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  1. #1081
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    You're presuming Lor'themar wouldn't change allegiances and sabotage the Horde fleet. You think he wants all those uncultured mongrels loitering about his very doorstep? He barely tolerates Sylvanas as it is.
    hey. dude. guess what. your not lor'themar.
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  2. #1082
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    do you remember how it was Garrosh that caused that and the rest of the horde were shocked by what he did, and now we are killing him and his orcs who caused it.

    You talk like you think the horde overall wanted to use the mana bomb on theramore, but it was Garrosh alone.

    And don't go there about how "Garrosh is the warchief so he represents all the hordes action" bullcrap, unless you want me to pull the Arthas card out of this.

    Because it was only Garrosh and his goons responible for carrying out the attack on Theramore. There wasn't a scenario about it or anything.....

  3. #1083
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigzoman20 View Post
    Because it was only Garrosh and his goons responible for carrying out the attack on Theramore. There wasn't a scenario about it or anything.....
    see, this is where the alliance really love to miss out details to suit there arguments.

    The attack on theramore was, at the disgust of Baine and Vol'jin, ordered by Garrosh, as as horde they were oath bound to follow his orders. But, they fought honorably, on the ground hand to hand against the alliance. There was even valid reason, given theramore presence in the barrens for the horde to have honorable combat against theramore and stop more bloodshed being spread across there own lands from the alliance.

    But, it was garrosh who used this as a decoy, using the rest of the horde as his decoy to have the mana bomb brought to theramore, which nobody but his kor'kohn, malkorok and the goblins knew about.

    The horde who fought hand to hand in theramore were doing so honorably. This is why, if you read the book, you'd know how much of a shock this was to baine and vol'jin for what garrosh did.

    Seriously have you even read the book. Are you basing your argument of that shitty little scenario?
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  4. #1084
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    see, this is where the alliance really love to miss out details to suit there arguments.

    The attack on theramore was, at the disgust of Baine and Vol'jin, ordered by Garrosh, as as horde they were oath bound to follow his orders. But, they fought honorably, on the ground hand to hand against the alliance. There was even valid reason, given theramore presence in the barrens for the horde to have honorable combat against theramore and stop more bloodshed being spread across there own lands from the alliance.

    But, it was garrosh who used this as a decoy, using the rest of the horde as his decoy to have the mana bomb brought to theramore, which nobody but his kor'kohn, malkorok and the goblins knew about.

    The horde who fought hand to hand in theramore were doing so honorably. This is why, if you read the book, you'd know how much of a shock this was to baine and vol'jin for what garrosh did.

    Seriously have you even read the book. Are you basing your argument of that shitty little scenario?
    I've read it and I still fail to understand why you pull up this nazi cliche "we were just following orders" bullshit to completely shift accountability.

    Regardless of if they didn't know about the bomb, their participation was needed in order for Garrosh to drop the bomb under everyone's noses.

  5. #1085
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigzoman20 View Post
    I've read it and I still fail to understand why you pull up this nazi cliche "we were just following orders" bullshit to completely shift accountability
    nazi cliche... seriously? Dude, your own us soldiers do the same shit in the middle east under the same orders.

    Whatever, you don't want to try on the other shoe, you just want to jump around yelling 'no, horde is bad, horde is bad! *stamps feet*'. God, at least TRY to look over the bloody fence.
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  6. #1086
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    nazi cliche... seriously? Dude, your own us soldiers do the same shit in the middle east under the same orders.

    Whatever, you don't want to try on the other shoe, you just want to jump around yelling 'no, horde is bad, horde is bad! *stamps feet*'. God, at least TRY to look over the bloody fence.
    A bit off-topic, but comparing the atrocities committed by U.S soldiers in Afghan to the atrocities committed by Nazi Germany displays a complete ignorance of world history. Please find me the destabilization and genocide of a certain group of people being deliberately done by the U.S Armed forces so I can write my congressmen...

    Back to topic: Several of the Horde leaders knew Garrosh was a bad choice, but still followed him anyway. It wasn't until their own interests were being encroached upon that they decided to rebel against him.

