[spoiler] Ghostcrawler confirms ridiculous Alliance outcome in 5.4

[Maximus Testiculos]

Don't you mean the Forsaken, after discovering their Sentience, reclaim their homes, despite their former allies and comrades not being able to see their own life and attacking them simply for being undead?

No matter how Bitter and evil the forsaken act now, it is entirely due to the actions of those around them. They are called Forsaken for a reason. They earned their homeland.

Nobody attacked the forsaken. Their first act was betraying humans that fought with them and then continuously murdering farmers. There is no justification for forsaken. If they were not a playable faction they would easily be the next raid. And we killed many races for lesser reasons.

[Deleted]

Don't you mean the Forsaken, after discovering their Sentience, reclaim their homes, despite their former allies and comrades not being able to see their own life and attacking them simply for being undead?

No matter how Bitter and evil the forsaken act now, it is entirely due to the actions of those around them. They are called Forsaken for a reason. They earned their homeland.

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Putress, a huge jagged dagger into the "Shades of Grey" Forsaken.

People always forget he was the one that cured the Zombie Plague.

Well you can justify people being scared of the undead and attacking them. You seem to forget, but the undead plague messed up the whole northen kingdoms. And the horrors the scourge inflicted upon the living are legendary. Forsaken or not, sentient or not, people have the right to fear them.

[Holtzmann]

No matter how Bitter and evil the forsaken act now, it is entirely due to the actions of those around them. They are called Forsaken for a reason. They earned their homeland.

And by being bitter and evil they also earned their enemies. Isn't cause and effect fun?

[Dreknar20]

. They are called Forsaken for a reason. .

Forsaken by the living
Forsaken by the light
They only have each other

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And by being bitter and evil they also earned their enemies. Isn't cause and effect fun?

thats how conflict works
One sides feels iritated by others, they do stuff to them
Giving fuel for that other side to hate and then attack them
Which in turn gives more reason for the first side to continue attacking..........

[Aquamonkey]

Forsaken by the living
Forsaken by the light
They only have each other

Vol'jin: I'll tell ya what de Horde is. De Horde dat me an' Thrall built. It be a family. When de whole world try ta put us down, de family come an' pick us back up.

[Deleted]

Nobody attacked the forsaken. Their first act was betraying humans that fought with them and then continuously murdering farmers. There is no justification for forsaken. If they were not a playable faction they would easily be the next raid. And we killed many races for lesser reasons.

Humans. Whose Commander just told them straight up.

"These are our lands, not yours, you filthy undead abominations."

To the very forsaken whom lived in those lands. Who just fought for them.

Sure, their actions are questionable, but so is trying to kill them "for being Monsters" when they were thinking sentient undead.

[Arcanist]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I've played both sides and I'm the type of person who reads quests and dialogues. It is clear to me that the Horde has better writing, better lore, and better characters while the Alliance stuff is something they work on if there's still time after finishing work on their favorite faction. So, so, obvious that a lot of Alliance stuff is a half-assed afterthought.

We don't want to destroy the Horde and have it be game over. What a lot of Alliance players want is quality lore and writing that make sense and more character development. You know, an actual story where Alliance are more than mere props for a Horde saga.

[Dreknar20]

Oh, they sure are. Because at the time said character was not a raid boss

And now he is, which kinda dillutes those "fist-pump moments"

[Trassk]

thats how conflict works
One sides feels iritated by others, they do stuff to them
Giving fuel for that other side to hate and then attack them
Which in turn gives more reason for the first side to continue attacking..........

And thus we come to the entire sphere that is the pandaren message about balance and why do we fight.

[Deleted]

What I wanted for the ending of SoO was that after Garrosh is dead, Varian deals with the new warchief for both factions to lay arms at least for a while and regenerate some of their power. Then someone like Sylvanas disagrees and Varians hands her ass to her verbally. Then she leaves. That would have been a cool moment for the alliance, being the good guys, but also showing some teeth.

[Deleted]

What I wanted for the ending of SoO was that after Garrosh is dead, Varian deals with the new warchief for both factions to lay arms at least for a while and regenerate some of their power. Then someone like Sylvanas disagrees and Varians hands her ass to her verbally. Then she leaves. That would have been a cool moment for the alliance, being the good guys, but also showing some teeth.

Yet when Vol'jin is a little sassy to Alliance players they throw a bitch fit about it.

Basically, you want to one up the Horde, Without the Horde ever One upping you.

[Maximus Testiculos]

Humans. Whose Commander just told them straight up.

"These are our lands, not yours, you filthy undead abominations."

To the very forsaken whom lived in those lands. Who just fought for them.

Sure, their actions are questionable, but so is trying to kill them "for being Monsters" when they were thinking sentient undead.

