Let's talk realistic: THE NEXT EXPANSION (subs loss, predictions, what fans like)

[Teriz]

Yes Teriz, I didn't add a class. I doubt Blizz, even if they did well on the Monk, would want to risk going from one brand new class into another. They'll have a class-less expansion just to smooth any late-appearing issues with the Monk. They'd then add Demon Hunter in Expansion VI.

Don't bet on it. If they add another race to the game, that will be three expansions in a row where new races were added. Not to mention they are also working on new models for the older races.

People like to talk about a class-less expansion. What about a raceless expansion?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Don't bet on it. If they add another race to the game, that will be three expansions in a row where new races were added. Not to mention they are also working on new models for the older races.

People like to talk about a class-less expansion. What about a raceless expansion?

No Race AND no Class would turn me off right away.

I play for new stuff I can see after the expansion ends.

[Teriz]

Suppose we have Steam Warriors can tank with Mecha. Whats that new Mount called again?

I wasn't aware you could tank in that new sky golem mount. Source?

In all seriousness, your argument is just silly.

Or we have Gunmen who uses rifles and grenades. Who else can do that?

I believe the problem is that only one class can use rifles or guns. And Hunters can use grenades? Since when?

Or we could give Tinkers some nifty class abilities...Teleport for example. Shrink rays. Remote control and forcefields. Sound familiar.

Teleports and shields are available to numerous classes. I don't see how that is a valid argument. Monks, Shaman, and Warlocks have teleports and force fields. Are they stealing the thunder from the Engineering profession?

Everyone ingame has access to the tech theme.

Just like everyone has access to the magic theme via enchanting. We still have a Mage class. Everyone has access to healing via first aid. We still have a priest class. Etc.

See, this is what I call nitpciking. You are looking for and magnifying even slight differences in order to make the overlap appear less than it is.

So you wish to increase this overlap by implementing a class that has another fire-magic spec? Okay.

The overlap exists. Different classes can have similar spells and stll have a different feel and theme. You don't even want to consider how a Dragonsworn class can be implemented in game purely because you don't want to give up the argument "Tinkers are inevitable".

I'm pretty sure I pointed out (in great detail) why Dragonsworn wouldn't work. It has little to do with my position on the Tinker class.

As it is, the supposition that they developed only one idea for the class and that it staretd with Dk and ended with Dk is - to put it mildly - ludicrous. They develop various ideas and concepts and take forward the one one that fits best and shows most potential.

So you honestly believe that a Runemaster concept and a Necromancer concept had equal potential with a Death Knight concept in a game that was designed AFTER Warcraft 3, which had a main antagonist that was a Death Knight, and had one of the other character class' core concepts already wrapped up in its ability set?

Now that is ludicrous.

They did what they did with DKs...they rolled several class concepts into one. Some of those concepts had no presence in WC3 and some did.

Now who's nitpicking?

Yes or No; Is Monk class is based on the Brewmaster hero from WC3?

Gear choice and looting tables can be worked around as an issue should it be necessary. There aren't really any strong archetypes left for mail. Not even tinkers.

Technology-based classes tend to have moderate to high armor types. Even the Tinker hero from WC3 had fairly high armor. If Shaman can wear mail, I'm not seeing how a Tinker class could not.

Also its more than just the loot tables. It's the class connections to WC3, the thematics, the missing full hybrid class, the rise of technology within WoW's narrative, the decline of DPS abilities in the engineering profession, and other stuff.

In short, if you can find another class concept that had a corresponding WC3 hero, can wear mail armor, can use ranged weapons, can heal/tank/DPS, can be played by all or most races, is unlike any other class currently in the game, and has no WC3 abilities that would overlap with any of the existing classes, I'm all ears.

[Deathstroke]

Hell, Dragonsworn would be amazing, but it would only be doable with an Emerald Dream/Caverns of time expansion, imo.

Moreover, it would actually have fit better with Cataclysm.

[Deleted]

Because both Azshara and Kil'jaeden would deserve to be the final boss.

+

Well, let's kill them in a epic battle vs both at the same time

[Zapgreen]

I think it'll definitely be a South Seas expansion with the demons heavily invading Azeroth again, so that once we defeat them in 6.0+ we can have a full-on Burning Legion expansion in Argus for 7.0.

...

I definitely think they do need to sort of transition into the expansion, like Grinhither said. I like the idea of the invasions starting to take place in the next expansion (ramping up the intensity with each patch), leading into the expansion afterword where we finally take the fight to them; invading their demonic home world, and if they keep up the 5 level expansions it would work out to being level 100 when fighting Sargeras.

