[Megathread] DotA 2

[Thallidomaniac]

I
The first step we’ll be taking is to release a larger set of training features, and retire the existing Dota 2 Invites.
What do they mean by training features?

Probably means adding an advanced concepts tutorial, teaching mechanics such as denying, maintaining lane equilibrium, warding, and dealing with invisible heroes.

[kronpas]

It'll take the system a while to appropriately place you in your correct skill bracket. Probably 10-15 games, real long time.

My friend's smurf accoutn got put back in VH after only 5 matches in public game, 2 of which he lost. There must be quite a few meters in place to determine your ranking.

[Longview]

And they give no information, and so far you seem to have received none after or "during" this so called launch.

This is the company that patched Counter-Strike to 1.6 and never touched it again. Not once. No communication. Biggest FPS since Quake. The very company who has a term for taking a long time to do anything. They have their own term.

I don't know what you were expecting, and I don't know why you still expect anything different after presumably having read all of our replies to your posts.

It took me two days to get in after making a new account and queuing. You should be able to play by now.

edit: If someone is collecting player cards I have a ton of dupes: http://steamcommunity.com/id/longviewftw/inventory#570

hmu

[Lysah]

My friend's smurf accoutn got put back in VH after only 5 matches in public game, 2 of which he lost. There must be quite a few meters in place to determine your ranking.

Yeah, I tried to smurf with a friend (figured it would help when trying to teach new players too) and was back in a page 1 game as early as like 9 games. System is pretty good at guessing skill, but I figure if you go 900 GPM 38-0 Jugg against average players the system will figure out pretty quick that you're not average.

[Grable]

Is there any way to see in which skill bracket ("page"/"VH" as you call it - dunno what they really mean) you are currently? I kind of hope DOTA2 would officially show that some day, kind of like with LoLs ranked leagues.

[Kjalar]

My friend's smurf accoutn got put back in VH after only 5 matches in public game, 2 of which he lost. There must be quite a few meters in place to determine your ranking.

I think KDA plays the biggest role in that. When I was playing supports on my smurf account, my stat was like 6-0 and I still was matched against lvl 4-6 players, having like 20+ wins. Once I started picking carry heroes and won 2 games with stats like 20-1-something, I started playing against people with 500+ wins.

[Deleted]

I've been dealing with this for the past month or so when I solo-queue. Has there been something wrong with MM lately? Because it never takes this long when I queue with a stack, not even close. And this isn't with the solo matchmaking box ticked, this should just be "regular" matchmaking.

[kronpas]

I think KDA plays the biggest role in that. When I was playing supports on my smurf account, my stat was like 6-0 and I still was matched against lvl 4-6 players, having like 20+ wins. Once I started picking carry heroes and won 2 games with stats like 20-1-something, I started playing against people with 500+ wins.

Thinking along the same line, since I mostly play gank/support and my own 'noob' account climbed back on the ladder way slower than his. I was in high after ~10-15 matches when my main acc got temp banned (unauthorized access).

Is there any way to see in which skill bracket ("page"/"VH" as you call it - dunno what they really mean) you are currently? I kind of hope DOTA2 would officially show that some day, kind of like with LoLs ranked leagues.

Check watch tab, filter by skill and type your own name into player box. Its vague though, if you are somewhere between 2 brackets (like me H/VH on solo and mostly VH on stack queue), you will never know exactly where you are currently at.

I've been dealing with this for the past month or so when I solo-queue. Has there been something wrong with MM lately? Because it never takes this long when I queue with a stack, not even close. And this isn't with the solo matchmaking box ticked, this should just be "regular" matchmaking.

I heard theres a bug that puts you on solo queue unintentionally, you might want to check it out.

[Grable]

I'm starting to lose my fucking cool with this game. 500 games in since I came back over from HoN and it's really starting to wear thin. (moved from DotA 1 to HoN)

I've lost 8 games in a row now due to feeding team mates.

This game needs a better matchmaking system and it needs one NOW.

I don't feel like I'm playing the game anymore. I feel like I'm playing against the matchmaking queue. Russian Roulette. Gambling.


Why is it so hard for them to implement a system that matches "High"(which is what it is telling me I am) skilled players against 9 other "High" skilled players.



Also: Where the fuck did the solo matchmaking button go? What the fuck.

Yeah I feel like the matchmaking is really crap when you go play pub games. Most of my pub games were lost because my teammates were new players while the other team had people with 100+ wins. I mean what the hell. I seriously try to avoid playing pub games nowadays, because it's downright horrible.

Solo matchmaking option went into options I think, however I would refrain from queueing there because solo matchmaking is even more broken than standard one.

