The lore of 5.4 is so bad...

[Mawnix]

Because the sound files ended up being far off from the facepalmingly pathetic reality of the story when it goes live?

So mind explaining what's so pathetic about it then? I'm beginning to believe there's no pleasing you lot.

[Chickat]

Knowing Voljin, had this been the other way around, he wouldn't enslave the alliance. Why should Varian enslave the horde? That would make him worse then Garrosh. They righted the wrongs caused by Garrosh, and the new horde deserves a chance for redemption.

[Aquamonkey]

tauren - nearly extinct tribe of tauren when wow began

Common misconception. The nearly extinct tribe of Tauren encountered in WC3 was the Bloodhoof. Since then, nearly all the other Tauren tribes joined the Horde under High Chieftain Cairne.

[Immitis]

Common misconception. The nearly extinct tribe of Tauren encountered in WC3 was the Bloodhoof. Since then, nearly all the other Tauren tribes joined the Horde under High Chieftain Cairne.

well then that makes tauren the only non endangered race of horde other than orcs.

and with the majority of the forsaken doing there own thing in eastern kingdoms that puts the bulk of horde military in bad place for right now

[Mawnix]

1. Orcs do not make up the majority of the Horde military. Orcs however do make up the majority of the Kor'kron Elite.

2. Even if the majority of Orcs sided with Garrosh, the orcs only comprise 1 of 7 Horde races, hardly a majority.

3. The Alliance is more united then ever, I do have to give him that.

4. I would argue that the majority of the Horde is more united then ever under a new common cause to rid them of Garrosh, and are far from broken. I have absolutely no clue as to where he gets that the majority of its forces are dead. Even with heavy deaths from the siege it would hardly be a majority.

5. Is purely his opinion, and mine is that he is wrong.

1. No, Orcs have always made up a majority of the Horde just like Humans for the Alliance.

2. Just because they're 1/7 doesn't indicate numbers of the actual race. Honestly if you paid attention to most NPCs and races you'd see, it'd be Orcs>Trolls>Undead>=Goblin/Tauren>Blood Elves>Pandaren.

3. Yay agreed.

4. How are they united? Yeah, the sub races of the Horde are now united, but under what? A banner that symbolizes civil war and killing your own brethren? Even though the Horde are now united against the tyranny that is Garrosh, they're besieging their capital city, killing their fellow Horde members (former brothers in arms), and losing a majority of their war power. They're splintered and broken. Even Wrathion states if Varian hadn't decided to take the option of peace he could've kept Orgrimmar and rand-sacked Thunder Bluff. Face it: the Horde, though united and closer than ever before, are also shattered by the end of the Siege.

5. Opinions are opinions, but opinions supported by logical thinking and facts are better said.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Because the sound files ended up being far off from the facepalmingly pathetic reality of the story when it goes live?

Because we only have half the story here, maybe less. We don't know what Varian says. We don't know what happens after Garrosh is defeated.

[Mocha]

darkspear - nearly extinct tribe of trolls when wow began

tauren - nearly extinct tribe of tauren when wow began

blood elves - something like 90% of their entire race is dead

goblins - a splinter faction of the goblins

forsaken - until cataclysm were a small force that could barely hold lordaeron.

pandaren - only a small handful of adventurers join the alliance and horde

orcs - tons of orcs

there has been 4 years since wow started in the timeline

vanilla is one year

bc is one year

wrath is one year

cata plus mists = one year

please tell me how, outside of the forsaken any of those races managed to breed themselves out of near extinction?

I think you are off on your time estimates. WOW time =/= real life time. As far as your population estimates; I can't refute stats that were made up.

[Mawnix]

I think you are off on your time estimates. WOW time =/= real life time. As far as your population estimates; I can't refute stats that were made up.

Those aren't made up time frames. That's literally what the time differences were as said by Blizzard.

[Lazuli]

WoW lore has been pretty much dogshit since Cata so.

[Immitis]

I think you are off on your time estimates. WOW time =/= real life time. As far as your population estimates; I can't refute stats that were made up.

blizzard has previously said every expansion is a year, and when asked about how long mists is on twitter metzen said cata plus mists is one year and the rest are one year each, if you dont believe me you can go on his twitter and find it, it was around mists launch.

and the population estimates arent made up

the darkspear were being hunted to extinction by naga and humans and other troll tribes

the forsaken were being hunted by the scarlet crusade, the scourge, and after betraying the alliance were being attacked on sight by alliance settlements. they started to rebound now with the help of the valkyr

the pandaren are a small group of adventurers, its made clear that the ones who join the alliance and horde are the most adventurous of the pandaren on the turtle

the goblins of the bilgwater cartel are but one of many cartels of goblins. so while the goblin race itself isnt endangered the ones in the horde are not in anyway the majority of the race.

its been stated the scourge wiped out around 90% of the high elves/blood elves. then of whats left 10% remained in the alliance and while its never stated how much a good portion followed kael'thas and died in outland.

the orcs however had many many numbers since the dark council magically aged tons of orcs to invade azeroth with.

[want my Slimjim]

Deathwing was a complete letdown.

lol, that's a laugh. From from it actually.

[Flaks]

There must always be a.. <ominous lightning strike> Horde..

This pretty much.

Blizzard likes taking things too far. You want convenience? Here's more than you could ever wish for at the cost of flavor.

You want gameplay? Well there goes the game's lore down the drain.

