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  1. #821
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    On another note: strangely enough no one said anything about jumping at the right time to avoid 50% health loss by those giant thingies after the first boss in stonecore. Not that it wasn't easily avoidable, but thats were a lot of people died due to not knowing (or caring) when to jump
    Was a bit more annoying to keep track of jumping for that and from time to time would fail but as a druid I could still keep groups up. Apparently resto druids was bad at Cata launch for five mans though not as bad as shamans. Personally I think it has more to do with an L2P issue for druids just like the DK tanks except that even in WotLK there was a lot of shitty druids around that couldnt even 5x1 in raids, that and no tank cooldown which many tanks didnt use anyways. Even before the mana buff there wasnt much downtime between pulls unless there was a screwup like CC breaking and dps all split or pulling another group while already engaged with another. There was still downtime compared to WotLK, but rarely was it an issue in random queue groups. Personally being a tank was far more frustrating than what healers had to put up with and the queues reflected that. I didnt want to tank in Cata and still dont want to MoP, the amount of self centered jerks who dont respect others and their role has only risen and in large part the fault of Blizzard allowing such behavior to proliferate with their content design.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-07-26 at 08:08 AM.

  2. #822
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    Stonecore heroic was "hard" simply because the trash was god awful and there was way too much of it:

    First three packs: Incredibly annoying. Had to CC one of the berzerkers, had to have a dedicated interrupt on the Earthshaker or w/e his name was (guy who turned into an elemental) and possibly Milhouse Manastorm because he just AOEs everyone. Pretty much needed to mark a kill order.

    Stone Golem: Loved these guys because people are dumb and can't jump to avoid earthquakes
    Rock Flayers: Loved these guys too

    Room before Ozruk: Can die in a fire. Way too much trash, and extremely annoying as well. You could easily be screwed if you didn't have a Shaman to lock down the fire elementals. The big ogre guys could easily oneshot a healer if RNG was bad, since their shockwave attack or whatever didn't give you enough time to move away, and they jumped around. The summoner usually had to be CC'd just so he wouldn't spawn a million imps.

    Similar thing goes for the other two "terrible" dungeons: Deadmines (also way too long, and the gauntlet was shit) and Grim Batol. They weren't hard, the trash was just garbage. Honorable mention goes to the packs with the healing Naga in Throne of Tides, the groups with Twilight Borers in BRC, the guys with the lightning grounding field in Vortex Pinnacle (some of the worst trash ever) and the groups in Lost City with the Plaguebringer and the Darkcaster.

    As for the bosses, they were fine other than Ozruk having that stupid "Have to dot yourself to break" shield and the bugginess of Shatter before the graphic outlining where it would hit was added, and the idiocy on the last boss with the rocks where it could clip you even without you being in the impact zone.
    Ah, I still wince internally from having some of that trash discussed. It seems a bit counter-intuitive to say that the instances weren't hard except for the trash; there are only 2 real parts to an instance, trash and bosses...and trash usually makes up the bulk of the instance.

    Oh yeah I almost forgot to mention, the worst part of Stonecore: double Corborus.

    Q: Where the fuck is Xia Xia, SIU?!?!
    A1: She needs to start making eggs for Easter...
    A2: Drunk and sleeping somewhere.