Sylvanas said 'i will see that you get your lands back' to his face. And then talked to varimathras how she was going to betray them after the fight. And garithos did not call her undead abomination. He called her 'my lady'.

Forsaken can't be excused with everything they have done.

[Holtzmann]

Yet when Vol'jin is a little sassy to Alliance players they throw a bitch fit about it.

Basically, you want to one up the Horde, Without the Horde ever One upping you.

Saying "you're not really in a position to be sassy" is throwing a bitch fit now? Alright, then...

[Deleted]

Sylvanas said 'i will see that you get your lands back' to his face. And then talked to varimathras how she was going to betray them after the fight. And garithos did not call her undead abomination. He called her 'my lady'.

Forsaken can't be excused with everything they have done.

Turnabout is foul play. he was going to push out the Forsaken, the Forsaken refused. Shades of grey. This does not mean they should be totally destroyed, as everyone as times of dishonourable conduct.

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Saying "you're not really in a position to be sassy" is throwing a bitch fit now? Alright, then...

No, but the WoW and MMO champion forums stalling in their polls about High Elves to rant and gnash about a one line quip is.

[Deleted]

Yet when Vol'jin is a little sassy to Alliance players they throw a bitch fit about it.

Basically, you want to one up the Horde, Without the Horde ever One upping you.

Dude do you remember Theramore? That giant purple crater?

[Deleted]

Dude do you remember Theramore? That giant purple crater?

Did you remember Theramore being a Military fortress supplying the Alliance with a direct way to attack the barrens?

[Dreknar20]

Did you remember Theramore being a Military fortress supplying the Alliance with a direct way to attack the barrens?

Theramore is more a city than a fortress. Northwatch is an example of a fortress.
But either way, a city can those things as easily as a fortress can, probably better if we are talking bout supplies

[BrerBear]

Did you remember Theramore being a Military fortress supplying the Alliance with a direct way to attack the barrens?

Aren't you just ignoring his point? That was a big example of the Horde ONE-UPPING the Alliance.

[MMOLuna]

I see a lot of crabbing in this thread so let me just point out a few things, feel free to Nerd Rage over them and feel free to sit down and chew on it in thoughtful contemplation a bit.

1. We've only heard the outcome and small bits about what happened from Wrathion. We did not hear the following;
a. Who the New Warchief Is.
b. What caused Varian to make this call about letting the Horde remain in tact as it is.

Wrathion's rage about the entire events is only due to his quest chain and his want from Varian which was never fully clear to begin with until this exact point.

2. We know Thrall is present at the fight with Garrosh. Soundclips prove this, we know Garrosh loses due to screenshots of his "lootable" self. What we don't know is the direct RP'ed or Cutscene end result of this. Again this winds back into point #1, we have no idea who the new Warchief is!!!!!!!!!

Why did Varian not press his march against the rest of the Horde? I can give you 2 Reasons why he is not pressing it against The Tauren and the Blood Elves.
1. He tried to get the Blood Elves to rejoin the Alliance. Jaina fucked that up with Dalaran even though the Blood Elves a small group of them had worked with Garrosh into getting the Divine Bell, which let me point out we where under orders-not- to kill any of the Night Elves. It was a thief mission not one of mass murdering.
2. The Tauren have shown a great more deal of Honor when it comes to the Alliance, I am certain Varian got word of Dezco standing up to protect Anduin, or even the slight friendship between his son and Baine. I say slight because Baine was given Magni's Fearbreaker by Anduin before the shitstorm of Theramore. Not to mention Baine did try to warn Jaina about the Horde's incoming and told her to GTFO our of Theramore. He had no idea about the Manabomb until it was nearly dropped on all their heads. And when it happened Baine and Vol'jin where amongst the most pissed off about it.

The Sylvanas factor. Yes concessions to get back certain area's could have been made after this battle. Will they happen? Possibly, maybe who knows. But directly after the battle field while a new leader is put into place is not the time to start making demands. There is a time for rest, recovery, see if the new leader can keep his people in line, then make talks about demands. Do not also forget that Lore wise, the Alliance may have lost Theramore, but you regained all of Dalaran during this war, a floating city ruled by some of the strongest now Alliance based Magi on Azeroth. I think you scored a big win in that book.

[Trassk]

Dude do you remember Theramore? That giant purple crater?

do you remember how it was Garrosh that caused that and the rest of the horde were shocked by what he did, and now we are killing him and his orcs who caused it.

You talk like you think the horde overall wanted to use the mana bomb on theramore, but it was Garrosh alone.

And don't go there about how "Garrosh is the warchief so he represents all the hordes action" bullcrap, unless you want me to pull the Arthas card out of this.