Blizz refuse to buff Fury

[cFortyfive]

reason why in Raidbots furys are high

Seems a strange thing to claim that fury is high up on raidbots when you essentially "beat" hunters and enhancement shaman at least just going from a top 100 perspective for whatever it's worth - otherwise it's just frost and elemental.
Plate dps is not high demand and currently rolling one you shouldn't really expect to be brought just because of your awesome damage. You might want some for the utility or certain encounter mechanics and to soak up eventual loot that would otherwise just be disenchanted or for the fact that you might not have a better and just as reliable candidate for the slot. Maybe the new trinkets band-aid fix that but well that remains to be seen.
If you want to deal actual damage or be a class that is actively sought after - roll a caster and I don't think that anyone can really deny that. Good thing current brilliant encounter design in in place otherwise the gap would be even more hilarious.

[bmichaels]

5.4 Patch Notes

Warrior
- Whining Shout range increased to 40 yards.

Contribute constructively

[Skarssen]

Skarrsen. The reason why in Raidbots furys are high is because of encounters like Tortos or Megaera where if ur build plays it right u can do scumbag dps and thats where the logs are froim

I am not confident that you know how to interpret the raidbots data. What about Horridon, Council, Ji-kun, Durumu, Primordius, Qon, Twins, Lei Shen, Ra-Den? Fury is within 5% of feral, ret, unholy, enhance and WW on those (with a few outliers). Compare all 90th percentile heroic parses for feral, unholy, ret, enhance, WW, and combat for each encounter and compare fury parses to those and I bet you would get a <0.001 alpha.

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5.4 Patch Notes

Warrior
- Whining Shout range increased to 40 yards, cool down removed.

Fixed that for you.

[sjsctt]

Skarrsen. The reason why in Raidbots furys are high is because of encounters like Tortos or Megaera where if ur build plays it right u can do scumbag dps and thats where the logs are froim

Ummm, warrior are WORSE at scum-bag dps than other classes this tier. That is why a lot of people perceive us as in a bad spot. Look at all the multi-dot classes with their horridon focus macros for instance....look at progression council where the warriors literally sit and single target sul. the list goes on.

[Deleted]

5.4 Patch Notes

Warrior
- Whining Shout range increased to 40 yards.

Contribute constructively

Seriously? This post should contribute constructively while others can write "buff fury plx u hav no idea with 4 heroix down" half of the whole thread? At least it covers most of the thread discussion.
To "post constructively": If you're not in one of the top 10 25m guilds in the world you should try to increase your own performance, instead of calling for buffs. If you're playing in a 10m guild you have a really strong contribution with a fury warrior.

[Bloodletters]

Fury isn't any worse than ret/enhance/feral/unholy, and it scales better than most specs. It will be fine in 5.4. No plate class will ever be competitive with the Nancy-boy wizards, I think that is obvious, but fury will be completely viable in SoO and both arms and frost DKs are/will be far worse, so I really don't see any room for complaining unless you were thinking that you would be competitive with the dress wearing weaklings. In that case yes, you may just have to adjust your expectations.

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What is your classification of "okay" damage? Mage level? Warlock level? Elemental level? Shadow level? If that is your expectation then I can see you having issues with fury. Blizzard prefers ranged DPS and you cannot argue against that. But in comparison to other melee fury is doing better than average.

Fury is not doing better than average compared to other melee. They are among the worst melee.

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...all/14/60/p90/ - 25 Heroic spec score 90th percentile

The only melee we are ahead of are Arms Warriors, Frost DK, and Combat and Subtlety Rogue. What's the common thread among those specs? They are all subject to a representation bias. Fury is one of the more represented specs in raiding and it's position is firmly planted at the bottom.

We are the third spec from the bottom. The only reason we're that high is because of the power of Bladestorm on big AOE fights.

Also, with the inclusion of RPPM, Warriors do not scale better than many specs at all. We are average in our scaling.

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I would like to show you something.