Following Blizzards race/class/race... trend, we'd be looking to see a new race for the next one (ogres and highelves, or whatever) then a new class (demon hunter) released appropriately when we invade them.

Now, Here's how I would handle the next expansion if I were in charge of the whole thing. I don't raid, so you'll have to forgive me for not going into all the detail of the raids.

Expansion title: Roangut's High seas adventure!
Location: Southern Seas
Enemies: Pirates, Naga, Kraken, etc.


First off: New features

-- New Professions - Woodworker and Lumberjack (there's no shortage of wood varieties they could have for each tier)

Lumberjack would just be a gathering profession. If they have any axe equipped they can chop down trees, or just by having an axe in your inventory. They gather lumber which is used by Woodworkers primarily. Woodworkers could make Staves, Bows, Storage boxes (huge slotted 'bag' but only usable in bank), and other general wood based items. Woodworkers would also make ship parts, as well as furniture for player housing (see bellow)

-- New Mount Skill - Sailing/navigation

Each rank would unlock more features in the ocean content. First rank would be granted by completing a quest (tutorial of sorts). One rank would let you join a crew, another would let you start a crew, the next would let you captain a ship, maybe then you can join your ships into a fleet, and So on.

-- New Feature - Ships

Players can buy/build their own ships to sail on open waters. a Woodworker/tailor are all that's needed to make a ship. Though each profession would be needed to upgrade to a fully equipped ship. Woodworkers would assemble the ship/do repairs, Tailors would make sails/rope, Blacksmiths would forge cannons/cannonballs, Engineers would make Harpoons, Alchemists would make Gunpowder, and so on.

Cooks could make ration/food supply that are needed to keep the crew going (You need X rations to sail for Y hours.), Fishers could be important incase you run out of food, and first aid is always important.

Your ship/crew would have your own symbol/sail color (much like guild/arena banners), you would be able to unlock/hire NPCs to work on your ship as merchants, repairers, etc.

-- New Feature - Player housing

Even the most primitive of games have this feature, and all it does is give player a chance to express their creativity or show off cool trophys they've collected. Guilds will be able to purchase a guild ship, where all guildmembers will have a small cabin where they can display items, however players that own their own ships can deck out their captains quarters (which are much roomier) just the same, members of the crew will have a small cabin on the ship as well.

-- New factions - Navy (PvE) and Pirates (PvP).

You could serve the Alliance or Horde Navy and earn ranks as you patrol the seas for kraken and pirate warlords (PvE).
1. Seaman 2. Sailor 3. Cadet 4. Midshipman 5. Lieutenant 6. Commander 7. Commodore 8. Admiral 9. Admiral of the Fleet

Or you could become a scourge of the Sea and gain infamy as a Pirate. (PvP)
1. Swabie 2. Cabin Boy/Girl 3. Deckhand 4. Corsair 5. Pirate 6. Raider 7. Swashbuckler 8. Buccaneer 9. Terror of the High Seas

Special Titles: Captain (lead a crew) 1st Mate (Co-leader of crew)

Gameplay: PvE (Navy)

You would assemble a crew, get a ship, deck it out with cannons, Harpoons, Sails, etc. The ship really only needs a captain and crew, but from there specializations may occur naturally. Someone might be really proficient at manning the cannons and such. PvE "raid" content may be found by purchasing maps at Booty Bay from a retired sailor. The Map will lead your ship/fleet to a phased boss (Kraken, Siren, Faction warship, or whatever). The boss can be shot at with cannons, you could use a harpoon gun to bring it close and attack from the deck, If its a ship you can get close and swing across on ropes, or use a plank. Raids would be something like a island cove where your ship would enter through a cave, then you would be on an instanced island and you're free to do as you need.

Gameplay: PvP (Pirating)

You can't have player owned ships without Pirates. Players on PvP servers (or with PvP flag enabled) will be able to engage in sea battles to raid an enemy ship and 'plunder' their loot. When a ship is 'taken over,' by boarding and killing all members of a crew, the attackers can loot a chest that has gold and a small chance of gear proportional to the ships overall value. For example, if crew A raids crew B's ship that has 500,000g invested into it (sails, guns, etc.) Then Crew A might get 500g split among its members. Since having a smaller crew makes it harder, you get a bigger cut. Crew A doesn't lose anything, except maybe the cost of repairs on the ship. The defeated crew returns to booty bay, or a nearby port.

