HOLY: Mastery rating

[TirielWoW]

I use glyphed renew on most fights and on heroic iron qon it is about 10%+ of my healing usually. Sanc isn't really something I care about for % of my total healing because its only important for buffing your burst healing and its good for that. Lightwell is usually fairly substantial as well; although it varies greatly on some fights and healer setups, I can't imagine a time they aren't 10% or more combined, for 25 man anyways.

not sure why you think I don't like the lightwell breakpoints?

Oh. >.<

You know, it's because that other guy was an undead priest, and you're an undead priest, and I just got it into my head that it was an undead priest. I'm sorry. :-\

If you were a Panda this would not have happened! >.>

[Vicarious]

Oh. >.<

You know, it's because that other guy was an undead priest, and you're an undead priest, and I just got it into my head that it was an undead priest. I'm sorry. :-\

If you were a Panda this would not have happened! >.>

I'm actually a goblin(hence the haste) since like the end of t11 I just left that as my sig because I still like undead

[ramennoodleking]

...why would you ever want that much Haste? I just...why? And...Crit?!!!!!!!!!

At 13163 haste the glyphed renew, when refreshed in serenity, is treated as unglyphed in terms of extra renews ticks. Stting in serenity full time allows you to use cascade to refresh renew on 6+ people, Heal, BH, GH, FH in true triage style. Take FDCL for the flash procs, PI for burst. You take crit because renew benefits more from it than mastery. It's a perfectly viable and very very strong build, especially when you get good at it. Jhazrun of Paragon plays holy like that.

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No. That much haste is....just no. Mastery>Haste for 25 man. And if 10 man you would be gearing around a renew break point most likely. Lightwell having an extra tick is nice but look at what makes up the bulk of a high parsing holy's healing.

Echoes of light will be in the top three.
Renew, Lightwell Renew, and Holy Word: Sanctuary ticks COMBINED will not make up more than 10% in 25 man.

My post was directed to the OP, who is in a ten man. My advice was sound because this is about 10s, not 25s. You were just too quick to want to appear smart or something. Besides, 13163 IS a renew breakpoint. Further, if you choose to go PoH, haste is only useful for PoH cast speed, so 2.0 is an easy speed to shoot for. Both of those builds are extremely viable, and in fact the 13163 serenity build is much better at triage and throttled healing than the standard PoH/CoH spam. Many top 10 man holy priests use this, and it's gonna be even more lucrative if the current 5.4 changes stay in tact.

[laplacedemon]

That 'crit' you get with renew breakpoint exists pretty much only in theory anyway. After getting spirit and 13k haste, you don't have any meaningful amounts of extra stats left.

[ramennoodleking]

That 'crit' you get with renew breakpoint exists pretty much only in theory anyway. After getting spirit and 13k haste, you don't have any meaningful amounts of extra stats left.

Well of course not, but you can expect this to change come 5.4. And that doesn't change the fact that crit is higher valued than mastery in that build...assuming you manage to have the stay budget after haste and spirit.

[Vicarious]

Yeah for 10 man I would definitely try that, I missed where he said 10 man in the OP. But yeah when divine star is hitting 25 people and divine hymn is so absurdly powerful in 25 man, mastery is very potent. When you're looking at 2 healing 10 man heroics and using a lot of a spell that doesn't even benefit from mastery and only benefits from haste in chunks its no question crit is the next option. Also I find that in 25 man the level 90 talents are much more healing than in 10s because of how the target capping on halo and divine star work where you can get people spread just far enough in a semi-circle or line to hit them all for the full amount when positioned right. Cascade is like the default option when neither can be abused or there is constant but fairly low damage and un-glyphed renew can be refreshed more reliably maybe even for free with a meta gem proc for efficiency. Whereas in 10 man the other two options don't have as much potential so setting up a build around cascade and renew only makes sense to make the best use of that talent tier and still have good burst/spot healing. I really like that the new FDCL procing off AoE heals is bringing back some of the surge of light spot heal playstyle to 25 man especially with the bound to be made baseline 2 set next tier.

