[Holy] Patch 5.4 PTR - Changes Discussion

[Deleted]

[Pasture]

Does Bloodlust affect the cooldown? And Divine Favour?

Or static haste only?

[Deleted]

Does Bloodlust affect the cooldown? And Divine Favour?

Or static haste only?

Bloodlust affects it. DF does not. GoAK affects it.

Anything granting either "Haste" or "Melee Haste" should affect it. Melee attack speed/Spell Haste/ Etc does not.

[Floopa]

I don't agree with this or well I don't see it happening. Resto Druids and Mistweavers already have INSANE spread out healing, without absorbs paladins would never be able to contest that.

Its like having a class do 200k(random numbers) to another classes's 50k, and you buff the 50k class to 100k. The other class still does 200k, your change while being 100% actually changes nothing.

I don't think anything more will change on the PTR sadly. In a month (or at most a month and a half) the patch will hit live. Only on live will Blizzard change anything.

Do you think there should be more or less absorbs present in the game?

[Deleted]

Do you think there should be more or less absorbs present in the game?

I think there should be no absorbs in the game. I also think there should be no Attonement, no ReM,no 10 million Revivals and so on. We're too late in the PTR/Patch for such changes though, at this point I'd be happy for a class that's viable and its not happening in the current path Blizzard is taking.

[Vathius]

Make judging worth it- a debufff or something..., I don't fancy another GCD for limp wrist damage.

Judgement applies denounce for example. fixed.

[Deleted]

Morning folks.

I have been avidly following the various threads that have been going round concerning HPala numbers in the PTR, EF nerf's and the buffing of various other classes. I am not a long standing HPala player, neither am I a top ranked one by any standards. However, I would like the to think my views bear just as much weight as anyone else's.

I am also fully aware that people will always claim their class is under-powered, not pulling enough numbers etc, this is just natural and in some cases is true whilst in other's will be purely to make a scene. I read a comment from Aladya the other day mentioning about players getting to used to be OP and as soon as they are nerfed or brought back to ground its a culture shock which they immediately cry about.

I also read the post's on the forum this morning and although I think Blizz have headed in the right direction trying to rework SH and SS, some of the comments really made me boggle. A post commented on the lack of throughput for Holy in the PTR, to which the Blizz reply was "Is this proof somewhere we can see and analyze?". Now, I am not saying that they are under-powered despite the various threads here, but surely the idea of a PTR is for Blizz to take numbers from fights and analyze them to see if they are remotely balanced?

Secondly, I read through the post's on Shaman's and somebody else commented on the fact that if Shaman's get HTT baseline, why don't Paladin's get ET baseline. The answer was that they want Shaman's to use totems, they don't want all Paladin's to use HoT's. This once again made me query the logic behind Blizz's direction. To my knowledge Shaman's already have 7-8 baseline totem's, a couple of which are hugely important to Restoration specifically in Healing Steam and Spirit Link. Any good Shaman will be using totem's, making HTT baseline is just Blizz giving in to pressure from Shaman's in all honesty.

If they don't want Paladin's to be using HoT's, then why implement one in the first place? I have used EF to great effect and would not want it removed, but if your going to give a class an ability you cannot later down the line claim you do not want them to use it.

Their are a multitude of talents that are pretty much mandatory for certain specs throughout the game, name a class and a spec and their will be a talent that is used by over 80% of that population. Let some talents be mandatory!

Finally, just want to say its not all Blizz bashing, ToT and from the looks of it SoO will and have been very good raids and I have thoroughly enjoyed working through them.

Polo

[nightfalls]

I think there should be no absorbs in the game. I also think there should be no Attonement, no ReM,no 10 million Revivals and so on. We're too late in the PTR/Patch for such changes though, at this point I'd be happy for a class that's viable and its not happening in the current path Blizzard is taking.

Agreed 100%, I'm not completely against absorbs but they need to be a flat % and not scaling with mastery IMO, that way your absorbs are only as good as a % of your direct healing. Inevitably what happens otherwise is that you put more stats into your absorbs, and they take over versus your direct heals.

Also something that needs to go is low-CD or no-CD smart heals. Again not against smart heals at all but they need pretty heavy limitations (CD or resource based).

[mcbubble]

Does anyone know when the 25m testing will begin?
Also, does anyone have any other PTR logs?
The only one I've seen were Pacers logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/t6k5ofiuw0lewafg/

[Tiberria]

Agreed 100%, I'm not completely against absorbs but they need to be a flat % and not scaling with mastery IMO, that way your absorbs are only as good as a % of your direct healing. Inevitably what happens otherwise is that you put more stats into your absorbs, and they take over versus your direct heals.

Also something that needs to go is low-CD or no-CD smart heals. Again not against smart heals at all but they need pretty heavy limitations (CD or resource based).

What Smart Heals really are there that are not CD or resource based?