Gameplay: PvE (explorer/trader)

You travel from island to island in search of treasure and valuable goods/resources. On random islands you might find a one-use schematic for a powerful cannon upgrade, or dye for sails. Sometimes you might just find treasure. If the Navy or Pirating isn't your cup of tea you can explore the seas and make a profit as a trader supplying the others who equip ships for battle. Each Schematic is good to make the item once and then disappears, so Explorers/traders will be valuable to your faction's navy/pirates. (this would be handled in a similar way to archeology, where the locations are random and not something bots can easily farm; The locations would be unmarked)


Now, I think that would make for one hell of a fun expansion, but I guess I'm not too familiar with how much work would have to bee put into making it. The only downside I can see is that all this fun stuff would be obsolete after one expansion (especially the whole Ship focus) But It would be one fun expansion... if nothing else. And Like I said, the whole time we're doing our thing the burning legion is slowly starting to ramp up its invasion; building up for the next expansion.

[Talen]

I wasn't aware you could tank in that new sky golem mount. Source?

The point is - you get the Sky Golem mount.

Do you think it credible that engineers would get THAT if Tinkers were to get a similar ability? This is the problem with having Engineering available.

In all seriousness, your argument is just silly.

I believe the problem is that only one class can use rifles or guns. And Hunters can use grenades? Since when?

Since they can learn Engineering. The solution to having one class use Guns is to ensure other classes can also use guns. That class doesn't have to be a Tinker. Blizzard don't even need to bring in a new class; they just need to tweak some existing specs.

Teleports and shields are available to numerous classes. I don't see how that is a valid argument. Monks, Shaman, and Warlocks have teleports and force fields. Are they stealing the thunder from the Engineering profession?

As they aren't using tech to do it....no. Tinkers do. For the same reasons you've used to dismiss DHs in the past.

So you wish to increase this overlap by implementing a class that has another fire-magic spec? Okay.

As it would be possible to do so without diluting the core theme of the class...I see no real reason against it. The use of fire magic, or time magic, or whatever - does not, in and of itself, negate or copy the theme of the class.

I'm pretty sure I pointed out (in great detail) why Dragonsworn wouldn't work. It has little to do with my position on the Tinker class.

No. You tried to.

So you honestly believe that a Runemaster concept and a Necromancer concept had equal potential with a Death Knight concept in a game that was designed AFTER Warcraft 3, which had a main antagonist that was a Death Knight, and had one of the other character class' core concepts already wrapped up in its ability set?

Given Blizzard said as much - yes. Its how game development works. You don't put all your eggs in one basket. Blizzard m,ight have started with a dozen or so concepts, selected three of four with the most promise and then ended up rolling several into one. That Arthas was a DK played a role in the selection - but the Oriental theme of MoP guaranteed that Monk was going to be added. The link/stereotype is too great to ignore. But to suggest that WC3 is the one and only yardstick by which acceptability is measured is wrong.

Yes or No; Is Monk class is based on the Brewmaster hero from WC3?

No. The Monk class came about because its the obvious class of an Oriental Xpac. Once that choice was made, Blizzard then rolled Chens Brewmaster into the class design.

EJL

[Deleted]

Does that mean we will see Illidan once more? (I'll talk about that later)


And I can see Illidan in this expansion, players LOVE him and many would like to see him once more, but right now he'd be Demon Hunter class trainer(like Darion for Death Knights, but his role would be bigger, I'd even say like Tirion in Wotlk).

Considering the Illidan thing, when they mentioned of Illidan returning, it was before the final patch of Dragon Soul at which we got 3x dungeons, one of them was The Well of Eternity where we had Illidan so I'm pretty sure they hinted we'd see them there. Just my thought

[Deleted]

Next will probably be Burning Legion, there are so many things that point to it, also Metzen hinted we will need the help from Alleria and Turalyon after MoP and he wasn't sure if they'll show up in MoP or not, meaning they had Burning Legion themed expansion planned to be the next after MoP and weren't sure if they'll bring us a patch with them before the expansion hits or when it hits. He was also asked about Sargeras and he said we won't be seeing, as in fighting him soon. So what do we get from here?

They say Alleria and Turalyon will be back in the next expansion and on top of that no Sargeras yet planned. Which means it's not going to be the last Burning Legion expansion, but are planning at least two Burning Legion expansions if not more in the future. That's why I'm so sure it's going to be Nathrezim leading the offensive from Xoroth. Burning Legion yes, but Nathrezim domain not Sargeras.