[Charge me Doctor]

I'm starting to lose my fucking cool with this game. 500 games in since I came back over from HoN and it's really starting to wear thin. (moved from DotA 1 to HoN)

I've lost 8 games in a row now due to feeding team mates.

This game needs a better matchmaking system and it needs one NOW.

I don't feel like I'm playing the game anymore. I feel like I'm playing against the matchmaking queue. Russian Roulette. Gambling.


Why is it so hard for them to implement a system that matches "High"(which is what it is telling me I am) skilled players against 9 other "High" skilled players.



Also: Where the fuck did the solo matchmaking button go? What the fuck.

It was the same in wc3 dota. You didn't knew skill level of players who walked into lobby, but you could kick them (if you ignore in dota 2, you won't get them in your games anymore) so basically it's the same as it used to be.

Making matchmaking system is hard because it will have flaws (league of legends), community will flame people for having low score, and others will flame for having higher score than everyone in their team. I don't want to talk about this again, but making a matchmaking system via points (mmr or whatever) will make community even worse, and this will lead to decay of player base.

If you don't want unskilled players in your team, you need to stop playing this game. It's online game and until you will have 5v5 custom lobby it will always be gambling.


And i didn't used solo que system because it's too boring. Playing against premades are fun

[Kjalar]

I've lost 8 games in a row now due to feeding team mates.

Have you met retards that buy no regen (since they want fast Midas or something) and get killed by the Tidebringer spam alone?

Maybe it'll become better as more people will join the game. I feel that right now the playerbase is too small, so the MM system basically grabs everyone who's in the queue at the moment to create a game ASAP.

[Deleted]

Have you guys ever considered that maybe.
Just maybe.
You're at the rating you're supposed to be at.

[caractacus]

Have you guys ever considered that maybe.
Just maybe.
You're at the rating you're supposed to be at.

How dare you even suggest this

[Kjalar]

Have you guys ever considered that maybe.
Just maybe.
You're at the rating you're supposed to be at.

You know the difference between 'rating' and 'matchmaking'? I'm talking about the latter.

For example, a mediocre player enters the queue. As long as there are only 9 other people currently in the queue, no matter how godly/terrible they are, the guy will play with/against them.

Of course, there are usually more than 9 people in the queue. Yet every time I wait for 7+ minutes, the search range becomes so wide I end up getting a weird match. IMO, that's a direct result of the game having rather low population.

[Hraklea]

Have you guys ever considered that maybe.
Just maybe.
You're at the rating you're supposed to be at.

I've had this discussion a thousand times with LoL players (I don't play LoL anymore, no need to troll me =P). Except for all the top players claiming "Dunning Krieger effect" - which is a two way road: high elo players don't want to accept that the rating system is broken because that would mean they are not as good as they think they are -, the conclusion we had is that solo queue requires a different set of skills than premades, and probably one of the most important is leadership. There are people that know what their team is don't wrong, knows how to win, but they can't convince their teams to do what is right.

[Charge me Doctor]

Playing against premades are fun are they? You must have your own premade then because you aren't winning solo against premades unless they're throwing.

Losing repeatedly when it isn't your fault is not fun.


Any system has its flaws mate but a points based system is better than this shit.

Tell me what is wrong with grouping 1300 rated players with each other. They don't get repeatedly stomped. They can learn new heroes. They don't have their team abusing them constantly. This will keep them in the game to slowly BUILD that rating up and slowly play more skilled players.

DotA 2s learning curve is its biggest deterrent because noobs get stomped repeatedly. The tutorial is not enough.


Why is it bad to have a full game of TEN people all rated around 1800? We all get to have an enjoyable game. No one ruins the game for us and no one ruins the game for noobs. Stopping smurf(read: new accounts with low rating used to troll/stomp noobs) accounts is simple too. Don't let a new account play ranked games until its completed the tutorial and a certain number of bot matches.

The current system is dog shit.



Then there is the theories going around in certain forums that if you win 5 games in a row the matchmaking will purposefully throw you into games with people it KNOWS have no clue what they are doing. All because they don't want you having a massive win %. /tinfoilhat

Yes, it's fun and interesting, because you can see how good some heroes work with each other. Or you think that if you have two people premade playing smoothly, getting kills and provide vision good, but if they are on enemy team it's bad and not fun? Wow.

You won't get a game of 10 people with 1800 mmr, because you will get game with 1800 at average. Then the guy with 1790 will flame at the guy with 1710 for not buying chicken because he has lower elo.
Getting stomped is a way to learn the game too. You don't need to win all the time to be a better player.