[ramennoodleking]

The serenity play style has a much higher skill cap and is ineffective if you are three healing encounters.

[TirielWoW]

My post was directed to the OP, who is in a ten man. My advice was sound because this is about 10s, not 25s. You were just too quick to want to appear smart or something. Besides, 13163 IS a renew breakpoint. Further, if you choose to go PoH, haste is only useful for PoH cast speed, so 2.0 is an easy speed to shoot for. Both of those builds are extremely viable, and in fact the 13163 serenity build is much better at triage and throttled healing than the standard PoH/CoH spam. Many top 10 man holy priests use this, and it's gonna be even more lucrative if the current 5.4 changes stay in tact.

You had me until you accused Winni of "trying to sound smart." Winni is one of the most self-depreciating healers I know. I've tried to convince her for some time now that she's a good healer, but Winni never believes me. You're so barking up the wrong tree, dude. :-\

[ramennoodleking]

You had me until you accused Winni of "trying to sound smart." Winni is one of the most self-depreciating healers I know. I've tried to convince her for some time now that she's a good healer, but Winni never believes me. You're so barking up the wrong tree, dude. :-\

And you had me until you blindly defended her. It's not my fault she didn't take the time to read a whole series of posts and its certainly not my fault she unaware of the potential healing style. She "accused" me of being wrong with her opening statement of "no...just no."

I don't mean to start an argument with you, but you should go back and reread the exchange...she's the one who came at my comment strong.

[TirielWoW]

And you had me until you blindly defended her. It's not my fault she didn't take the time to read a whole series of posts and its certainly not my fault she unaware of the potential healing style. She "accused" me of being wrong with her opening statement of "no...just no."

I don't mean to start an argument with you, but you should go back and reread the exchange...she's the one who came at my comment strong.

And you're the one making assumptions about her intentions. Winni was just trying to help. The OP didn't make it clear which raid size he was speaking of. I had to ask myself.

[ramennoodleking]

And you're the one making assumptions about her intentions. Winni was just trying to help. The OP didn't make it clear which raid size he was speaking of. I had to ask myself.

So you're telling me it's not her fault that she read through the thread, where before my post he specifies 10 man, and where I then afterwards explains two stat weight play styles for him? That's pretty baffling.

You can defend her if you want, though you are coming off awfully zealous. Fact is, all she had to do was read to discover the OPs situation. But instead, she zoned in on my post. Each to his or her own, but if you see this as my fault I don't know what more to tell you. She sure didn't hesitate to assume I was wrong.

[TirielWoW]

So you're telling me it's not her fault that she read through the thread, where before my post he specifies 10 man, and where I then afterwards explains two stat weight play styles for him? That's pretty baffling.

You can defend her if you want, though you are coming off awfully zealous. Fact is, all she had to do was read to discover the OPs situation. But instead, she zoned in on my post. Each to his or her own, but if you see this as my fault I don't know what more to tell you. She sure didn't hesitate to assume I was wrong.

I'm saying instead of attacking her for "trying to sound smart" (which is a huge assumption on your part), just address her post. You don't have to be a jerk about it while you're doing it.

[Vicarious]

she doesn't care enough to bother posting to argue so stop bickering like children over nothing please

[ramennoodleking]

I'm saying instead of attacking her for "trying to sound smart" (which is a huge assumption on your part), just address her post. You don't have to be a jerk about it while you're doing it.

And she didn't have to be a jerk with her comment? Sorry but she elicited it to start, I'm not sure how you fail to see that.

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she doesn't care enough to bother posting to argue so stop bickering like children over nothing please

Are you gonna spank me and take away my birthday?

[TirielWoW]

And she didn't have to be a jerk with her comment? Sorry but she elicited it to start, I'm not sure how you fail to see that

She wasn't being a jerk. But nice try.

