5.4 Changes

[meathead]

If no other class/spec with same gear/skill can be on par with one specific class/spec, that class/spec is overpowered.
That's pretty much the situation that best define overpower.

I haven't played a lot during BC (my first 70 was during WotLK...) so I don't know if the quote is exact. But the situation described is a very good example of a badly balanced pvp.

You don't want a class to be above each other. You want balance. And in a game with so many class/spec, that means you want some kind of rock/paper/scissor, because there's no realistic way to put everybody on par.

i think maybe you should re read what i wrote.who hits you harder with a gun a warrior or hunter?who hits you harder with blots of frost,a warrior or mage?who hits harder with "death damage" a mage or lock?you see what i am getting at here,every class does what they are intended to do except warriors.who hits the hardest with a 2 handed weapon?its sure as hell not MS warriors any more.

where the fuck did i say any thing about no other class can be on par with MS warriors?hell mages kicked the shit out of warriors even in BC.yet mages are still #1 in pvp and arms is dead,again.

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I think you misunderstood that. There are clear winners in 1on1 scenarios now and there have been clear winners back then and those were not really always warriors in fact I doubt that any decent pvper would seriously name warriors as the predominant dueling class of those times. This didn't change one bit.
Warriors were able to deal good damage while they stayed on the target and they paid with their healer/personal dispeller dependency and while warriors were part of the especially in the later stages of the addon stronger 3s comps it wasn't like there haven't been other successful comps over course of the addon. Also a lot of stuff that wasn't warrior was working in 2s as well.
The premise of the quote wasn't that you are supposed to beat everything with a right click - it simply meant that you shouldn't expect to stand in front of a warrior taking all the damage and win just like that from there.
So many years later the overall design goal has shifted towards homogenization but pvp wise the class didn't really move to the same level of self sufficiency a lot of others either had to begin with like frost mages and rogues or got over time which is the problem . Also while I personally would like balance I don't need it for every spec in every comp as this isn't something even remotely achievable given the situation and the resources Blizzard spends on that part of the game.
Anyways to get a bit back on the topic ... I suppose the bloodbath change is just a datamining error as nothing changed on the ptr.

nice post and well said-100% agree.i dont see how people can miss what i was trying to say.warriors could take and give alot of damage,we had big health pools and lots of Armour along with 50% MS.but they took that away from us and in turn gave rets and dks a shit ton of damage to go along with all there utility. this = warriors lost their spot.rets and dks filled the same roll as MS warriors did but had/have much more utility.

[sjsctt]

i think maybe you should re read what i wrote.who hits you harder with a gun a warrior or hunter?who hits you harder with blots of frost,a warrior or mage?who hits harder with "death damage" a mage or lock?you see what i am getting at here,every class does what they are intended to do except warriors.who hits the hardest with a 2 handed weapon?its sure as hell not MS warriors any more.

where the fuck did i say any thing about no other class can be on par with MS warriors?hell mages kicked the shit out of warriors even in BC.yet mages are still #1 in pvp and arms is dead,again.

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nice post and well said-100% agree.i dont see how people can miss what i was trying to say.warriors could take and give alot of damage,we had big health pools and lots of Armour along with 50% MS.but they took that away from us and in turn gave rets and dks a shit ton of damage to go along with all there utility. this = warriors lost their spot.rets and dks filled the same roll as MS warriors did but had/have much more utility.

They are just making it so if Bloodbath is dispelled, it doesn't get rid of the damage component, but only the slow.

[Beefkow]

They are just making it so if Bloodbath is dispelled, it doesn't get rid of the damage component, but only the slow.

Lol, still not the "scariest" talent to get.

On another note, avatar/bloodbath/stormbolt need to do more damage in pvp (possibly pve)

First off, what they can do is buff avatar damage to 30% up from 20% or provide us with 25% increase rage regen so that way avatar has a "burst" feel to it (ex: ascendance/incarnation/etc) but still keep the removal of roots effect.

Second, i see bloodbath being not so threatful in pvp (nah, i am not scared of a lvl 90 spell) so there are two options that blizzard can THINK about: 1. Up the slow effect to 70% to make it somewhat threatening (again, you can get out of it). 2. Up the percentage to maybe 40% or 50% to compete with avatar (my proposed buffed version).