Currently I cannot decide weather you are name-calling or Ad Hominem. Since you say killing 4 heroic bosses (It´s five, to be precise in my case) is something bad, I tend to name-calling. You do not adress the subject and solely rely on attacking my authority as a source. So either you are an example for the lowest rank of discussing people or an example of the second lowest. You may pick.
And to answer your question, I am talking because this is a warrior forum. And I happen to be a warrior.

Now let me pack some heat. If Furys wouldn´t do OK in Top Guilds, why is it, that literally every Top guild brings at least one warrior? You might consider, that "doing OK" does not solely depend on your damage but also on your mobility and utility, which we are stuffed with. Furys scale better with stats then any other Melees. I think the comparison to Ranges is obsolete, because we mostly have to deal with totally diffrent mechanics. Aside from Rogues, I think every other Melee can be resonably applied to an open melee spot in a raid.

Now, before you next time create an account to spill opinions, insults and whining over a thread, try to back up your points. Just a tiny little bit.

Warriors were and are brought to Heroic raids primarily for Bladestorm and our utility.

[Valech]

Great, I´m fine with that.

[valliant13]

Hmmm, sorry I saw this on the main page and needed to see what the fuss was about. Im a DK main so I wanted to see what was said here. It's actually good to see blizzard is ignoring another melee outside of DK's...maybe they are ignoring all the melee that aren't rogues and enhance shaman currently. No I'm not trolling I'm seriously glad to see that DK's aren't alone.

[Bloodletters]

Great, I´m fine with that.

I'm not. Bladestorm is a highly situational ability that generally has limited uses. Furthermore, being brought mainly for your utility kinda sucks. There's nothing particularly challenging about using your utility.

[Zougail]

One of the main issues that fury has is that nobody knew what ramifications came with the rppm trinkets.
Before 5.3 we were the top melee, when 5.3 launches we got a nerf and rppm was introduced.

I cannot link on this account but Collision ran BiS sims with gear scaled to ilvl 600 for T14(without rppm) and T15 (with rppm). Those resualts showed that fury literally gained 10k dps from rppm while EVERY other class gained closer to 50k and mages gained close to 100k. Rppm needs to be either scrapped or fixed to be just as beneficial for warriors who devalue haste.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Fury having a hard time? WUT? What is this madness?

[cFortyfive]

To "post constructively": If you're not in one of the top 10 25m guilds in the world you should try to increase your own performance, instead of calling for buffs. If you're playing in a 10m guild you have a really strong contribution with a fury warrior.

If that is supposed to be constructive I don't want to know what the opposite might look like. In general I do not see where the harm would be if someone playing on a mediocre level could perform just as his peers especially when even playing quite well isn't exactly rewarding in the current scenario.

[Time Sage]

I'm not. Bladestorm is a highly situational ability that generally has limited uses. Furthermore, being brought mainly for your utility kinda sucks. There's nothing particularly challenging about using your utility.

Warlocks would like to talk to you. For years were we really hard to play well and mostly brought for the amount of ultilty we bring.

[Bloodletters]

Warlocks would like to talk to you. For years were we really hard to play well and mostly brought for the amount of ultilty we bring.

Warlocks? They've been pretty damn strong throughout the life cycle of this game. In BC, they were monsters. Cata they were among the top DPS in tier 11 and tier 12. In tier 13 they were average. Tier 14, they ranged from the best to the second best DPS class in the game and they've ranged from the best to the second best DPS class in tier 15. You have had quite a bit of utility here and there but your damage has been MORE than up to par.

[Opeth69]

During progression warriors we pretty sub par, if you decided to bring a melee it was a rogue, another rogue, another rogue (if you had one) or a dk, then maybe enhance/feral then a warrior. Most fights melee were bought for there single target as cleave/aoe was much better left to ranged (mainly warlocks), having a warrior during progression was likely for the banner and to soak up plate gear, most guilds I know that took a warrior did so because he was trusted enough to give him a raid spot but having to be the special case isn't fun.

