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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Been playing 8 years myself, the only things I really have issue with is cross realm everything ESPECIALLY LFR, it took something that took coordination and knowing your class and completely bastardized it, it has nothing to do with the gear for me and everything to do with the fact that it put the next to last nail in the coffin of the community and guilds (final nail is queuing for arenas) and completely took everything I love about this game folded it up and wiped their ass with it.
    And that's understandable. But there are also many like me who don't want to have to tie themselves to specific people and just want to do whatever aspect of the game they enjoy on their own as much as possible. Most of these conveniences are aimed at just that, and I don't see anything wrong with it. The more social people can continue to be just that, while the rest of us don't have to if we don't want to. Besides, with the current mess servers are in, there wouldn't be much community in a lot of them anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guinzil View Post
    "Vocal minority" is a buzzword used by Blizzard to justify not having to listen and react to every complaint on the forum. Fact is only a small fraction of the WoW population is "vocal" about anything on the forums or on Twitter, be it positive or negative. So no matter what the argument is and whether it is in favor of or against Blizzard's ideas, they can always discard it as coming from a "vocal minority".

    A lot of people have been complaining about the game being too casual/easy/convenient. And yes, while they may seem like a minority when compared to the game's total population, they certainly aren't a minority when simply looking at the vocal part of said population (people who post on forums and Twitter).
    That's because people who don't have anything to complain about have little to no reason to be on forums. They're too busy playing.

  2. #382
    I am Murloc! Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    And that's understandable. But there are also many like me who don't want to have to tie themselves to specific people and just want to do whatever aspect of the game they enjoy on their own as much as possible. Most of these conveniences are aimed at just that, and I don't see anything wrong with it. The more social people can continue to be just that, while the rest of us don't have to if we don't want to. Besides, with the current mess servers are in, there wouldn't be much community in a lot of them anyway.
    And that is why they have single player RPGs, people who want to do things on their own and just queue are trying and SUCCEEDING in changing games people like ME love, I don't go onto other games and try and force my will onto them do I? THAT'S why I am so pissed off.

  3. #383
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    The best thing about LFR is: it won't go away again. Ever. No matter how many tears all those little whiney kids here on the forums shed.

    DEAL WITH IT!

  4. #384
    I am Murloc! Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasmiez View Post
    The best thing about LFR is: it won't go away again. Ever. No matter how many tears all those little whiney kids here on the forums shed.

    DEAL WITH IT!
    Nice insult, but I am 33, again thanks for proving my point that it's you people who are the ones doing all the insulting.

  5. #385
    Think it is very ignorant this comment by Ghostcrawler. Sure he is right that people do not argue for less convenience.

    But compagnies like Blizzard should also try to see the future. Weird perhaps but true. They should expect a result from giving more convenience to the playerbase. Eeven if they cry out for a certain feature. What would the effect be?

    Blizzard either obviously failed at doing so MULTIPLE times - or - they did so knowing stuff would happen but thought it would have more positive then negative aspects.

    Either way, inconvenience is not always a bad thing.

    I won't go into "what should never have been implemented". These things have been done and cannot be undone basically without screwing with a lot of peoples expectations on how the game works = probable sub loss if they do remove certain things.

  6. #386
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    Its interesting, in TBC it was all the casuals posting on the forums that the game was too hard! Now we have the same people telling people who want the game to be harder to shut up, double standards? Now I for one am a heroic raider, I like how that is at the moment.

    There are some things i don't like in the game, but really they don't bother me that much! LFR is ok, I go in there for a giggle at how bad people can play and don't take it too seriously but i play, don't die and move as i should to avoid stuff, but the problem there is even the less-skilled players do not take it seriously! 5 mans are a little shit, TBC had the best 5 man dungeons about interms of difficulty range. I think we will only see 3-man scenarios rather than 5-man dungeons in the next expansion, which is OK, they are quite good for storytelling and they are much quicker for the Looking For system, as they can just stick 3 dps together and off they go. But is quicker better? Guess thats what Blizz really need to work out.

