Outrage over "Don't be that girl" Posters in Edmonton.

[Deleted]

You are not guilty of rape if she consented. If she said yes, it is not "against her will" as you say. Getting drunk and saying yes are two actions, true, as I said before, two mistakes, and a person is responsable for her mistakes.

That person in your example is guilty of those two things indeed. But in the case we are discussing, where she druged herself, the guy is not guilty of "drugging someone", and, as she said "yes" to a direct question such as "do you want to have sex with me?", he is also not guilty of "raping". He did not induce her to say yes as in your example.

And more amusingly, as a Man, If a woman asks me for sex and I say yes, is that not rape too?

In that case, I have been raped, alot, as have my friends, my family and so forth.

Drunk looses lips, but it doesn't totally make you incapable of decisions.

[gamingmuscle]

The only time I have ever even seen this "taking advantage" of women in person is when they themselves are under the influence.

If the woman who is very drunk and kinda let's them do their thing without saying no is not responsible for their actions, is the dude who has litttle sense of himself also not responsible?

And here is the better question. I have woken up with some rather ugly beast of a woman spooning me. Quite often. Why does the poster assume MEN are the only things capable of horrific sexual assault?

Statistics that are available support it for the moment? Heck either more women need to rape more men and it get reported...or less men to to rape less women so that there is no statistical significance!

I personally don't find messages that use the least likely scenario the most convincing or the best portrayal of the message.

[Deleted]

Don't try and convince any Draenei-avatared misogynists of that.

Well, feminism is utterly convinced the word Misandry doesn't exist.

And see how they talk about MRA groups like they're terrorists.

[Stasso]

Bottom line whose actions can a person control, their own, so if a woman decides to give up her power of thinking for a fun night of party while fully aware there are roofies, date rapists, and gang bangers that might be out to get you while you leave yourself powerless is like swimming with sharks, not you fault for being bit you had no control over the shark, but ask yourself what did you have control over and get your power back. Women arent helpless or powerless, and people thinking this are building into their minds they cant fight back, which is hard to fight back drunk look at bar fights, but you can fight back, you fight back with a police report, you fight back with a civil suit, you fight back with self defense, and you avoid conflict that isn't necessary.
The worse thing a rape victim can do and perhaps the only thing you can blame them for is not filing a report and letting it go unreported, things wont change if we don't bring it to light.
Look at the law a man is a accuse of rape he is out on bail, a scary thought for a women knowing that even after accusing you leave yourself open, yet a drug dealer is held without bail till they see a judge. Obviously our laws need to come down mega harsh on both rapist and people who cry wolf, as those two things make the problem.

[starlord]

what i do find funny is that we agree on this

but i don´t understand how you can take the mra posters offensive while agreeing with the feminism poster

im not "taking it offensively", you see people agreeing with that very message. because thats what it was meant to send.
the "feminism" poster is about educating people about consent. "not saying no doeant mean yes". and they presented by far the most common scenario of such an issue, where a lot of people seem to have confusion (genuine or otherwise).

[Deleted]

Statistics that are available support it for the moment? Heck either more women need to rape more men and it get reported...or less men to to rape less women so that there is no statistical significance!

I personally don't find messages that use the least likely scenario the most convincing or the best portrayal of the message.

Or, get this chuck. Women are allowed in this political air to cry rape on almost anything, hell, find a feminist tumblr, the word rape loses all meaning.

Rape is serious sexual assault, and it happens to anyone.

if I grope a girls ass while drunk in the club, I am not raping her, just like the girl groping my ass is not raping me.

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im not "taking it offensively", you see people agreeing with that very message. because thats what it was meant to send.
the "feminism" poster is about educating people about consent. "not saying no doeant mean yes". and they presented by far the most common scenario of such an issue, where a lot of people seem to have confusion (genuine or otherwise).

If it was education PEOPLE about consent, why does it automatically assume men are the ones doing the "Rape"?

[starlord]

Don't try and convince any Draenei-avatared misogynists of that.

i think you meant misandrist. but hey name calling, keep it classy.

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If it was education PEOPLE about consent, why does it automatically assume men are the ones doing the "Rape"?

because men do 97% of them. thus, the most common scenario...

[Deleted]

i think you meant misandrist. but hey name calling, keep it classy.

And in a turn of irony, there is a red line of incorrectness under Misandrist while I type this, but not one under Misogyny. fair right?

[Odina]

being in a mentally impaired state means a person cannot legally consent to sex, plain and simple. a lot of guys dont seem to understand this, as evidenced in this very thread.
MRA's completely ignoring this just to shame victims is really ridiculous.

Where they in a mentally impared state when they started to drink? I mean do we feel bad for a drunk driver that killed some one and cut them some slack because they were in a mentally impaired state when they killed the person? or do we say "you knew what you were getting into before you started to drink and you still decided to drink when you were in a proper mental state and as such must pay for the crime you commited while in an impaired mental state".

funny you mention moving the goal posts... isnt this another prime example of doing the same... when something happens to you when you are drunk TOTALY the other persons fault...yet if you do the act while drunk WTF were you thinking before you started to drink????

[Deleted]

because men do 97% of them. thus, the most common scenario...

where is this 97% pull from? Please, do show me. And just to show the feminist double standards.
around 90% of all dangerous jobs in the world, or jobs involving physics, mathematics and engineering are done by men. Should we not then provide women with leeway into these courses and easier marking grades? Should we also pay them more too?

[Snorlaxi]

Why can't you guys see that an adult person is responsable for her acts? We are not talking about kids here. If an adult person decides to get drunk, she is responsable for that. If she decides to say yes because she is drunk, she is still responsable for that, she is not adsolved of any responsability all of the sudden because you guys want them to be happy. This is not how it works. You action, your mistake, your answer, your responsability.

