Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Hatelocker]

Don't forget they haven't done any of the class balancing passes yet so it is a bit premature to be picking specs still.

[Diamondeye]

If you're talking about for Siege, Affliction is going to be the best spec of the tier once again. The new Soul Swap is extremely powerful.

I can almost bet that they are gonna hotfix this new soul swap just like they did last soul swap.

- - - Updated - - -

Affliction add burst is probably the best out of all the specs with the new soul swap and I don't think any fight on 25 man is going to have enough to warrant aoe over multi dotting except for Sha of Pride which still favors affliction because of how strong the spec is with Mannoroth's Fury and how perfectly it lines up with the add spawns. You'll probably want to go Demo on Protectors/Paragons with UVLS though regardless of if you play 10 or 25

And with the changes made to RPPM, aren't we going to want to drop UVLS like a rock as soon as we can replace it considering it's proc is almost rarely going to line up with Dark Soul and all of our other procs/buffs unless we get extremely lucky or we wait on our buffs until it procs?

[Jetjaguar]

I can almost bet that they are gonna hotfix this new soul swap just like they did last soul swap.

I'm sure the new soul swap is the way it is because they simply couldn't be bothered or couldn't figure out how to completely remove the crit carrying that people are still doing now so they simply made soul swap preserve all its power but keep it's duration as well while also making it so you couldn't hold onto those dots for longer than 6 seconds after you took it up. I think they are probably satisfied with this new soul swap as it's not possible to game powerful procs with it.

And with the changes made to RPPM, aren't we going to want to drop UVLS like a rock as soon as we can replace it considering it's proc is almost rarely going to line up with Dark Soul and all of our other procs/buffs unless we get extremely lucky or we wait on our buffs until it procs?

I think as far as single target goes, you'll probably want to work with new trinkets as you'll consistently see better results but I think on council fights, it doesn't really matter WHEN it procs, because when it does it'll be a significant damage enough damage increase to warrant using it because you'll almost always have so many targets available at a given time during the encounter.

[Diamondeye]

I believe the crit proc trinket is from the Isle, aka no heroic version.

Looking at all of the other trinkets that are out there....I'm prob gonna be holding onto the Isle trinket for a very long time and run crit-demo (if it turns out to be viable which I believe it will be)

- - - Updated - - -

I'm sure the new soul swap is the way it is because they simply couldn't be bothered or couldn't figure out how to completely remove the crit carrying that people are still doing now so they simply made soul swap preserve all its power but keep it's duration as well while also making it so you couldn't hold onto those dots for longer than 6 seconds after you took it up. I think they are probably satisfied with this new soul swap as it's not possible to game powerful procs with it.

Couldn't I get my procs, update all my DoTs on my main target, then use the new soul swap to copy all those buffed DoTs (which are benefitting from the procs and pandemic) onto other targets around me, therefore effectively "using my proc" to put super DoTs on everything without using soul shards (where as right now we have to SB:SS to replicate the scenario I just said)?

[FurtyIRL]

If you're talking about for Siege, Affliction is going to be the best spec of the tier once again. The new Soul Swap is extremely powerful.

No it's not. It's pretty fight dependent on PTR atm with demo pulling ahead a little on just over half the fights.

[Diamondeye]

Just to clarify, how is the current crit-demo "build" being stat prioritized? I'm assuming a huge amount of crit with a few haste break points then rest into mastery?

[varren]

Its also possible they over buff Destro at the last second then we can all run crit gem/reforges using Destro/Demo specs At least I hope that's how it turns out.

[Diamondeye]

Speaking of crit, does anyone else think that affliction's 2 piece is subpar?

[Brusalk]

Speaking of crit, does anyone else think that affliction's 2 piece is subpar?

I had near 100% uptime on some of the testing I was a part of.

[Diamondeye]

I had near 100% uptime on some of the testing I was a part of.

Really???
I was not expecting that.

[Deleted]

Really???
I was not expecting that.

I think 70-80% is a more realistic amount, but yes it seems quite easy to proc.

[Deleted]

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...52604267798528

When we start the tuning pass, you'd know, because there will be changes to many specs all at once. Estimating two PTRs from now.

[Woz]

I think 70-80% is a more realistic amount, but yes it seems quite easy to proc.