Third, storm bolt isn't scary at all, the stun can be annoying but its only 3 so no big deal, i see storm bolt being decent in pve because of its insane weapon damage (fury is getting a nice buff for getting off 2 storm bolts) so i propose that arms gets a small buff of weapon dmg from both 125% and 500% to maybe 200% and 600%? so the damage is a triple multiplier when used on immunity to stun.

[Deleted]

Lol, still not the "scariest" talent to get.

On another note, avatar/bloodbath/stormbolt need to do more damage in pvp (possibly pve)

First off, what they can do is buff avatar damage to 30% up from 20% or provide us with 25% increase rage regen so that way avatar has a "burst" feel to it (ex: ascendance/incarnation/etc) but still keep the removal of roots effect.

Second, i see bloodbath being not so threatful in pvp (nah, i am not scared of a lvl 90 spell) so there are two options that blizzard can THINK about: 1. Up the slow effect to 70% to make it somewhat threatening (again, you can get out of it). 2. Up the percentage to maybe 40% or 50% to compete with avatar (my proposed buffed version).

Third, storm bolt isn't scary at all, the stun can be annoying but its only 3 so no big deal, i see storm bolt being decent in pve because of its insane weapon damage (fury is getting a nice buff for getting off 2 storm bolts) so i propose that arms gets a small buff of weapon dmg from both 125% and 500% to maybe 200% and 600%? so the damage is a triple multiplier when used on immunity to stun.

So you pretty much wanna just double the effect on all lvl 90 talents?
I say no, warrior is enough cooldown dependent already, no need to buff the already strong dps buffs even more.

The only thing I agree on is that Stormbolt needs a pvp dmg buff. 200%/500% would be better balance in my opinion and is actually needed to open the door for Bladestorm...

[Deleted]

The only thing I agree on is that Stormbolt needs a pvp dmg buff. 200%/500% would be better balance in my opinion and is actually needed to open the door for Bladestorm...

It's 500% on the ptr instead of 375% but that's uninteresting for PvP purposes. With your 200% instead of a 125% for pvp it'd hit 60% harder, so for 40k instead of 25k with all cooldowns popped? I hardly doubt that'd make any impact... at all.

[Skarssen]

It's 500% on the ptr instead of 375% but that's uninteresting for PvP purposes. With your 200% instead of a 125% for pvp it'd hit 60% harder, so for 40k instead of 25k with all cooldowns popped? I hardly doubt that'd make any impact... at all.

Right, while the frost mage stands 20 meters away spamming 100k skill-lances at you lol

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give us a new passive called "Raging Anticipation" that states "when you are 8 or more yards away from your target with the mortal wounds debuff, you generate 2 rage per second." This gives us something to work with when we are off target / being kited.

I'm not sure how that would work out as I don't really play my warrior much anymore, but extra rage when away from the target certainly fits, since while I am stuck in roots/snares getting hammered by some Harry Potter weakling I am raging inside!

[Deleted]

It's 500% on the ptr instead of 375% but that's uninteresting for PvP purposes. With your 200% instead of a 125% for pvp it'd hit 60% harder, so for 40k instead of 25k with all cooldowns popped? I hardly doubt that'd make any impact... at all.

No the dmg actually didnt get increased, its just a tooltip fix.
Before it said 375% additional dmg, now it just says 500% dmg.

With 200% it would just hit like free slam, sounds reasonable to me for pvp situations...

[mstg]

Look at how much Bliz care about Mages, when they address warrior problems it's always only a few sentences with sacarsm

Patch 5.4 Fire Mage Changes Clarification
We'll be reverting both of these changes in the next PTR build.

Here’s a little more insight into our thinking here (and why the changes even popped up on the PTR in the first place):

We have a few concerns with how Fire is playing out at the moment. Fire scales incredibly well with gear, and we’re worried that they’ll end up doing way too much damage in high end gear. However, we’re trying to avoid just nerfing Fire’s scaling, as that would unfairly hurt any Fire mage who ISN’T in high-end gear.