[Mocha]

1. No, Orcs have always made up a majority of the Horde just like Humans for the Alliance.

2. Just because they're 1/7 doesn't indicate numbers of the actual race. Honestly if you paid attention to most NPCs and races you'd see, it'd be Orcs>Trolls>Undead>=Goblin/Tauren>Blood Elves>Pandaren.

3. Yay agreed.

4. How are they united? Yeah, the sub races of the Horde are now united, but under what? A banner that symbolizes civil war and killing your own brethren? Even though the Horde are now united against the tyranny that is Garrosh, they're besieging their capital city, killing their fellow Horde members (former brothers in arms), and losing a majority of their war power. They're splintered and broken. Even Wrathion states if Varian hadn't decided to take the option of peace he could've kept Orgrimmar and rand-sacked Thunder Bluff. Face it: the Horde, though united and closer than ever before, are also shattered by the end of the Siege.

5. Opinions are opinions, but opinions supported by logical thinking and facts are better said.

1. Orcs and Humans are the centerpiece races since that is what Warcraft started out with. It does not mean they are a majority of their faction, and I personally have never read anything that has stated that.

2. I have no idea what you are referring to as far as NPCs denoting an accurate census of a population. I know many times an NPCs contain more opinions then facts in their text.

3. NA

4. The sub races, including many orcs, are united under the Horde, because they are the Horde. It's Garrosh and his Kor'kron elite that have gone astray. I just simply disagree with your statement that the Horde lost the majority of their war power. It's definitely not as consolidated as it should be, which would give the Alliance the upper hand for awhile, but the Horde aren't the only ones that have lost key figures, military might, and population throughout this expansion and before. Wrathion while isn't infallible, as evidence by being upset that things didn't go as he planned; just because he says something doesn't make it true.

5. I agree, except sometimes that logical thinking and "facts" turn out to be more opinions.

[Aquamonkey]

blizzard has previously said every expansion is a year, and when asked about how long mists is on twitter metzen said cata plus mists is one year and the rest are one year each, if you dont believe me you can go on his twitter and find it, it was around mists launch.

Official timeline puts a year between each expansion. Doesn't mention time between Wrath to Cata.

According to Kosak, Cata happens 7 years after the Battle for Hyjal, putting it 1 year after WotLK.

Matoclaw was just estimating when she says "a decade ago." It was closer to ... what, seven years I think? (Source)

Then DW death to end of MoP is 1 year.

Alright. So, Deathwings death to Theramore's event is a year?
More like DW death till end of Pandaria is a year. (Source)

[Mawnix]

lol, that's a laugh. From from it actually.

...Please tell me you're joking.

[Immitis]

Alright. So, Deathwings death to Theramore's event is a year?
More like DW death till end of Pandaria is a year. (Source)

Official timeline. Doesn't mention time between Wrath to Cata.

guess i misread that tweet. still that only adds on an extra year. 5 years isnt enough to rebuild an entire species

- - - Updated - - -

1. Orcs and Humans are the centerpiece races since that is what Warcraft started out with. It does not mean they are a majority of their faction, and I personally have never read anything that has stated that.

2. I have no idea what you are referring to as far as NPCs denoting an accurate census of a population. I know many times an NPCs contain more opinions then facts in their text.

3. NA

4. The sub races, including many orcs, are united under the Horde, because they are the Horde. It's Garrosh and his Kor'kron elite that have gone astray. I just simply disagree with your statement that the Horde lost the majority of their war power. It's definitely not as consolidated as it should be, which would give the Alliance the upper hand for awhile, but the Horde aren't the only ones that have lost key figures, military might, and population throughout this expansion and before. Wrathion while isn't infallible, as evidence by being upset that things didn't go as he planned; just because he says something doesn't make it true.

5. I agree, except sometimes that logical thinking and "facts" turn out to be more opinions.

its been stated many times that humans and orcs make up the bulk the alliance and horde military.

the majority of playable races are all nearly extinct.

on the alliance side there is

worgen

draenei

and gnomes

[Decisive The Hallowed]

If I remember correctly, it was pretty much Garrosh who has thrown so much damage and war at the Alliance. There was a point when Varian and Thrall were almost going to agree peace with both Factions.
So pretty much killing Garrosh is the best thing Varian can do.

[chocobo606]

The reason is simple: World of Warcraft. If 5.4 was a book and they were telling an amazing story for 5.5 5.6 5.7, they could make it as you want.

[Synros]

One word: Metzen.

[Nuvuk]

Am I the only one who finds it ridiculous that the entire lore of 5.4 is summed up with "Varian practically conquers the Horde (a faction has been murdering his people and invading his lands for MANY YEARS) by killing and dethroning their Warchief with the help of some rebels, and then decides to let his biggest enemy pick a new Warchief and continue invading his land and threatening to destroy the Alliance."? How is that logical in any way? What nation would give their enemies an opportunity to gain in strength and gain power again? And doesn't this basically force the Horde to "kiss up" to the alliance from now on?.

You must not know much about history. There have been plenty of times through out history where one country, nation or race has let another continue to exist even though they where just fighting. Also the alliance letting the horde get a new warchief might just be the alliance side of the raid, The horde side they might not have the choice. As for the sucking up to the alliance, no one likes to be in the dog house but perhaps Varien wanted to show he has changed as a leader. No matter how big or small the situation is a good person is a person who lets others live their lives.