  7. #387
    Herald of the Titans Darksoldierr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    ..of which 34 000 are considered active. The thread about the pet store had 1300 replies while a poll about it had 475 people voting. (Btw 300 of those were pro or agaisnt while 175 just didn't care). Those threads are then blown out of proportion like "Everyone is against the pet store"

    However when MMO C has pet or mount giveaways, suddenly you see 15 000 (!) replies. People just don't see as much an issue with many, many things that are brought up.
    Exactly my tought, people overthink the weight of "forum drama"
    Time is on our side
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  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    Not to derail, but how on earth can the game retain any respect when you can literally level from 1 - 90 in a weekend, then on the monday evening you can "Kill the bad guys that are somehow so powerful, but so weak that you and 24 retards can auto attack until they fall over and give you shiny lewts and even legendary items". Please explain to me how this is okay for the game to be? How can casual players enjoy (their view of) killing the final bosses with such ease?.
    OK, I'll take this bait. It took me weeks to level my shaman from 86-90. I guess if you count individual play sessions, it "only" took me about 40 hours (with full rest) over about 7 days, but still. And then it took more time to get my item level up for 5.0 LFR. I only recently got the item level for TOT LFR and that was with buying some Shado'pan Assault necklace and a JP trinket. It might be an instant process for you (because you play the game enough to know everything inside out) but for other players, it takes longer.

    Also, you can't just auto attack the bosses to death in LFR. I know you're being overly dramatic, but still. LFR's too easy, but it does have actual mechanics to the fights.

    I'm not saying this as someone who likes LFR. Personally, I hate it because it funnels EVERYBODY into it at 90 to gear up so they can move on to Normal of whatever the current tier of raids is. But it's not as stupid easy or instantly accessible as you make it out to be. Maybe for an alt, but not for someone's main. And I think most players do not play tons of alts. Hardcore players do because ever since Cataclysm it was both easy to level to cap and there wasn't much else to do after you finished your raids for the week. But casual players either have lots of low level alts or just one main character at 90.

    And to get to your last point: frankly, I raided hardcore in classic WOW and never, ever felt like the fights were a challenge of my skill as a player. I made it up to Twin Emperors before I got burned out on the tedium and stupid resistance gear check fights. In TBC I raided casually, which means (because TBC was an expansion for elitist trash) I pugged Karazahn several times. In WOTLK I did lots more pug raiding/raiding with friends and their guilds. That worked out nicely cause I managed to get through all the content up to Sindragosa on 10N. In Cata, I skipped all raids until 4.3. I wouldn't have minded raiding except it demanded that you be in a raid guild to do anything, and that meant I would have to abandon my friends. LFR might be pretty easy, but as someone with a LOT of video game playing skill outside of MMOs... WOW raiding has never, ever felt individually challenging for me. I admit that I haven't done bleeding edge content since TBC launched, but I frankly never felt lots of demand on my individual skill as a player in the game. It was 90% of the time "is this stupid DPS going to wipe us?" in the back of my head when a difficult mechanic came along.

  9. #389
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abysdruid View Post
    Its interesting, in TBC it was all the casuals posting on the forums that the game was too hard! Now we have the same people telling people who want the game to be harder to shut up, double standards? Now I for one am a heroic raider, I like how that is at the moment.

    There are some things i don't like in the game, but really they don't bother me that much! LFR is ok, I go in there for a giggle at how bad people can play and don't take it too seriously but i play, don't die and move as i should to avoid stuff, but the problem there is even the less-skilled players do not take it seriously! 5 mans are a little shit, TBC had the best 5 man dungeons about interms of difficulty range. I think we will only see 3-man scenarios rather than 5-man dungeons in the next expansion, which is OK, they are quite good for storytelling and they are much quicker for the Looking For system, as they can just stick 3 dps together and off they go. But is quicker better? Guess thats what Blizz really need to work out.
    I dunno, they seem quite pleased at how Challenge modes turned out, and sincere that no new 5s was a mistake. I think we'll see more of them next expac set up like scenarios, with Finder for Normal and make your own group for Heroic.