Just listen to him and you'll see what I mean. It's at 2:11:10, just so you don't have to check the whole show. Also listen to the bit about Sargeras at 2:14:20.

[GrieverXIII]

Game will just go down its current path, Blizzard made too many drastic changes to try to please and hold a volatile playerbase while pretty much ignoring the fanbase of what the game used to be. Sadly the crowd they tried to hook up is well known to have little attention span and tend to flock from games to games pretty often, and the new "in" things are MOBAS and F2P/P2W games, so no matter how dumbed down WoW becomes, it will continue bleeding subs while the fans move on as they remember what the company and the game used to be.

Expect more retarded horses, more paid services, more retarded cashmogs, paid boosts, paid gear (most likely using the Rift model, where you can buy the honor/justice equivalent to skip the grind), more gating to hold the casuals as long as they can, etc.

[Teriz]

The point is - you get the Sky Golem mount.

Do you think it credible that engineers would get THAT if Tinkers were to get a similar ability? This is the problem with having Engineering available.

In all seriousness, your argument is just silly.

Why wouldn't it be credible? Engineers can sell the Sky Golem for thousands of gold in the auction house. That's what crafters do, they build things and sell them to make gold. A Tinker using a Mech suit to tank a dungeon can't turn around and sell the suit to someone else for crazy amounts of gold. Additionally, I seriously doubt that such a form would allow a Tinker to achieve mount speed, or flight.

So on one hand you have an engineer getting rich off of building and selling a mount that can fly and travel at high speeds, and can harvest materials in flight, and on the other you have a Tinker tanking dungeons and raids in a robot suit. I'm not seeing your point here. One is doing what a crafter does, and the other is doing what a class does. The two are not related to one another, and the existence of one isn't detrimental to another.

As they aren't using tech to do it....no. Tinkers do. For the same reasons you've used to dismiss DHs in the past.

It's important to keep in mind that nothing you mentioned here is a Tinker ability, because none of the Tinker abilities exist in WoW.

I dismissed the DH because there were DH abilities being used by other CLASSES via class abilities. So your comparison here makes no sense.

Like I said, your argument is silly.

As it would be possible to do so without diluting the core theme of the class...I see no real reason against it. The use of fire magic, or time magic, or whatever - does not, in and of itself, negate or copy the theme of the class.

A magic-based caster class using Frost, Fire, and Arcane magic wouldn't dilute the Mage class that also uses Frost, Fire, and Arcane magic?

Given Blizzard said as much - yes. Its how game development works. You don't put all your eggs in one basket. Blizzard m,ight have started with a dozen or so concepts, selected three of four with the most promise and then ended up rolling several into one. That Arthas was a DK played a role in the selection - but the Oriental theme of MoP guaranteed that Monk was going to be added. The link/stereotype is too great to ignore. But to suggest that WC3 is the one and only yardstick by which acceptability is measured is wrong.

How is it wrong when all of the classes are derived from WC3?

No. The Monk class came about because its the obvious class of an Oriental Xpac. Once that choice was made, Blizzard then rolled Chens Brewmaster into the class design.

You do understand that the Brewmaster hero unit, and the legend of Pandaria lore that came with said Hero unit, came WAY before WoW was even conceived don't you? Also the Monk class kind of has ALL of the Brewmaster's abilities.

[Goundin]

I honestly think that Sargeras is too big of a villain to be in one expansion. I mean really, he's one of the reasons for everything being what it is. This whole South Seas expansion I don't know really about, might be more of a content patch, bringing Naga into a bigger role. Will we see Illidan again, yes and no. Yes, probably with a Demon Hunter starter, and no, he will not be a major character.

I feel Illidan's role will be with training the Demon Hunters prior to Black Temple. The Demon Hunters would be more of less hidden away, thought to be dead.

A lot of the content zones mentioned by OP are tied with the Legion in a way, so I feel we will start to see the connection coming to light in future patches and expansions. I cannot see 10-25 man raids bringing down the Lord of the Legion. Lore wise, makes zero sense. This would be a good time to bring in a) cross-faction event or b) bump the raid group back to 40. Even b would be pushing it, so I highly see a coming at that point. Blizzard in their sneaky way is already testing this with the 5.3 quests in Northern Barrens.