Paladin - Light of Dawn (resource), Holy Prism (I think it's a smart heal - cooldown)
Priest - Circle of Healing (cooldown), Prayer of Mending (cooldown), Divine Hymn (cooldown)
Monk - Renewing Mists (cooldown), L30 talents (cooldown - I think they are smart heals?)
Druid - Wild Growth (cooldown), Efflorvescence (cooldown), Tranquility (cooldown)
Shaman - Chain Heal (no cooldown), Healing Stream Totem (cooldown), Healing Tide Totem (cooldown)

Isn't Chain Heal really the only spammable Smart Heal? I guess you could count Attonement and Monk DPS healing mechanics.

[Freia]

Atonement is the biggest culprit that everyone refers to. It pretty much killed the real need for spot healing.

[Floopa]

I think there should be no absorbs in the game. I also think there should be no Attonement, no ReM,no 10 million Revivals and so on. We're too late in the PTR/Patch for such changes though, at this point I'd be happy for a class that's viable and its not happening in the current path Blizzard is taking.

Are you asking for a return to vanilla healing because that would seriously kill the ability to design 'complex' encounters. Most encounters are complex because the mechanics they have are healable using all these 'fire and forget' spells, if we returned to vanilla it would be a lot harder to design such an encounter. I can't agree with that personally.

[Tiberria]

I do think that even from Cata to MoP, the level of smart heals, absorbs and passive healing has largely shifted healing away from a proactive, reactionary, instinctive role to something that is more and more becoming like executing a DPS rotation. In the process, they have really removed a lot of skill out of the healing role. In general, they should tone back the strength of smart heals, automatic procs, and put more emphasis on the healing that actual intelligent decision making is based on (i.e. single target heals and targeted heals). Of course, that is something that will require a complete redesign of all 6 specs, and won't happen until at least next expansion.

[Floopa]

I do think that even from Cata to MoP, the level of smart heals, absorbs and passive healing has largely shifted healing away from a proactive, reactionary, instinctive role to something that is more and more becoming like executing a DPS rotation. In the process, they have really removed a lot of skill out of the healing role. In general, they should tone back the strength of smart heals, automatic procs, and put more emphasis on the healing that actual intelligent decision making is based on (i.e. single target heals and targeted heals). Of course, that is something that will require a complete redesign of all 6 specs, and won't happen until at least next expansion.

Won't happen ever sadly. It's a sad state of affairs but you're right, healing lost a lot of it's skill, so much so that IMO the "toughest" role to play in a raid nowadays is a DPS class.

[mcbubble]

Won't happen ever sadly. It's a sad state of affairs but you're right, healing lost a lot of it's skill, so much so that IMO the "toughest" role to play in a raid nowadays is a DPS class.

I do not agree with that at all.
Playing a healer class is still harder than DPS and tank in heroic content just due to raid awareness while playing whack-a-mole.

That being said, I agree that atonement has the biggest impact to other healers, and unfortunately it's here to stay.
Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler20 Jul
@WinnifredPriest Atonement is fun and we like seeing more PW:S use now than we had in 5.0, so we (gently) hit SS and Rapture.

[Cairhiin]

Atonement is causing most of the healer balance issues in 10 for a start, plus it infringes on our niche (burst spot healing - well I guess that is our niche, wouldn't know what else it would be) but somehow Blizzard is fine with that.

[Simulacrum]

I do not agree with that at all.
Playing a healer class is still harder than DPS and tank in heroic content just due to raid awareness while playing whack-a-mole.

Being a healer is only really hard because we need to look at our raid frames while playing, instead of wherever we feel like the way that a DPS can.

Besides that, healers often have it a lot easier, and today healers have it stupidly easy. As long as you have the 'rotation' down, it's almost all spam spam spam as fast as possible and as much as possible. But then I guess healing will always turn out this way during the later parts of expansions, with increased mana regen and throughput forcing more damaging machanics to compensate, which naturally leads to this.

I can't even think of any way to avoid this without basically removing gear scaling for healers entirely?

Personally I always really like healing the first few tiers of every expansion. After that it starts to get... well, it doesn't feel a lot different from playing a dps, especially in 25s.

[Deleted]

Also, does anyone have any other PTR logs?

Yep, here are the logs of our LFR run...

Immerseus:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...ne/?s=25&e=578

Protectors:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...?s=1256&e=1698

Norushen (didn't kill him):
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...?s=4546&e=4979


And yes, we were 7 healer's because we didn't have enough DDs ready on the PTR. But our resto shaman had massive FPS problems - I really would have like to see her perform on Protectors.

[Theholypally]

Just another case of people not actually playing the classes they are trying to fix.

They claim they have data supporting these changes, when raid data proves otherwise. When the raid data is posted, it is ignored. When its not posted, they say "where is the data?"

Getting pretty sick and tired of changing healing style every expansion tbh. Especially when going back to the judgement healing style is so lack luster in its current form.

[Deleted]

Yep, here are the logs of our LFR run...

Running lfr with what I asume is 7 decent healers does not prove anything at all. For a proper test the bosses need to do more damage or you need to use way less healers.