Is Blizzard still quality games maker?

[Rhozul]

I think Blizzard is still top-quality in the industry. For one, virtually no other video game producer has the design transparency that Blizzard has. Who else has open Betas and regularly converses with their fans about future changes to their games? They understand that they have a passionate fanbase and embrace it.

When people complain about Blizzard games, I honestly sometimes wonder if we're the ones who are the problem. If we're the ones who are changing while Blizzard is just staying true to the games they've made. Diablo III is, in its essence, Diablo II. There are changes, sure, and you might not like every tiny change Blizzard made to the formula, but for the most part those changes are tiny ones. Now I can't speak for everyone, but I was about 13 when Diablo III came out. What was entertaining to me when I was 13 is not entertaining to me as an adult. Genres evolve, interests change, and the overall expectations that gamers have changes too. I read an awesome article about how Super Mario Bros. wouldn't have been the commercial success it was if it was released today with the appropriate graphics and hardware capabilities.

We, the audience, are changing.

The problem is, we're not all changing at the same pace, and catering to one group is going to ostracize other groups. At this point, Blizzard's best bet is to stick to their guns, work towards their vision, and let the people who aren't down with Warcraft's slowly evolving formula float away. All 3.3 million of them. Blizzard talks about how its business model can't leave the subscribe to play method. Well, it also wasn't designed around 10 million players at the get-go either. I don't think WoW's population going down is going to kill WoW, not until we're looking at the >1 millions anyway.

[LilSaihah]

Well you just said they were "just trying to keep up" and so I asked with WHAT exactly in THEIR branches they compete in ...

the rest follows at how many miles ??? in each branche ... both in success (sales) as in the mentioned game play essentials like fluid combat and polish.

So no general fruit talk here: talk apples to apples and bananas to bananas.

RTS, ARPG, MMORPG and the upcoming CCG on line play ...

If you would take each branche and compare it with a race, the rest follows miles behind in both success rates as in general polish and long term support.

I'm not qualified enough to really talk about D3(didn't buy it, it's still at full price which is hilarious, I might buy it if it were $10 or $20), SC2 MP(I don't play multiplayer that much), or Hearthstone(I'm not keeping up with it). I know for a fact that I disagree with you about a lot of things about WoW, so it's not really worth going into a discussion about that. That leaves SC2's singleplayer story.

WoL was okay-ish. It wasn't good on any kind of real artistic, deep merit, but it was schlocky and was at least 'fun'. It was the summer blockbuster of video games. Missions were fun, though in some places too easy.
HotS completely removed any semblance of fun and went for a deep, dark tone, but the writing was completely bereft of any logic whatsoever so it just didn't make any sense whatsoever; including but not limited to drastic tone shifts and a completely unbelievable main character. Missions felt very derivative of WoL missions, and most certainly not their par.

[BenBos]

I'm not qualified enough to really talk about D3(didn't buy it, it's still at full price which is hilarious, I might buy it if it were $10 or $20), SC2 MP(I don't play multiplayer that much), or Hearthstone(I'm not keeping up with it). I know for a fact that I disagree with you about a lot of things about WoW, so it's not really worth going into a discussion about that.

Even in WoW the gap is HUGE in both succces rate (revenue and subscription model) and in polish and NEW introduced mechanics in a 9 year old game.

Ever wondered why Blizzard is the only one with seamless phasing, making Farms and Pet Battles and seamless cross server in the open world ... possible without loading screens ?

You know THAT is exactly what we talk about: NOT if you like certain games or game mechanics, but the very way they implement it, even in 9 year old products.

The smoothness, the seamless, the fluidity, the responsiveness, in fact the game play and its flow.

And that's independant of whether you actually like a playing style or story.

[LilSaihah]

Even in WoW the gap is HUGE in both succces rate (revenue and subscription model) and in polish and NEW introduced mechanics in a 9 year old game.

New mechanics? The only new mechanic that I've seen in WoW, lately, has been the colossal turd that is LFR.

Ever wondered why Blizzard is the only one with seamless phasing, making Farms and Pet Battles and seamless cross server in the open world ... possible without loading screens ?

Phased farms seamless cross server? Runescape.
Pet Battles? Well that's because no other MMO has pet battles. Because it's a huge feature with little to no actual benefit which would be better off as a stand-alone product. Are there similar minigames which are in the world without loading screens in other games? Yep. Belcher's Bluff in GW2 as a lazy example.

You know THAT is exactly what we talk about: NOT if you like certain games or game mechanics, but the very way they implement it, even in 9 year old products.

The smoothness, the seamless, the fluidity, the responsiveness, in fact the game play and its flow.

And that's independant of whether you actually like a playing style or story.