We’re also worried that Fire is leaning too heavily on perfect cooldown usage. It’s awesome when a highly-skilled player is able to use all of their abilities to the fullest and be rewarded with a little extra damage. It’s significantly less awesome when failing to do so results in a massive loss of DPS. At the moment, Fire is extremely dependent on lining up all of your cooldowns (most notably Alter Time and Presence of Mind) to score massive Combustion damage. If you pull it off, you’re rewarded with a lot of damage. Mess it up, and your performance suffers dramatically. We’d like to tone down the differences between those high and low ends a bit.

We also think that Presence of Mind in particular is just too important to Fire right now. There’s really no choice in that tier – PoM is just too good compared to the other options. We want talents to be a choice.

Those are the issues we’d like to fix, and why the earlier changes hit the PTR to begin with. We may try other methods, or we may decide to just leave things alone for 5.4, but we do want to fix them.

[Beefkow]

Fine, give storm bolt a 300% weapon damage on targets? then 600% on stun immune targets? i think that would be reasonable.

But then again, might cause an imbalance making it more superior to BB and avatar (again, i can't call avatar a 3 min cd ability, its very weak and just makes you an iron giant waiting to meet its demise).

[Flaks]

With how weak our sustained is, how underpar our burst is, how behind the times our utility is, giving us back a silence on pummel AND root immunity on Avatar still probably would NOT put us on par with ret pallies, mages, locks and hunters.

Blizzard very clearly doesn't give a crap. I think at this point the only thing PvP warriors can do is quit entirely/reroll to show Blizzard what's up. Except of course that'll lead to ridiculous overbuffing next expansion and subsequent nerfs and the cycle repeating.

[Opeth69]

Siege Loot is up!
Im liking the how the bis 2h seems to be Gorehowl which means bis TG weps are again from the last boss, really crappy decision for progress as it pretty much forces us into 1hs. Also shame the only strength polearm is haste/mastery would have been nice to dual wield them.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Shouldn't we worry more about overall then just PVP? I mean PVP isn't this entire game and it shouldn't be the basis of all complaints.

[Flaks]

Shouldn't we worry more about overall then just PVP? I mean PVP isn't this entire game and it shouldn't be the basis of all complaints.

This thread has hit on both PvP and PvE. AND there's a few other PvE threads as well whereas PvP threads are quickly lost into obscurity very quickly because all the threads devolve into half the warrior community saying that the spec/class is fine and people having trouble with the class are bad.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This thread has hit on both PvP and PvE. AND there's a few other PvE threads as well whereas PvP threads are quickly lost into obscurity very quickly because all the threads devolve into half the warrior community saying that the spec/class is fine and people having trouble with the class are bad.

Well, that's not exactly good logic to use. Personally I like what we've gotten but I still feel we need more but I digress. I kind of suggest making a Warrior for all thread(Like the one Mages have).

[Sliske]

I'm probably being really dumb (its late) but i've seen this glyph twice now and can't fathom who made it and why.

Whirlwind gives you 15 rage over 6 sec, but for that time you no longer generate rage from autoattacks.

15 rage over 6 seconds? So 2.5 rage / second. Almost as low as defensive stance. So basically, does it for example, if i hit 5 people with whirlwind, will i get 15 rage x 5 over 6 seconds? Or, is it ALWAYS 15 rage. If so, what the fuck? It worries me when they make glyphs like these, it shows a complete lack of understanding of classes

[Warriorsarri]

It currently stands as a Minor Glyph, so I don't expect it to be taken serious. The only thing I would see making it remotely viable, is if as you say it proced from each mobb hit, or if it would stack. If we where to use WW four time in a row, and it would stack, it would be somewhat useful, but still, not optimal. If it stays as it currently stands, I wouldn't give it much thought.

[Deleted]

it could be useful in defensive stance

[Deleted]

Whirlwind gives you 15 rage over 6 sec, but for that time you no longer generate rage from autoattacks.

15 rage over 6 seconds? So 2.5 rage / second. Almost as low as defensive stance. So basically, does it for example, if i hit 5 people with whirlwind, will i get 15 rage x 5 over 6 seconds? Or, is it ALWAYS 15 rage. If so, what the fuck? It worries me when they make glyphs like these, it shows a complete lack of understanding of classes

I would have loved this glyph on Lei Shi Progress.

[meathead]

they buffed ice lance lmfao!every patch they revert some if not all mage nerfs.

[helic]

But I really really really like the warrior arena gear for the next season : <