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  1. #181
    I have never and will never understand the request for the item squish because of the way numbers look. Commas and abbreviations for thousand and million (K and M) do a good enough job of differentiating numbers for us.
    It's needed because of the way the game scales as you level. Have you noticed how a naked player has about 148k life @ level 90, compared to a naked player having about 5k @ level 60? Players start off with 120 HP as a naked level 1. If the scaling was linear all the way to 90, then a naked player would have about 7k life, instead of 148k.

    But Blizzard doesn't understand how to keep things linear for the sake of game integrity, so they let things get way out of hand way too quickly. The item squish is inevitable, even if it's just to reign in the power creep of each expansion to tolerable levels.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    The problem with the item squish right now, is that a large majority of people who play video games have very little knowledge of mathematics, psychology, science, and computing.

    Until it becomes a problem large enough that a person of average intelligence can comprehend, the squish will be put off. This is why it seems the squish isn't very popular now.
    LOL. sorry about bumping a weeks old thread, but this comment i can't help.

    So, for me to be able to grasp things in a video game, i have to be a master in "mathematics, psychology, science, and computing"

    Since when i needed to be master of these things to enjoy my game?

  3. #183
    I think the biggest issue is they failed on their promise to have lower levels in Pandaria range compete with higher levels. They said back in beta that you should have a chance against someone within 2-3 levels of you but that isn't the case considering level 90s get 65% base resil compared to 40% below 90. This is still a problem from 85-89 due to how much stam and other stats inflate as you level.

  4. #184
    They need to do the squish, not just for damage output but for gear stats. It is fine to have damage show 499k but if gear shows 3.5k strength; 6k stamina etc it is going to aesthetically be awful and is that rounding down or up? If you have two items one has say
    6k stamina (6000)
    3.5k str (3580)
    2 red sockets
    1k str socket bonus (1000)

    and the other item is
    6k stamina (6000)
    3.5k str (3540)
    2 red sockets
    1k str socket bonus (1000)

    they will both show 3.5k but one will have 40 strength more than the other making it very marginally better.

    i dont agree wit hthe attitude of the op, or the absoluteness of statements in this thread, but I do think an item squish is a necessary change in the next expansion in order to prevent serious issues. I'd rather just have to reach 450 hit to be hit capped, not 45000 hit.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by anjan011 View Post
    LOL. sorry about bumping a weeks old thread, but this comment i can't help.

    So, for me to be able to grasp things in a video game, i have to be a master in "mathematics, psychology, science, and computing"

    Since when i needed to be master of these things to enjoy my game?
    Depends from the genre. Some detective-adventure games (there were like that back in time) required a good knowledge of psychology, some games require a good reaction skills, some games require a good logical thinking, some games require good planning skills, etc.

    RPGs require basic minimum knowledge of maths. There is no high math in WoW, so you don't need to be master of it.

    There are no games which require no knowledge or skills. That's oxymoron.
    They said back in beta that you should have a chance against someone within 2-3 levels of you but that isn't the case considering level 90s get 65% base resil compared to 40% below 90.
    Considering that WoW is RPG game, and level is one of measures of power, why should it be strange that lv88 has no chances against lv90? PvP balance is secondary and barely possible in game, where everyone is on different level of progression.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zatetic View Post
    They need to do the squish, not just for damage output but for gear stats. It is fine to have damage show 499k but if gear shows 3.5k strength; 6k stamina etc it is going to aesthetically be awful and is that rounding down or up?
    There is no need to shorten 4-5 digit numbers. If people can't comprehend even such numbers, it's their own problems.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Depends from the genre. Some detective-adventure games (there were like that back in time) required a good knowledge of psychology, some games require a good reaction skills, some games require a good logical thinking, some games require good planning skills, etc.

    RPGs require basic minimum knowledge of maths. There is no high math in WoW, so you don't need to be master of it.

    There are no games which require no knowledge or skills. That's oxymoron.
    Ah i guess i failed to explain better as i was laughing hard i don't think it needs to written explicitly that to do something u need skill, if u want to do it better. Every one gets it eventually, those who doesn't don't advance. U also keep in mind to the context on which the comment was made

  7. #187
    I am Murloc! Asrialol's Avatar
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    Ah, I remember when 25k was considered the highest damage number ever seen in this game..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDYZ9pE-aHo
    Hi

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    The problem is that the game doesn't function properly when numbers bypass 2,147,483,648. You can have an overlay that makes numbers 10 times bigger but the REAL number will have to be lower. And we are reaching it in terms of boss HP.

    "The number 2,147,483,647 is also the maximum value for a 32-bit signed integer in computing. It is therefore the maximum value for variables declared as int in many programming languages running on popular computers, and the maximum possible score, money etc. for many video games. The appearance of the number often reflects an error, overflow condition, or missing value."