No it isn't. Not in any way. All those things are directly tied to the playing style. If you don't like a game's playstyle, it's entirely likely that it's because the controls and optimisation are poor and clunky.

Unless you're just trying to sneak in this "LOL WORLD IS SEAMLESS DAT MAKES IT THE BEST" in which case fuck off nobody cares.

And it just seems like you want to completely dismiss the idea of the story having value. The story is the absolute core of the modern RPG. If you don't have a solid story, the player has no chance of being immersed, and immersion is a huge factor in how 'fun' you find certain genres of games.

[BenBos]

Game play first with HUGE POLISH and fast responsive combat.

all the rest is added fluff in video games.

Blizzard makes on line games. It is the player that counts not some idiotic NPC who tells a story.

You know the only stories and voices that count in on line games are the players stories and voices' "We did it dude, we downed the bitches". THAT is immersion.

That's why Blizzard games are still played after 10 years and story tellers are shelved within 10 weeks.

Getting compliments from an NPC telling a pre fixed story is embarrasing really. It is a background painting at best.

I thought SW TOR tought everyone a lesson, apparently not ...

[vesseblah]

Are there similar minigames which are in the world without loading screens in other games? Yep. Belcher's Bluff in GW2 as a lazy example.

Really lazy example because you'll have loading screens in GW2 every 10-15 minutes while doing your story quest because every fucking NPC is instanced. That's totally ridiculous.

[BenBos]

Haha! WHAT. SC2 is not huge and getting bigger, in fact it's getting killed by lol and Blizzard refusing to promote it. Even pros have admitted the game will die before lotv. Yeah it's good and a way better competitive game than lol but it's struggling as an e-sport because hardly anyone whos not a pro want to play it.

Compare apples with apples.

SC2 is an RTS. There really is no competition for SC2 in RTS play right now.

LOL is a Dota game.

Blizzard didn't enter that market yet. It will be their next project after the CCG invasion with Hearthstone.

I predict Blizzard All Stars the number one dota game as soon as it launches, just like WoW was for MMO's and HS will obliterate any other digital CCG.

You may bookmark this page. LOL's engine is so ridiculous, no one will keep playing it once Blizzard's dota engine will launch. Everyone and his dog will want to play these new free to play Blizzard games.

It has been like this for 15 years: once Blizzard enters that specific market segment, it blows the competition to pieces for more than a decade.

[LilSaihah]

Game play first with HUGE POLISH and fast responsive combat.

Really? Because there's a long list of games that had otherwise absolutely, horrendously horrible gameplay which are considered classics to this day because of their story. The 'Shock games, for example. The KotORs. Even some Blizzard games which are horrible by today's standards are ones that I like to pick up and play through for their story.

Blizzard makes on line games. It is the player that counts not some idiotic NPC who tells a story.

Yes. Yes, you're right.

So Blizzard should put more emphasis on the player, and not on Thrall/Vol'jin/Anduin/Varian.

You know the only stories and voices that count in on line games are the players stories and voices' "We did it dude, we downed the bitches". THAT is immersion.

That's an adrenaline rush. Close, but not quite.

That's why Blizzard games are still played after 10 years and story tellers are shelved within 10 weeks.

Do you play Warcraft 3 for... The gameplay? Do you play competitive multiplayer? Do you play around with map mods?

I doubt it. If you're going to download Warcraft 3, 99% of the time, it's so that you can play through the single-player campaign.

Getting compliments from an NPC telling a pre fixed story is embarrasing really. It is a background painting at best.

It sets the story up. If you accomplish something difficult, it breaks disbelief if nobody actually acknowledges that. Characters actually getting their accolades and being acknowledged is a fantastic way of making the setting more believable.

I thought SW TOR tought everyone a lesson, apparently not ...

That you shouldn't be too derivative of WoW?
That you shouldn't half-ass your engine?
SWTOR having a story wasn't the cause of its less than expected results. Its ultra-directed, personal story is one of its best features, as it's the ultimate crux of the game and several systems revolve around it (like Companions and Legacy, two other systems that I am a massive fan of). If that story was not there, the game would have literally killed EA.

Really lazy example because you'll have loading screens in GW2 every 10-15 minutes while doing your story quest because every fucking NPC is instanced. That's totally ridiculous.

Are you a polevaulter? Because you're really goddamn good at missing the point.

You may bookmark this page. LOL's engine is so ridiculous, no one will keep playing it once Blizzard's dota engine will launch. Everyone and his dog will want to play these new free to play Blizzard games.

Sure, this can go in the scrapbook.

[Vankrys]

Getting compliments from an NPC telling a pre fixed story is embarrasing really. It is a background painting at best.