It is a very very high proc rate. But 70-80% is probably about right - still kinda iffy about the the 2P though. I guess we'll see.

[Brusalk]

Really???
I was not expecting that.

It lasts for something like 8 seconds.The chances that you'll get at least 1 crit in that period of time is:

1 - (1-Crit%)^(Tick Events)

Without even considering MG'd ticks or having any Haste, you'll have 4 chances for UA to crit. With 10% crit that's about 34% chance that you'll get 1 tick in those 8 seconds.
Get 20% crit and that's up to about 60%. Now, take into account that often we're easily hitting +2 UA breakpoints so that's actually 6 tick events, and you get probabilities like:

Crit % | Tick Events | % Chance of 1 tick
.1 | 4 | 34%
.1 | 6 | 46%
.2 | 4 | 59%
.2 | 6 | 73%
.3 | 4 | 76%
.3 | 6 | 88%

Now couple that with temp haste procs and it's quite easy to have really, really good uptime on the buff.

[Jessicka]

If you're talking about for Siege, Affliction is going to be the best spec of the tier once again. The new Soul Swap is extremely powerful.

Isn't crit demo supposed to be about equal to or better than Aff? If you use crit proc trinket you can still roll a 50%+ crit doom the entire fight.

Until they do a numbers pass, you're wasting your time guessing which will be best. We won't have reliable numbers until about 2 weeks before the patch goes live.

[Deleted]

It is a very very high proc rate. But 70-80% is probably about right - still kinda iffy about the the 2P though. I guess we'll see.

There are 2 pieces with haste+mastery anyway. You could get all HC TF ofc, but I think 2set will be worth more than those few ilvls.

[Xorn]

All of those concerns are boiled into the assumption that GoSac is roughly balanced to be equivalent to GoServ/Sup. You're confused because you're not making the same assumptions that I am.

GoSac is roughly balanced to be equivalent to GoServ/Sup taking everything into account. Pet fury gen, mastery, everything.

There's one thing you overlooked though: while Sac may be roughly equal to Serv/Sup, it would only benefit in the same proportion IF the 2 set bonus affected ALL of our damage, and that simply isn't the case.

With Sup/Serv the Wild Imps make a fairly large chunk of our damage. With Sac however, not only do they do increased damage due to the mechanics of Sac, but they also deal an increased proportion of our damage due to the lack of pet. So while they might have been 25% of our damage with Sup/Serv, they may be 30% of our total damage with Sac (unexact numbers). Therefore, with Sac a proportionally larger chunk of our damage will not benefit from the bonus than with Sup/Serv. If they were equal in theory before, then there is no mathematical way that they can be equal with that 2 set, as Sac will be empirically inferior.

[Jetjaguar]

I would not hold your breath for the numbers pass in regards to demo or affliction. They'll likely get nerfed, but I think unless destruction gets some big buffs you'll probably still be choosing between aff/demo.

[Brusalk]

There's one thing you overlooked though: while Sac may be roughly equal to Serv/Sup, it would only benefit in the same proportion IF the 2 set bonus affected ALL of our damage, and that simply isn't the case.

With Sup/Serv the Wild Imps make a fairly large chunk of our damage. With Sac however, not only do they do increased damage due to the mechanics of Sac, but they also deal an increased proportion of our damage due to the lack of pet. So while they might have been 25% of our damage with Sup/Serv, they may be 30% of our total damage with Sac (unexact numbers). Therefore, with Sac a proportionally larger chunk of our damage will not benefit from the bonus than with Sup/Serv. If they were equal in theory before, then there is no mathematical way that they can be equal with that 2 set, as Sac will be empirically inferior.

I did not realize Guardians didn't count for the bonus. That indeed throws it off a bit.

[Deleted]

I would not hold your breath for the numbers pass in regards to demo or affliction. They'll likely get nerfed, but I think unless destruction gets some big buffs you'll probably still be choosing between aff/demo.

Don't forget destruction can use the trinkets this tier quite a bit better; holding off the initial DS is not a big deal and was done to get more embers already anyway. Affliction on the other hand loves stacking procs very much, to get huge dots. The 4set is also great for destro. Not saying I think it will come out ahead, but it's not a given that it will be behind after the balance pass.