  10. #390
    Herald of the Titans Pancaspe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    A small vocal minority has been complaining. The vast majority has not.
    Blizzard sees REAL Data and knows what the playerbase likes to do.
    @Ghostcrawler:Some advice: [My pet issue] is why there were sub losses is one of the weaker arguments players use. Players don't have that data.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    That's because people who don't have anything to complain about have little to no reason to be on forums. They're too busy playing.
    That is an amazingly inaccurate statement. Majority of people play and if they don't like something, they quit. Obviously if they like it they'll keep playing but don't assume, like GC seems to, that because people remain quiet it means they like how things are. We sure as hell haven't seen 1.3 million posts in the past 3 months saying they are unhappy.

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    And that is why they have single player RPGs, people who want to do things on their own and just queue are trying and SUCCEEDING in changing games people like ME love, I don't go onto other games and try and force my will onto them do I? THAT'S why I am so pissed off.
    Seefer mate you took the words right out of my mouth.

    I don't get why this game that I absolutely LOVED has to change to cater to people who would rather play solo.

    Even now that I do not have time anymore to commit myself to a raiding guildstructure, I loathe LFR. I reluctantly do it though. It is an efficient way of gaining valor.

    People say: If you do not like it, don't do it!
    That's the most ignorant sentence ever! Why would you not do LFR if it is the most efficient? Is it fun? Hell no, but it is a means to an end. If they one day make scooping poop off the farm a major turn in for valor, I would do that. Would I like it? Hell no. It is the same with people who continue to say that people who dislike the flying feature should just stop flying and go on a ground mount. Right.... like people would do that even if they dislike that flying ever came into the game.

    I loved the 3/5 hours BRD runs in Vanilla. It was an adventure. That alone was reward enough. And because you spend so much time with people you don't know, you actually make friends. Nowadays you complete a LFD within 15/20 min. You probably do not even wipe once. How can you make friends in such a timeframe?

    Honestly the last time I made a friend in WoW not related to my heroic raiding guild, was back in WOTLK. The last time I had a friendly conversation with stranger was a week ago. But this was on my own server in the vale and totally out of the blue. This hasn't happened to me in AGES. Even if I try to talk to other people. While before mostly everyone was always in for a chat. Nowadays people pretend they didn't see the white chatbox or they don't think it is towards them (when they are the only one standing there). They don't seem to care anymore.

    So yeah... while I do not want Vanilla back in terms of all those insane things like 5 minute buffs and all those other insane things we did have back then, I do want a full server and only play with those people and get to know these people through hard and long dungeons (hard as in prenerf Cata or prenerf TBC dungeons and long as in Vanilla style).

    I don't mind content for casual players. I am casual right now. But the way they currently go about stuff isn't the way imo. But Blizzard is the compagny that owns this stuff and a lot of people seem to agree with that... so guess I need to just stop playing sometime soon and look for another game. Sadly there is no better game even with its current faults...

  13. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    So yeah... while I do not want Vanilla back in terms of all those insane things like 5 minute buffs and all those other insane things we did have back then, I do want a full server and only play with those people and get to know these people through hard and long dungeons (hard as in prenerf Cata or prenerf TBC dungeons and long as in Vanilla style).
    The reason many players aren't on full servers is that they haven't migrated to full servers while other players have.

    So, while you might say that allowing character migrations makes it a Blizzard-created problem, I personally think of empty servers solely as a player-created problem.