I thought SW TOR tought everyone a lesson, apparently not ...

i don't know man, i enjoy a game with a good story. What i don't enjoy however is reading text log. WoW combat system is for the most part excellent, so is the content (except LFR, horrible beast)

but this is 2013, i do expect RPG to be fully voiced at this point. It's like you said, they literally printing money with that MMO, they could, i don't know, maybe spend a tiny fraction, like 50 millions, not even a month revenue, to fully voice at least an expac.

cheapskate

[BenBos]

i don't know man, i enjoy a game with a good story. What i don't enjoy however is reading text log. WoW combat system is for the most part excellent, so is the content (except LFR, horrible beast)

but this is 2013, i do expect RPG to be fully voiced at this point. It's like you said, they literally printing money with that MMO, they could, i don't know, maybe spend a tiny fraction, like 50 millions, not even a month revenue, to fully voice at least an expac.

cheapskate

the voice overs are mostly terrible. Because NPC's dont make for smart communications, repeating the same lines over and over.

The problem is that the core of video gaming is the game play, not NPC's telling stories over and over again, with players hitting space bars to skip them instead of keys to play to have fun combat.

That's why Blizzard will never enter the Skyrim mechanics: in a Blizzard game the controls and actions takes precedence over non fluid combat and long story telling.

Or how did Pardo put it ? Game play first and the player plays the story he doesn't listen to it.

The only meaningful voices in on line games are player voices.

[vesseblah]

Are you a polevaulter? Because you're really goddamn good at missing the point.

I'm missing the point? Point was that WoW does not have loading screens everywhere unlike games that are far lesser polished. That is Blizzard quality for you in a seamless world.

[LilSaihah]

I'm missing the point? Point was that WoW does not have loading screens everywhere unlike games that are far lesser polished. That is Blizzard quality for you in a seamless world.

His point was that you could play a minigame without entering an instance out in the world. That's true.
My point was that this is not a feature unique to WoW. This is also true.
Your point was that the example I used was a bad one because a completely different game system uses instancing; story progression. Except WoW does do that for the exact same purpose. What do you think Scenarios are?
If you mean "the world itself is seamless" that's something that I explicitly told BenBos to shut up about because I do not give two shits about that.

[Wildmoon]

Haha! WHAT. SC2 is not huge and getting bigger, in fact it's getting killed by lol and Blizzard refusing to promote it. Even pros have admitted the game will die before lotv. Yeah it's good and a way better competitive game than lol but it's struggling as an e-sport because hardly anyone whos not a pro want to play it.

Which pros are you talking about that said SC2 will die before LotV? and pls don't bring up that loser pro name Destiny. SC2 is not as big as LoL but that doesn't even mean it's not big. ARTS as whole has huge playerbase that it's stupid to compare playerbase with RTs game. SC2 is hardly struggling when WCS EU last ight got really good viewer counts.

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WoL was okay-ish. It wasn't good on any kind of real artistic, deep merit, but it was schlocky and was at least 'fun'. It was the summer blockbuster of video games. Missions were fun, though in some places too easy.
HotS completely removed any semblance of fun and went for a deep, dark tone, but the writing was completely bereft of any logic whatsoever so it just didn't make any sense whatsoever; including but not limited to drastic tone shifts and a completely unbelievable main character. Missions felt very derivative of WoL missions, and most certainly not their par

WoL and HotS's campaigne are far from okay-ish. Their stories may not be that good but their gameplay are praised as the best and most varied gameplay for campaigne in this genre.

[Vankrys]

the voice overs are mostly terrible. Because NPC's dont make for smart communications, repeating the same lines over and over.

The problem is that the core of video gaming is the game play, not NPC's telling stories over and over again, with players hitting space bars to skip them instead of keys to play to have fun combat.

That's why Blizzard will never enter the Skyrim mechanics: in a Blizzard game the controls and actions takes precedence over non fluid combat and long story telling.

Or how did Pardo put it ? Game play first and the player plays the story he doesn't listen to it.

The only meaningful voices in on line games are player voices.

what are you talking about "voice overs are mostly terrible"
i found skyrim voice over pretty good, given the scope of the game. Hitman absolution voice acgting is top of the line. Tomb raider voice acting is awesome from start to finish. Some voice acting gave so much personality, vilain like handsome jack or Vaas Montenegro are considered among the most charismatic villain of video games.

so i repeat the question, what are you on saying that in video games "voice overs are mostly terrible"


i agree that voice acting though is not the main feature of a video game, gameplay mechanics are, followed by battle or level design. Still any AAA games, MMO or otherwise, must have full quality voice acting nowaday. it's 2013. I want to be immerse in the game y story, good voice, music and sound effect. i don't want to open the map, check the colored area, and start killing for drop and XP, i want a story. I would even classify sound quality (voice, music, effect) as higher priority than graphic in my book.

