20 (= more gold from killing raid and world bosses). Plus I get 4-5 greens, a few stacks of cloth, maybe up 50g of vendor trash. All told you are looking at well over 1K gold per hour, plus you are getting VP in the process.

Best of all, this is completely sustainable income.

Mining for outland ores might even beat the raw gold/hour gained, at least for the first few hours of time you invest in it. But you aren't getting rep or VP which are far more valuable if you are playing to win. Also, mining is simply not sustainable. Try listing tons of stacks of any consumable on the AH and see what happens to the prices.

The bottom line is this: I would be very, very surprised, if anyone can maximise their gold return in a week without at least doing something that will earn them 50 lesser charms.

I get hundreds every week as a side effect of the stuff I am doing anyway. If I wasn't doing enough in WoW that I should require to buy my lesser charms for the week, I wouldn't be close to winning anything....

And you think that competes with the income from sitting in trade chat watching for deals on ore and playing the ah? I can assure you that you're wrong. I mean you are talking hundreds of gold when i'm talking thousands of gold.

[Sosuke Aizen]

Don't think someone can become addicted to buying the same pet or mount over and over so not sure the current store counts.

There are many things that humans do that we may not think is the norm. Addicted to buying pets could be one of them, buying a mount for the five different battlenet accounts may be another. People do crazy shit. I have a buddy that race changes every CD, his reasoning is beyond me.

[DrSteveBrule]

I don't why people are freaking out so much. This is going to be mostly for Asian Realms only.

Remember the whole 25-mans were going to have better items? People here were also freaking out, believing Blizzard wants to return to the old Wrath model. Turns out it's also just for Asian realms.

Now is the time to freak out. Once they let something in that they eventually realize wasn't well thought out they say "well we can't go back now (LFG/LFR)."

[Dadwen]

There are many things that humans do that we may not think is the norm. Addicted to buying pets could be one of them, buying a mount for the five different battlenet accounts may be another. People do crazy shit. I have a buddy that race changes every CD, his reasoning is beyond me.

Now picture someone buying charms\XP potions every week for those same 5 accounts, now you are in a whole new realm of crazy and problems.

[Raelbo]

What you fail to see is in a MMO it's not all about raiding,

I realise this. But the same principles apply.

cfor some it's earning as much gold as they can, [/quote]

Pretty hard to define "winning" here. Even if you can create a scenario in which someone believes they are "winning" the gold game based on things they have bought from the store, I am not sure how that negatively affects anyone else playing the game.

for some it's leveling every kinda of toon they can

Again, same argument as above. Who exactly are you "beating" by levelling all your toons faster by paying for it. You are playing against yourself surely? I don't see how this harms other players, or compels anyone who doesn't want to spend the money on this to do so.

for some it's PVP others it raiding, hard core raiding is not the end all for winning (I'm sure some of the hard core PVPer will really have word with you on that),

I have already proven that these store items don't give any advantage to either of these activities.

what if you're trying to level faster on a PVP server, seems it would be a clear advantage there, level = power.

Actually, until you are level capped it makes no difference. You aren't "winning" anything. And as long as they prohibit the use of the level boost during the first week, all those playing to be the best on the server won't get any advantage from it at all, because by the time it becomes available they will be level capped anyway, and won't have any use for it.

You can't argue that a lowbie on a PvP server is at a disadvantage because of this either. It may make the life of some other players easier (because they get to spend less time getting ganked because they get to level 90 faster), but it won't make your life harder. If you're level 25 in a zone, people who level faster than you will leave the zone sooner. It's not as if you are stuck with some guy who rolled his toon at the same time as you, even though he is 20 levels above you. On a pvp server there will always be the possibility of a higher level toon coming and ganking you.



Look, I don't like the idea of Pay to Win any more than you do. I think it is a terrible idea. I just don't see this as Pay to Win.