[ramennoodleking]

She wasn't being a jerk. But nice try.

Ok, I'm sorry. She was being presumptuous. She wanted so badly to prove haste was bad she didn't bother reading the preceding posts.

[WinniPriest]

Woaah.
I'm not worth it!
Sorry I didn't check to see raid size first! Which is prefered in 10 now, sanc or serenity? I would assume that depends on your cohealers right?
Anyhoo Adinne's healing calculator (which I will give you a link for if you want) values haste pretty strongly for hpet but favors mastery for HPM.
So if you want more efficiency (assuming Sanc Chakra & Inner Fire) then mastery is still probably your best bet. If you are not concerned about mana then you can push for higher haste, particularly with HLG as Tiriel assures me it positively vomits forth mana at that point making haste builds more mana friendly.
I still personally prefer a "haste to taste but more mastery please" build.

Sorry again for the late night reading comprehension fail and a terse/flippant response noodle. Kiss and makeup yeah?

[TirielWoW]

Woaah.
I'm not worth it!

Bullshit. :-P

Anyhoo Adinne's healing calculator (which I will give you a link for if you want) values haste pretty strongly for hpet but favors mastery for HPM.

There is something wrong with that calculator, tho. It told me that HW: Sanc does more HPS than Divine Hymn.

[WinniPriest]

Bullshit. :-P



There is something wrong with that calculator, tho. It told me that HW: Sanc does more HPS than Divine Hymn.

Adinne said she fixed the value, though the increased target cap for hymn is going to wait till 5.4 overhaul of it.
Still interesting to look at stat weights for spells.

[Deleted]

A lot of ppl seem to find the maths governing holy spells difficult to get to grips with:

1) Glyph of lightwell is just not worth it compared to glyph of CoH in my view. The CoH glyph is more HPS hands down as the logs easily show. Lightwell does not proc EoL as far as I can tell so ppl looking at logs often forget to roll EoL into CoH. The CoH glyph buffs CoH by 20%.

However the glyphs alter play style. If you don't glyph CoH, it stops being useful to cast it compared to PoH/PoM and if you glyph lightwell it gets a big boost. That means you need to look at logs of players who glyph and use CoH to find out if the glyph is worth it. I find that it's return is generally noticeably larger than the lightwell glyph and still remains significant after considering the extra mana spent.

2) Renew/serenity centric builds, which are really 10man only, benefit from haste even without reaching the breakpoints. The breakpoints for HoTs depend on the number of ticks. Thus the breakpoints are far apart only because the ticks are so few. When you have refreshed hots, you end up with a large number of closely spaced breakpoints, so that effectively the breakpoint behaviour is abolished and the HPCT increases linearly with decreased time between ticks. That means haste for renew/serenity builds no longer has a discontinuous return. The durations are often more than 30s with over 10 ticks so even relatively small increases in haste give you more ticks. . More importantly having more haste makes it easier to keep more renews alive, which also linearly scales with renew HPS. The result is for renew/serenity builds, just like druid builds haste double dips massively. Since it is much cheaper than crit/mastery and stacks multiplicatively with buffs it is generally the best stat to stack. Since you are mostly using cheap spells, this can be sustainable without going overboard in spirit. I don't really like this playstyle though. I don't think you are going to be as good as a druid at HoT blanketing the raid, especially in 5.4. If you keep both a holy and a disc spec, it is also extremely annoying to manage.

3) Haste benefits almost all our other spells pretty much equally. More haste = more casts = more EoL. You can expect more EoL from stacking haste than from stacking mastery if mana wasn't a concern. Hymn ticks faster you spend less time casting it and more time healing, more PoH = more DI procs so more PoM healing. Only CoH is not affected by haste. Mastery is the only stat that improves HPM and HPS together in a meaningful way for holy though. So since our spell selection is largely determined by mana, mastery is the go-to stat for holy in 25man atm.