So that is the difference between you and me. I know what i want, i want immersion, story, voice and if possible good graphics, and obviously, priority to game mechanic and design. I will be playing TESO for the immersive experience. I will not be drawn back into reading text log and/or rushing max level to farm tier gear.

i do not agree that only voice that matter is teamspeak or ventrillo, that's community interaction, this is not game design.

[BenBos]

His point was that you could play a minigame without entering an instance out in the world. That's true.
My point was that this is not a feature unique to WoW. This is also true.
Your point was that the example I used was a bad one because a completely different game system uses instancing; story progression. Except WoW does do that for the exact same purpose. What do you think Scenarios are?
If you mean "the world itself is seamless" that's something that I explicitly told BenBos to shut up about because I do not give two shits about that.

so tell me which other game has phasing in the open world and seamless open world cross server play without loading screens..

I tell you none, so it is more than unique.

you talk about immersion ?

having loading screens every time you meet a quest giver, going from Stormwind to Elwyn Forest going from EW to Westfall, jumping through hoops instead of taking a horse, now that's immersive ???

LoL. GW2 is the most hyped up turd in the history of mmorpg's.

From not even having open world play or open world pvp to extreme silly zerg combats with NO specs on avatars.

Blablabla, but actually regression in every inch of its cheap short cut design.

You will never see these short cuts and fake statements from Blizzard.

[Deldavala]

Haha! WHAT. SC2 is not huge and getting bigger, in fact it's getting killed by lol and Blizzard refusing to promote it. Even pros have admitted the game will die before lotv. Yeah it's good and a way better competitive game than lol but it's struggling as an e-sport because hardly anyone whos not a pro want to play it.

SC2 is not as big as LoL due to a few reasons, one because its not F2P. The other thing is that the streaming and proffesional scene is much bigger in SC2 compared to LoL. I dont know if you ever heard about Barcraft which has been popular for years now all around the globe. LoL just picked it up, but it hasnt been as popular.

The sheer revenue stream related to SC2 competitions and league play is gigantic in the US and Korea and even popular casters are making above average living of this game.

[Glorious Leader]

WoL and HotS's campaigne are far from okay-ish. Their stories may not be that good but their gameplay are praised as the best and most varied gameplay for campaigne in this genre.

Except for it being far to short I'd agree. Game was good just needed more of it.

you need to be less narrow minded, .

You must have not met BenBos before.

[Vankrys]

so tell me which other game has phasing in the open world and seamless open world cross server play without loading screens..

I tell you none, so it is more than unique.

you talk about immersion ?

having loading screens every time you meet a quest giver, going from Stormwind to Elwyn Forest going from EW to Westfall, jumping through hoops instead of taking a horse, now that's immersive ???

LoL. GW2 is the most hyped up turd in the history of mmorpg's.

From not even having open world play or open world pvp to extreme silly zerg combats with NO specs on avatars.

Blablabla, but actually regression in every inch of its cheap short cut design.

You will never see these short cuts and fake statements from Blizzard.

GW2 has its own design (that you obviously didn't dig), that does not make it a turd.
you need to be less narrow minded, other game than blizzard also have good innovation and mechanics (that blizzard may even borrow). Even if you don't enjoy the final product, you may enjoy particular mechanics or even global design.

you'd probably make a very bad game developper. i am persuaded that wow lead designers plays tons of other games, scratch that, enjoy tons of other games, if anything, to give them fresh perspective and enhance their creative skill.

[vesseblah]

Your point was that the example I used was a bad one because a completely different game system uses instancing; story progression. Except WoW does do that for the exact same purpose. What do you think Scenarios are?

WoW uses seamless phasing for story progression in 9 cases out o 10, check out worgen/goblin starting areas for an example. Scenarios are used only in places where they want to limit the participants to some fixed number (usually one) to make sure nobody else can help or harm you while doing it (like the legendary quest). And they could've just cut out all those solo scenarios easily from isle of thunder progression and just phase it. No clue why they didn't go that way.

GW2 has its own design (that you obviously didn't dig), that does not make it a turd.

Having about fifty (painfully slow even from SSD!) loading screens while doing the very first area for levels 1-8ish (including the city for story quest NPC's) is a sign that the game is a turd compared to WoW. Although to be honest half of those were caused by overflow queues, but it still does not excuse the retarded server infrastructure they've designed.

[LilSaihah]

words

So, er.

You've done three seperate things here;

1. You're blatantly lying, because there are specs in GW2. My necro is 20/0/20/30/0 minion master.
2. You're misinterpreting information, as there aren't any quest-givers in GW2, and the closest analogy (rep hearts) aren't instanced (so go back to number 1).
3. You're blatantly game-bashing, which can get you into trouble.