  3. #823
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    Bullhooey. You want to see people burn out, put them a seemingly insurmountable challenge and the casuals will fall off in droves. Only the hardcores believe that extra difficulty is the antidote to burnout. Since there are far far far more casuals than hardcores, that approach is wrong from a financial sense for Blizz.
    We are talking about PVE... challenging content is interesting only the first 2-3 times you get through, then becomes just annoying even for the hardcores. I mean heroic raiding gets less and less challenging with gear and getting used to the mechanics (as it should be). I don't think there are many players out there running challenge modes endlessly after getting the gold medals, just because it's challenging.
    Cata heroics challenging design became annoying really fast: they were artificially hard due to LFD random matchmaking even after a month after realese, when most people just wanted their VP.... a nerf was needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyandor View Post
    From a healer perspective they were probably the hardest. I remember healing Stonecore normal at 82 and I thought it was quite nice. Then I healed it at 83 and it was like: huh? where did my mana go?!. 85 hc: please shoot me. I almost threw in the towel at that point, but I stayed with it and once you got the right mindset it was sooo much more rewarding than before. I loved triage healing and the fact I was actually using ALL my spells. Also because of the hard hc's I've never met any bad healer when raiding at that time. The big difference was that you couldn't heal stupid any more. Everyone had to be on the ball. Fights like Throngus and Siamat (stands out a lot for me as I often got randomed right into that boss) are perfect examples of needing to heal efficiently and not stand in stuff and dps giving everything.
    The whole reason I forgave Blizzard for Grim Batol not being a raid was because it felt like a raid.
    That's exactly when I decided to switch to holy as my main: none wanted to heal in heroics and eraly raids because of the awful mana issues, and I find out I really enjoyed it... then I dropped my dps spec early MoP, just because playing a spriest sucks right now.
    Last edited by mmoc65ba707d63; 2013-07-26 at 08:54 AM.

  4. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    On another note: strangely enough no one said anything about jumping at the right time to avoid 50% health loss by those giant thingies after the first boss in stonecore. Not that it wasn't easily avoidable, but thats were a lot of people died due to not knowing (or caring) when to jump
    This jumping thing, if you have 300ms+ ping (or 500-800 like I did a lot of the time), it's harder to make it work.

    Me and static cling, that was a complete losing battle.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrgannus View Post
    I can honestly say I was SHOCKED when Cataclysm hit. Shocked. Flabbergasted. These dungeons were the hardest dungeons this game has ever had. Period.
    In terms of the average success/completion rate, when you lump all participants together -- organized groups as well as LFD -- they probably were. Except maybe the first month of the troll dungeons, which were ridiculously hard for solo queued non-raiders.

    Of course there were some brutally hard BC heroics, but the people who went into them knew what they were getting into and were prepared to do whatever to slog through them.

    With Cata, you had gobs and gobs and gobs of people who dinged 85 and it was like "I don't raid so I guess I'll try some of these fine heroic dungeons out."

    Ahahahahaha. OMG the pain. I don't remember what I did the first couple months of Cata but it was definitely not heroics. I guess that's when I started leveling alts.

  5. #825
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    This jumping thing, if you have 300ms+ ping (or 500-800 like I did a lot of the time), it's harder to make it work.

    Me and static cling, that was a complete losing battle.

    - - - Updated - - -


    In terms of the average success/completion rate, when you lump all participants together -- organized groups as well as LFD -- they probably were. Except maybe the first month of the troll dungeons, which were ridiculously hard for solo queued non-raiders.

    Of course there were some brutally hard BC heroics, but the people who went into them knew what they were getting into and were prepared to do whatever to slog through them.

    With Cata, you had gobs and gobs and gobs of people who dinged 85 and it was like "I don't raid so I guess I'll try some of these fine heroic dungeons out."

    Ahahahahaha. OMG the pain. I don't remember what I did the first couple months of Cata but it was definitely not heroics. I guess that's when I started leveling alts.
    remember Cata heroics were locked behind reputation as well. So you had to grind the dungeons for a long time to be able to do the heroic version. Some of the Heroics required a key to get into the place initially as well.

    With Cata you just needed Ilevel which could be achieved fairly fast, so you would potentially know less about the dungeons encounters/trash packs than you in a TBC heroic by the time you got to it.

  6. #826
    If your ping or whatever pc issue you have makes you a liability to your own style of play or to others - please quit until you fixed that issue

  7. #827
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    With Cata you just needed Ilevel which could be achieved fairly fast, so you would potentially know less about the dungeons encounters/trash packs than you in a TBC heroic by the time you got to it.
    Not really. As far as ilvl goes, 329 wasn't all that easy to reach without cheesing your ilvl. Highest level greens were 318 and 333 gear came mostly from dungeons, with a couple pieces being given for twilight highlands quests (including weapon though, which was nice). So running the normal mode dungeons was almost a necessity to get decent gear for heroics.