    Im not suggesting the Horde is completly bad,I am simply stating that the accountability lies on their shoulders. They fucked up big time.
    Last edited by THE Bigzoman; 2013-07-26 at 06:44 PM.

  7. #1087
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigzoman20 View Post
    I've read it and I still fail to understand why you pull up this nazi cliche "we were just following orders" bullshit to completely shift accountability.
    The whole "just following orders" is not bullshit

    There have been studies over it. Of what people would do when an authority figure tells them to - the Millgram experiment
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  8. #1088
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    The whole "just following orders" is not bullshit

    There have been studies over it. Of what people would do when an authority figure tells them to - the Millgram experiment
    The milgram experiment does not factor the leader of the group completely shitting on the other members of the group and THEN barking orders at them.

    Try again.

  9. #1089
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFu4ever View Post
    So, let's say the Alliance get the outcome they want. Orgimmar and Azshara are now occupied by the Alliance.
    Strawman...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigzoman20 View Post
    The milgram experiment does not factor the leader of the group completely shitting on the other members of the group and THEN barking orders at them.
    .
    What does have to do anything?
    People dont disobey authority for little to no reason.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  11. #1091
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    What does have to do anything?
    People dont disobey authority for little to no reason.
    It has everything to do with it.

  12. #1092
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigzoman20 View Post
    It has everything to do with it.
    saying mean things is hardly the best reason to go out murdering and destroying things. Thats like me burning down LA because I didnt want to pay taxes
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  13. #1093
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigzoman20 View Post
    It has everything to do with it.
    So if, lets say, Varian was to order the alliance to attack undercity, to 'claim back lordearon', and they fought the forsaken there hand to hand. And then Jaina comes in and nukes the zone, killing all the forsaken there, and leaving a crater where undercity once stood, you'd be fine with that?
    #boycottchina

  14. #1094
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    So if, lets say, Varian was to order the alliance to attack undercity, to 'claim back lordearon', and they fought the forsaken there hand to hand. And then Jaina comes in and nukes the zone, killing all the forsaken there, and leaving a crater where undercity once stood, you'd be fine with that?
    Except the actions of the horde haven't been one event, it has been several. Which is why there is an impending siege on their doorstep.

  15. #1095
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigzoman20 View Post
    Except the actions of the horde haven't been one event, it has been several. Which is why there is an impending siege on their doorstep.
    answer the question.
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  16. #1096
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    saying mean things is hardly the best reason to go out murdering and destroying things. Thats like me burning down LA because I didnt want to pay taxes
    Garrosh went far beyond saying mean things. He

    Exiled the trools from the center of Ogrimmar.
    Killed the revered tauren leader.
    Practiced unethical methods of war

    Among other things.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    answer the question.
    No. And accountability would be requested via story. Even though I don't think the forsaken deserve any sympathy.

  17. #1097
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigzoman20 View Post
    Garrosh went far beyond saying mean things. He

    Exiled the trools from the center of Ogrimmar.
    Garrosh didn't exile the Trolls from Orgrimmar. They left on their own because they didn't like what he was doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigzoman20 View Post
    Killed the revered tauren leader.
    Killing Cairne is irrelevant. He did it lawfully while defending his innocence.

  18. #1098
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    If you don't even have the scrots to answer a hypothetical question as comparison to your own provocation, there's really nothing serious you can give to this debate.
    #boycottchina

  19. #1099
    WoW, choosing to interpret his reasoned answer to your yes/no question as a refusal to your badgering. AND a you-don't-have-the-balls insult. Truly a bold move in this debate. You might have lost some credibility there if the thing hadn't devolved into reductio ad absurdum like twelve pages ago.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  20. #1100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    WoW, choosing to interpret his reasoned answer to your yes/no question as a refusal to your badgering. AND a you-don't-have-the-balls insult. Truly a bold move in this debate. You might have lost some credibility there if the thing hadn't devolved into reductio ad absurdum like twelve pages ago.
    I find it remarkable how you coin reductio ad absurdum, and still use a smiley right after it.

    But I digress.
    #boycottchina

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