    Until servers are populated again, people who haven't moved to a "full" server are mostly stuck with random matchmaking tools, or going outside the box with oQueue, openRaid, et cetera. Hopefully 5.4 and virtual realms will liven things up.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Nice insult, but I am 33, again thanks for proving my point that it's you people who are the ones doing all the insulting.
    I find it shocking that 33 year olds are getting worked up over video game features that much.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    But compagnies like Blizzard should also try to see the future.
    Look to the future...by going back to the past?

    Yeah, sorry. But they are looking to the future. Its the complainers who are stuck in the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    I find it shocking that 33 year olds are getting worked up over video game features that much.
    And being overly defensive at a comment not even directed at him. Some might say he doth protest too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    So, while you might say that allowing character migrations makes it a Blizzard-created problem, I personally think of empty servers solely as a player-created problem.
    Partially, but its solvable by the players. It doesn't take long to level up a new character on a better server if you desperately want a better community but don't want to pay for a transfer.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    I find it shocking that 33 year olds are getting worked up over video game features that much.
    Its not just a video game mr Jimmy. WoW can also be a lifestyle or a big ass hobby. You might think that is sad. Whatever... but the best way to compare WoW for a lot of people = playing volleyball or another team sport. Guess getting worked up about changes to your favourite sport is also idiotic huh?

    Let's say that football is being changed so that offside is suddenly removed, because it is too hard (or whatever reason) for goals to be scored... You would let that slide right off your back right? You wouldn't care.

    Come on don't be ignorant like that.

    You can make fun of me if you want for telling you this... but there was a time when WoW meant EVERYTHING to me. It meant more to me then friends/family. It was an obsession. You bet your ass that if they implemented all these "LFR/CRZ" etc back then, I would be up on the bariccades... Now I don't care much anymore. I do still care but not in comparison.

    So please do not say "pff this is just a video game". It might be to you, but it might not be to another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    Look to the future...by going back to the past?

    Yeah, sorry. But they are looking to the future. Its the complainers who are stuck in the past.
    Dude I am not asking for them to go back to the past. I am saying that some stuff shouldn't seen the light of day. That they should have thought it through more. Blizzard themselves have said on the official forums that flying (to name one) should probably never seen the light of day. But it couldn't be removed anymore. So yeah... see the future...

  17. #397
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brunnor View Post
    That is an amazingly inaccurate statement. Majority of people play and if they don't like something, they quit. Obviously if they like it they'll keep playing but don't assume, like GC seems to, that because people remain quiet it means they like how things are. We sure as hell haven't seen 1.3 million posts in the past 3 months saying they are unhappy.
    Most people quit because of Time/Money, I think the close second is probably 'I can't play with friends anymore (either because they quit or guild split and finding a new home together is hard)'. They're not going to go free to play, because the pet store revenue couldn't sustain it; they need repeat purchases and the sub itself if just that - one off purchases of pets, mounts, transmog items, subjective art that not even a big minority will buy are not. So they need to fix the other thing, hense all the talk of 'forced socialisation' with a level of 'LFinstance easymode' and 'premade harder modes'. That's the direction the game is going. And it's a good one imho.

    Also someone mentioned earlier the ease of getting PvP gear; I think they have a good point. In TBC players went and lost a dozen BGs a week to gear up because it was more convenient and easier than doing Heroics. Probably a factor in why it was so hard to get a Heroic group - players were in BGs farming Honor instead.

  18. #398
    Lots of changes in wow are a one way street. Once I get a change that's convenient, I never want it removed. The irony is that I quit because LFR gives me all the new content in a week...even if I'm many months inactive and behind (like 6+).

  19. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    A small vocal minority has been complaining. The vast majority has not.
    Just out of curiosity.. how do we know?

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggity View Post
    Lots of changes in wow are a one way street. Once I get a change that's convenient, I never want it removed. The irony is that I quit because LFR gives me all the new content in a week...even if I'm many months inactive and behind (like 6+).
    Haha yeah thats exactly what I am doing right now. I just canceled my sub just because there is nothing new. Will probably resub when we can kill Garrosh and then cancel once again.

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