    Secondly lots of people do dungeons while they level, it's not unreasonable to think that people had done the normal mode at least a couple times before getting into heroic. Granted that yeah it wasn't nearly as bad as BC back when revered rep was required for keys.
    Q: Where the fuck is Xia Xia, SIU?!?!
    A1: She needs to start making eggs for Easter...
    A2: Drunk and sleeping somewhere.

  8. #828
    Deleted
    All it required was good CC.
    #

    By that logic you could say all it requires is to play the game properly?

    PvE in general in this game isn't "that hard"...

  9. #829
    Quote Originally Posted by Notos View Post
    Not really. As far as ilvl goes, 329 wasn't all that easy to reach without cheesing your ilvl. Highest level greens were 318 and 333 gear came mostly from dungeons, with a couple pieces being given for twilight highlands quests (including weapon though, which was nice). So running the normal mode dungeons was almost a necessity to get decent gear for heroics.

    Secondly lots of people do dungeons while they level, it's not unreasonable to think that people had done the normal mode at least a couple times before getting into heroic. Granted that yeah it wasn't nearly as bad as BC back when revered rep was required for keys.
    That is my point though,

    By the time you had managed to get to enter a BC heroic you had most likely run the normal version several times. Cata the required ilevel was actually fairly easy to cheese, using offspec pieces and such. BC Heroics while tough (bosses them selves were pretty easy when I first did them it was just the trash that caused problems) were mainly like it due to a lack of exposure. You had a huge wall to climb over to get access to them.

  10. #830
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    If your ping or whatever pc issue you have makes you a liability to your own style of play or to others - please quit until you fixed that issue
    I'm certain Blizzard would prefer to keep taking my money, and I don't think I'll be moving out of Alaska, so, you will just have to learn to put up with me. But thanks for your eloquent argument anyway.

  11. #831
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    I'm certain Blizzard would prefer to keep taking my money, and I don't think I'll be moving out of Alaska, so, you will just have to learn to put up with me. But thanks for your eloquent argument anyway.
    Well you and others are free to subscribe to anything your PC/connection is unable to let you play properly. The fact remains that you are a nuisance to other players. And why would you want to play a game that you cannot properly play - limits you in a very annoying way? I don't understand that at all. Sure you might wanna log on, chat to some friends. Do the occasional dungeon with friends who don't mind your issues and accept them. But you will be a nuisance in PUG's/LFX.

    While I am pretty much a fat bald fuck... You won't see me entering a teamsport at this time. Why? Because I wouldn't be any use to my team. Thankfully there are gyms all over, so I recently decided to go to one of those places to get in shape - to later actually be able to go do a teamsport and make a difference instead of being a liability. The same thing I would expect people to do ingame.

    I am sorry if I hurt your feelings or somesuch, wasn't my intention. But yes I dislike people just not caring what their impact is on the play of others.

  12. #832
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Ok 1. you keep judging your dotting seal... voila no stuns?!?!?
    2. you destroy the other pack before pulling the boss....???!! (atleast in pugs)

    Woah....

    On another note: strangely enough no one said anything about jumping at the right time to avoid 50% health loss by those giant thingies after the first boss in stonecore. Not that it wasn't easily avoidable, but thats were a lot of people died due to not knowing (or caring) when to jump
    Considering that I had direbrew's remote to go to BRD instantly, it was crazy easy for me to get the beer and I didn't have to worry about having to judge when his reflect was up. And as for point 2, yeah, the problem was that the tanks almost always wanted to skip pulling the trash in that room and someone almost always pulled it
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    Also, it's should HAVE. NOT "should of". "Should of" doesn't even make sense. If you think you should own a cat, do you say "I should of a cat" or "I should have a cat"? Do you HAVE cats, or do you OF cats?

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