Fighting Sargeras will be no easy task, and not one faction should be able to bring him down. With bringing Sargeras in as an expansion boss, expect to see more Old Gods and the Titans and new worlds.

All this is my opinion.

One last thing, Emerald Dream expansion, unlikely. Expect to see it in the next Legion expansion though.

[Rhamses]

I'm thinking ocean-based expansion where Azshara raises a continent from the Maelstrom and uses it to launch invasions all over Azeroth.
I think we're going to be seeing a new class, because as Teriz said we've had 2 expansions in a row where new races have been added, and they're working on new models. I don't necessarily agree with him that Tinkers are going to be that class though.

[Xalzel]

I want a new continent the size of EK or Kal on the other side of the world, South Seas just sounds shallow.

[Talen]

Why wouldn't it be credible?

DO you think it likely Blizzard would allow the creation of a unit which duplicates the look and feel of a planned class? Theer was a reason Blizzard came down hard on player who managed to tame Worgen.

It's important to keep in mind that nothing you mentioned here is a Tinker ability, because none of the Tinker abilities exist in WoW.

Its important to keep in mind that the abilities I did mention are abilities that a Tinker can be expected to have. No, we don't know wht abiltiies the class would have....but if we rule out the abiltiies that ENgineers get, it quickly becomes a very small list.

I dismissed the DH because there were DH abilities being used by other CLASSES via class abilities. So your comparison here makes no sense.

Only because you draw distinctions where none exist. Why should it matter if an ability is class or profession based if they both sue the tech them and gfiev the same look/feel/whatever.

Yes. You can argue that profession based abilities aren't quite as critical/improtanta s class absed ones.

But they still exist.

A magic-based caster class using Frost, Fire, and Arcane magic wouldn't dilute the Mage class that also uses Frost, Fire, and Arcane magic?

See, you aren't even making an effort to see how Dragonsworn could fit. For one thing...who said it had to be a caster class. For another, other classes also have abilities that are arcane or frost or fire based and do so without diluting themes. You are simply dismissing the concept out of hand simply to avoid confronting the fact that Tinkers are not an inevitable addition.

You don't like the Dragonsworn concept? Fine. How about the Bard? A class based the manipulation of sound and music. Much like the Mantid. Or perhaps flesh out the Blood Mage concept into a class who works based upon the manipulation of life energies.

"Tech" is not the only theme that is available shouid Blizzard wish to use it.

You do understand that the Brewmaster hero unit, and the legend of Pandaria lore that came with said Hero unit, came WAY before WoW was even conceived don't you? Also the Monk class kind of has ALL of the Brewmaster's abilities.

You are aware that the Monk class concept and its association with the East predates WoW? Or even Warcraft? Have you not noticed that the Brewmaster is not very Monklike in theme or concept?

Regardless - your assertion that tinkers are the only possible choice and are inevitable is wrong.

EJL

[Teriz]

DO you think it likely Blizzard would allow the creation of a unit which duplicates the look and feel of a planned class? Theer was a reason Blizzard came down hard on player who managed to tame Worgen.

No I don't, which is why I don't believe that a Tinker class would be piloting a bunch of steam mechs that resemble Sky Golems, or other mechs.

Its important to keep in mind that the abilities I did mention are abilities that a Tinker can be expected to have. No, we don't know wht abiltiies the class would have....but if we rule out the abiltiies that ENgineers get, it quickly becomes a very small list.

You mean the abilities attached to trinkets right? Abilities that quickly become useless once you continue to level? You could exclude all of those abilities and you could still create a very robust Tinker class out of it.

Only because you draw distinctions where none exist. Why should it matter if an ability is class or profession based if they both sue the tech them and gfiev the same look/feel/whatever.

Because a class ability doesn't go obsolete once you reach a certain level. A class ability doesn't have to be crafted. A class ability doesn't take up an armor spot. A class ability can be put up in an auction house. A class ability helps you perform a role.

Yes. You can argue that profession based abilities aren't quite as critical/improtanta s class absed ones.

But they still exist.

So does first aid. Should a guild fire all of its healers because a couple of Warriors have maxed out the first aid profession? If your answer is no, then that eliminates your entire argument here.

See, you aren't even making an effort to see how Dragonsworn could fit. For one thing...who said it had to be a caster class. For another, other classes also have abilities that are arcane or frost or fire based and do so without diluting themes. You are simply dismissing the concept out of hand simply to avoid confronting the fact that Tinkers are not an inevitable addition.