This is pretty much it. I would really like to see someone who disagree with me reply to that, for I cannot see how can anyone disagree on this, considering the case we have been discussing so far.

[prwraith]

Imo it should fall under no fault in some cases. Women gets drunk, man gets drunk, neither was raped if they sleep together. They both just made bad calls.

Here's a better question. If a male gets completely fucked up drunk, and a women takes him home and sleeps with him, can I charge her with rape? And would it stick? Probably not.

[Deleted]

Where they in a mentally impared state when they started to drink? I mean do we feel bad for a drunk driver that killed some one and cut them some slack because they were in a mentally impaired state when they killed the person? or do we say "you knew what you were getting into before you started to drink and you still decided to drink when you were in a proper mental state and as such must pay for the crime you commited while in an impaired mental state".

funny you mention moving the goal posts... isnt this another prime example of doing the same... when something happens to you when you are drunk TOTALY the other persons fault...yet if you do the act while drunk WTF were you thinking before you started to drink????

This just points out the terrible fact that Drinking is not some sudden removal of all social norms.

A person who will drink drive, will drink drive.

A person who will take advantage of a woman while she or both are drunk, would do that.


Automatically assuming that just because women drink they are now fragile rape targets and when men drink they all become sexual predators is sexist in ALL Grounds.

[zenyatta]

It's fairly obvious that the latter posters are attempting to discredit legitimate rape accusations because of the victim's intoxication; perhaps implying that they *seemed* to consent, as if that were valid.

That's the thing I don't like. I read somewhere that ~95% of rape reports were legitimate, so while, yes, some women/man (girls can rape too!) falsely accuse because they regret it, or to get revenge, rape reports are largely honest and truthful "I was violated" reports. But because of those "But you had a low cut top on you were asking for it" type ads, I wonder how many DON'T get reported. Even when they are, the rapists seem to just get "Bad boy/girl, no dessert after dinner tonight!" as opposed to facing serious consequences. Having to register as sex offenders doesn't do much to deter people either. If we want to stop rape, victim blaming or even questioning the victim about garbage like "But were you flirting? But was your skirt short?" that kind of stuff needs to stop. Rape is not ok, I don't care what he circumstances are.

[Deleted]

Here's a better question. If a male gets completely fucked up drunk, and a women takes him home and sleeps with him, can I charge her with rape? And would it stick? Probably not.

Well, according to alot of feminists, men can't be raped period.

Most just assume "you wanted it anyway"

A very few reasonable ones would say "Yes, but probably not"

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That's the thing I don't like. I read somewhere that ~95% of rape reports were legitimate, so while, yes, some women/man (girls can rape too!) falsely accuse because they regret it, or to get revenge, rape reports are largely honest and truthful "I was violated" reports. But because of those "But you had a low cut top on you were asking for it" type ads, I wonder how many DON'T get reported. Even when they are, the rapists seem to just get "Bad boy/girl, no dessert after dinner tonight!" as opposed to facing serious consequences. Having to register as sex offenders doesn't do much to deter people either. If we want to stop rape, victim blaming or even questioning the victim about garbage like "But were you flirting? But was your skirt short?" that kind of stuff needs to stop. Rape is not ok, I don't care what he circumstances are.

I have been accused of rape by an Ex girlfriend for smacking her ass in public, the police were called and everything. Earlier than night, she was giving me an unwanted lapdance.

I somewhat thing maybe, just maybe, justice is a little skewed at what the term "rape" really means anymore.

[Deleted]

They come from Women's Studies people. Noone outside of America has any clue what Women's Studies really is and have even less idea why it's a degree. We don't have Men's Studies (or is that just engineering/computer science because the gender ratio is horrific?).

Sweden reporting in, pretty much every Swedish university seems to have a gender studies department these days.

[Deleted]

Sweden reporting in, pretty much every Swedish university seems to have a gender studies department these days.

Is it pretty ironic that they deal with feminist and transgender issues only?


I wonder what kind of mindset goes through people to waste their lives and money on such pointless degrees where they just squark feminist dogma.

[prwraith]

Well, according to alot of feminists, men can't be raped period.

Most just assume "you wanted it anyway"

A very few reasonable ones would say "Yes, but probably not"

Those would have to be the least informed feminists of our generation haha.

[starlord]

where is this 97% pull from? Please, do show me. And just to show the feminist double standards.
around 90% of all dangerous jobs in the world, or jobs involving physics, mathematics and engineering are done by men. Should we not then provide women with leeway into these courses and easier marking grades? Should we also pay them more too?

here you go, i even erred on the side of bigger numbers.
http://www.csom.org/pubs/female_sex_offenders_brief.pdf

National criminal justice statistics reveal that of all adults and juveniles who come to the attention of the authorities for sex crimes, females account for less than 10% of these cases (FBI, 2006). Specifically, arrests of women represent only 1% of all adult arrests for forcible rape and 6% of all adult arrests for other sex offenses.

Parallel data concerning adolescent sex offenders indicate that females are responsible for 3% of forcible rape cases and 5% of other violent sex offenses – and 19% of non-violent sex offenses – handled by the juvenile courts annually (Snyder & Sickmund, 2006).

[gamingmuscle]

You're interpreting it wrong then. Your actions make it more likely that bad people will do bad things to you. Not a direct reagent, but a catalyst. There are things you can do to protect yourself.

I don't disagree, and never said you can't prevent things...just we don't cause bad people to do bad things. They do them because they are bad people...and it not our fault when they do.