Having said that we've done better this tier than ret's at least but going into next tier with there buffs we will fall behind making us pretty much the lowest melee class in the game single target, which unfortunately is often what melee are pinned into doing in most progression raids. The fights in this tier where warriors shone were pretty much only fights where the abiliity to use bladestorm was allowed, if you took out bladestorm we'd be sunk compared to most, look at iron qon a fight that is actually quite decent for us on paper, large raid dmg during several parts of the fight ( flame debuff/fist smash) and quite a long extended execute period, yet we fall pretty badly behind every melee. Next tier there are some cleave fights but not as many as this tier that will allow us to pad with storm during progression at least.

Ive reached the point where it doesnt matter enough what numbers you pull we will limp through the next tier mediocre at best, but for me the class has become so stale and monotonous that it's not fun enough to play anymore. They really screwed up rage this xpac, sure its more consistent and balanced than before but its also ridiculously easy to manage your rage and always have enough to follow your rotation there just isnt enough going on anymore in our rotation to add flavour or snap decision making that makes a lot of other classes fun. Either we need a much more variable resource system thats not irritating as hell during starvation and overpowered when we have too much, or a more complex varied rotation than 4 attacks on a simple priority.

[senturion]

Fury was in a good state mid 5.3 H progression due to the fact we get our 1H weps off Jin'rokh, Tortos and BIS trinket off Jikun which are the early/easiest bosses for many 10/25. This gives us an advantage over the other classes. Fury can find its way into top 3 on meters quite easily.

In late tier farming, we drop to middle/lower half when everyone else gets their gear up. At farming stage, top of meters don't really matter. More than enough dps to clear content.

[Deleted]

If that is supposed to be constructive I don't want to know what the opposite might look like.

Of course that was not constructive. But I'll fix that now.

In general I do not see where the harm would be if someone playing on a mediocre level could perform just as his peers especially when even playing quite well isn't exactly rewarding in the current scenario.

That is a reasonable request, but you can't just buff the whole spec, if there is such a difference between mediocre and top play. If you compare the top 100 parses with overall parses, there is a striking difference between class balance. On top 100 logs fury is much more in line with other melee specs (minus rogues). If we need a buff, it should only be a very minor one. Personally I think that the RPM discussion is a starting point for that.
The real question is why is the average fury warrior so much behind other average melee classes? I can't really answer that question, maybe because the CS rage pooling system is too complex, maybe most people don't use their burst in the right moments, I don't know. Instead of just buff the whole spec overall, it probably makes more sense to focus on these concepts, try to understand where the real problems are and tackle these. The 2pt16 could be a first step in this direction.

During progression warriors we pretty sub par, if you decided to bring a melee it was a rogue, another rogue, another rogue (if you had one) or a dk, then maybe enhance/feral then a warrior.

But the reason for that was not our/their damage, but the strong magic resistance/immunity given to DKs/Rogues

[Bigbamboozal]

I...didn't read past the OP, though I feel guilty for doing so, I will assume and chime in, that historically fury has scaled really well with gear, and usually pulls way the fuck ahead in the last patch of any xpac, no idea if this is how it's gonna go this time around...but I suppose it might.
also /yah! they took our jabs!

[lordzed83]

Give us some nice pvp buffs plz

[Opeth69]

To reply to above posts, rogues were bought also for there vastly superior dmg, also why would you give feathers to a warrior over a dk during progression? Scaling wise we're no where near the levels we used to be, the perpetual myth that we out scale everyone hasn't been true for literally so long it's irrelevant, next tier we won't outscale most specs but we will some.
I still hate how the games become a 2 tier system, top tier consisting of ranged dps and bottom tier consisting of melee, being a viable melee just means you can fill one of the few spots allocated to soaking up gear, interrupting duty or the few fights melee shine, I know there's no longer supposed to be any hybrid tax but it feels like there's a melee tax and only rogues managed to avoid it (and barely). I mean imagine if melee surpassed most ranged single target but ranged had the advantage on multidot/cleave, or if all ranged specs had there ability to cast and move massively reduced then melee had the advantage on heavy movement fights, it's been so long since any of that was slightly the case that it would cause so much QQ they would never pass it but its a nice idea seeing melee competing with ranged not with themselves for once.