Well its hard taking such an idea seriously when it doesn't make any sense. Again, the Green and Blue Dragonflight are already connected to two existing classes. The black dragon flight has no Dragonsworn. The Bronze is Time-based, and the Red is fire based. I suppose you could structure a class that uses fire melee, but then that clashes with Enhancement Shaman. I couldn't even begin to fathom how you would structure a time-based melee spec.

Then comes the other thing where lore sort of doesn't make sense. How would one person become the Dragonsworn of multiple dragonflights? That's sort of impossible. There's also a lack of unique abilities, lack of history of any type of Dragonsworn unit or hero from WC3, the closeness of the specs to Mage specs, among other problems.

You don't like the Dragonsworn concept? Fine. How about the Bard? A class based the manipulation of sound and music. Much like the Mantid. Or perhaps flesh out the Blood Mage concept into a class who works based upon the manipulation of life energies. "Tech" is not the only theme that is available shouid Blizzard wish to use it.

There's no basis for a Bard in the Warcraft universe. I've never seen a Bard unit, or witnessed a Bard fighting anything in any Warcraft game.

That Blood Mage concept sounds just like Warlocks who also manipulate life energies.

Tech not only has the WC3 hero and units backing it, but it has numerous NPCs and bosses, it has a faction leader using it, its has two races on opposite factions utilizing it, and its unlike other class theme in the game.

You are aware that the Monk class concept and its association with the East predates WoW? Or even Warcraft? Have you not noticed that the Brewmaster is not very Monklike in theme or concept?

You mean other than the fact that the Brewmaster is based on Drunken Kung Fu (Zi Quan)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zui_Quan

Or the fact that Chen Stormstout is a Panda which is a Chinese animal that just happened to be wearing the garb of a Chinese martial artist/Monk?

Regardless - your assertion that tinkers are the only possible choice and are inevitable is wrong.

EJL

Again, only if you ignore the evidence.

[Rhamses]

In short, if you can find another class concept that had a corresponding WC3 hero, can wear mail armor, can use ranged weapons, can heal/tank/DPS, can be played by all or most races, is unlike any other class currently in the game, and has no WC3 abilities that would overlap with any of the existing classes, I'm all ears.

Are you sure that the Tinkerer covers all of that?

[Rosencrantz]

Honestly, I heard whispers of the Emerald Dream becoming a thing and it has gotten me back to these boards.

As far as retconning for the other classes to be able to enter the dream.... Ysera is still alive and kicking, and could easily be the tool used to bring non-druids to the dream. Remulos ports non-druids into the dream in WotLK for a quest. Getting non-druids there isn't an issue. It has literally already been done in the lore. (http://www.wowwiki.com/Quest:Hope_Wi...rald_Nightmare)

Pretty much returning to good lore would spark my interest. They definitely improved gameplay in pandaria, but the setting made me lose interest very quickly. I was only subbed for a couple months before unsubbing again.

tl;dr Emerald Dream or Burning Legion.

[Teriz]

Are you sure that the Tinkerer covers all of that?

Yes. If you question any of that, just let me know.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Next will probably be Burning Legion, there are so many things that point to it, also Metzen hinted we will need the help from Alleria and Turalyon after MoP and he wasn't sure if they'll show up in MoP or not, meaning they had Burning Legion themed expansion planned to be the next after MoP and weren't sure if they'll bring us a patch with them before the expansion hits or when it hits. He was also asked about Sargeras and he said we won't be seeing, as in fighting him soon. So what do we get from here?

They say Alleria and Turalyon will be back in the next expansion and on top of that no Sargeras yet planned. Which means it's not going to be the last Burning Legion expansion, but are planning at least two Burning Legion expansions if not more in the future. That's why I'm so sure it's going to be Nathrezim leading the offensive from Xoroth. Burning Legion yes, but Nathrezim domain not Sargeras.

Just listen to him and you'll see what I mean. It's at 2:11:10, just so you don't have to check the whole show. Also listen to the bit about Sargeras at 2:14:20.

I used to say it'd be the Legion, and that it'd be a 10-level expansion.

But since then I've read the recent GC interviews. About how they're planning long-term, about how they want to do shorter cycles, about how they like the naga stuff, and even how they are totally non-commital to a new class right now.

And I just can't think they'll do a 10 level expansion anymore. I also know they'll add Demon Hunter, and do a Legion expansion for level 100.

And that leaves Azshara to be next by process of elimination.