Currently, they have their hidden mmr system and you are placed with players of your "skill" level (with same average wins/loses/kda/creep score/games played/games leaved/games lost today/games won today/what you ate at breakfast/how is your mood now/whatever else) and i often notice that more game i win, more stronger players i face. When winning streak ends, i still have strong players in my games but if i keep losing, i face more and more SF mid with 10 cs at 7 minute (not only on my side, i often find horrible opponents and try to get fed from them to secure win).

And this theory of having win stream and suddenly being threw to a team full of noobs is awesome. You have same odds to get noobs in your team with 10 wins streak, it doesn't mean that being at 1800 rating will save you from playing with people who have/are connection issues/bad day/wan't to play hero that they didn't played for months/tries new meepo build/trolls/kitchen or cat on fire.
And you do know that winning/losing lane requires luck too? I mean, if you got random hit from nature prophet ult in the same as BH popped out on you and you gave away FB.
Or when enemy gets his ult earlier because you had to back off to get items from courier so he won't be sniper by the same nature prophet.
Or even when you got forced to leave lane as weaver/brood mother because of tons of sentries on you lane but your team doesn't care.
Can you say that's you fault for losing because of this? No. But you will be blamed for it and you will get angry. And when you are angry you start playing very bad (like landing "revenge" kill on enemy by diving into tower at half health just to eat global silence and get killed).

All i can say is the players you meet in your games plays on the same level as you most of the time. I know that many people won't care about "most of the time" part, but it's very important. You won't play on the same skill level, sometimes you play better, sometimes you play worse it depends on many many MANY things going on, and matchmaking is not one of them

[caractacus]

You know the difference between 'rating' and 'matchmaking'? I'm talking about the latter.

For example, a mediocre player enters the queue. As long as there are only 9 other people currently in the queue, no matter how godly/terrible they are, the guy will play with/against them.

Of course, there are usually more than 9 people in the queue. Yet every time I wait for 7+ minutes, the search range becomes so wide I end up getting a weird match. IMO, that's a direct result of the game having rather low population.

Hmmm. I'm from the UK and played around 800 games and I don't think I have ever had to wait more then 7 mins for a game. currently I usually get a game after about 1 min of queueing sometimes sooner it seems to be a lot quicker recently. Can I ask do you have many abandons? I have 3, all due to connection problems my end. I think there might be a priority system regarding abandons and reports. My advice would be have as least amount of abandons as possible and be nice in games.

[Deleted]

I'm a complete noob (played about 25 games total) at Dota and probably play far worse then the average player, but I already feel a huge difference in team balance between games. I mean sometimes my team wins in 20 minutes and everyone is helpful and works together, place wards in the right spots, buy meaningful items etc, while the next game I play with Pudges who waste all mana by hooking creeps and supports that try to rush to Butterflies and Mantas while speaking only Russian.

Everyone makes mistakes, me probably more then most, but it becomes pretty boring fast as no matter if I make 50 mistakes or 5 the outcome of the game is pretty much predetermined from the start.

[Deleted]

You know the difference between 'rating' and 'matchmaking'? I'm talking about the latter.

For example, a mediocre player enters the queue. As long as there are only 9 other people currently in the queue, no matter how godly/terrible they are, the guy will play with/against them.

Of course, there are usually more than 9 people in the queue. Yet every time I wait for 7+ minutes, the search range becomes so wide I end up getting a weird match. IMO, that's a direct result of the game having rather low population.

You can't claim to know anything about the second without knowing about the first.

That's why I'm situated between High and Very High right bud? Must also why I repeatedly get not ONE, not TWO but sometimes THREE feeders/people with no clue whilst the other team is like some kind of Zerg hive mind with their co ordination and general High skill level.

Cue Longview linking the post about how your 'replay bracket' has nothing to do with your MMR for the 15th time.

[caractacus]

I'm a complete noob (played about 25 games total) at Dota and probably play far worse then the average player, but I already feel a huge difference in team balance between games. I mean sometimes my team wins in 20 minutes and everyone is helpful and works together, place wards in the right spots, buy meaningful items etc, while the next game I play with Pudges who waste all mana by hooking creeps and supports that try to rush to Butterflies and Mantas while speaking only Russian.

Everyone makes mistakes, me probably more then most, but it becomes pretty boring fast as no matter if I make 50 mistakes or 5 the outcome of the game is pretty much predetermined from the start.

I used to get put with loads of russians when I first started. My advice would be keep playing, report anyone for genuine reasons, don't abandon and just be nice in game or if your like me "if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all. You should find after a while you start playing with a much better calibre of player. I still get the odd russian but generally they are not abusive, try to play as a team and try communicating in english to the best of their ability.