    It's the same reason why Pacman stops at level 255. The system can't understand that number.
    Aaaand, u think bliz servers running on 32 bit? o.O Having 7+ million users, they need to save billions of records for the data. so u can enjoy ur every day game play. If they ran on 32 bit, their server would die by now.

    Welcome to 2013 and 64 bit world, seems like u r lingering on 32 bit for too long!

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Phookah View Post
    You can fix this right now!
    1. Go to Curse.com
    2. Download Mik's Scrolling Battle Text
    3. ????
    4. Profit!

    Mik's adds a "k" on to the end of high damage numbers.
    You're welcome
    Can Mik's Scrolling combat text put the "K" on gear? Having 200,000 int on a belt in a few more expansions is going to get tedious.

  10. #190
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anjan011 View Post
    Aaaand, u think bliz servers running on 32 bit? o.O Having 7+ million users, they need to save billions of records for the data. so u can enjoy ur every day game play. If they ran on 32 bit, their server would die by now.

    Welcome to 2013 and 64 bit world, seems like u r lingering on 32 bit for too long!
    "I like big numbers, so I'm going to force people to spend hundreds of dollars to upgrade their computers just to continue playing."

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Khanis View Post
    Sorry but they're gonna have to sort this out eventually, 13157568421 appearing all over the screen in coming expansions isn't gonna register within the human mind as 'high damage' compared to 13157568.

    How can they fix this?
    why do you even have that crap cluttering your screen?
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by anjan011 View Post
    LOL. sorry about bumping a weeks old thread, but this comment i can't help.

    So, for me to be able to grasp things in a video game, i have to be a master in "mathematics, psychology, science, and computing"

    Since when i needed to be master of these things to enjoy my game?
    He didn't say that at all. He said that people without those skills would have a harder time understanding the squish. He said that the squish is so unpopular because people playing video games generally lack those skills.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Last Starfighter View Post
    Can Mik's Scrolling combat text put the "K" on gear? Having 200,000 int on a belt in a few more expansions is going to get tedious.
    It's usually not a good idea to quote someone that posted 200 posts and almost a month ago.

    Anyway, I suppose I just find all of this funny. "Yeah, 2,453,203 is too long of a number. Let's just call it 2453k."

    "How about just 2453?"

    "NOOOOOOOOOOOO-"

    I'm fairly neutral here, but leaning towards the squish due to simplicity. Even with the abbreviations, it feels better to deal 10 damage out of a 100hp target than 100 million out of a 1 billion hp target (most likely due to, as suggested by this thread, me being a simpleton who can't comprehend big numbers).

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    "I like big numbers, so I'm going to force people to spend hundreds of dollars to upgrade their computers just to continue playing."
    If u havn't already upgraded to 64bit system by now, that's ur choice. Most ppl does many other works aside from gaming. So to make those works simpler they upgrade to better PC. it's logical. if u can't play WoW on ur pc any more its not because of big numbers. My 5 yr old laptop, could handle upto cata just fine. but it was crying loud when MoP hit. u know why? its because the quality of graphical content increased much, which demands more power from ur PC. In sha fights my frame rate dropped to 5. now i have better PC and i can actually enjoy the fluent fights.

    One of the reasons u r supporting squish is it will increase the performance. Well i asked Mr. Processor, and he said 4k or 4B no matter to me, call me when its over 9,223,372,036,854,775,808. And if u have any illusion WoW will be going to get to even 1/100 of that limit in next 10 years, u r living in imaginary world.

    Also, those who says the squish would take resource to implement, i m sure none of u ever worked as a system admin for computer networks. Because it's what u can call "Sha of Nightmare" for any system admin. They wont ever going this way UNLESS, they ABSOLUTELY have to do it. Now consider the vast network system WoW have. its easy for u to say divide all X. You have no idea how tough it will be. Being 8yr+ game, like any other older system, wow has many patch works. smaller of which u know about "hot fix". and patchworks, most likely break after such division. So after squish, if suddenly u logged in and can't access ur bags any more, it will be frustrating like hell.

    Now here is a think i believe every body should understand. If u have a system that is already running fine, and after a drastic change, it is claimed to have same effect, what's the logic of spending time and effort to make the change? Any of u squish supporter couldn't show a logic as to why it NEEDS to be squished and how it will improve the game play for us. Oh i see lot of "Numbers get ridiculous", but that is opinion not a solid logic. Lucky for us, Bliz thinks the same, so squish is not any time soon. Squish wont be there unless it's truley needed, like the entire damage done on a night's run gets critically close to that 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 limit. Then they will have a solid reason and ppl will support them en mass, because they will start noticing the negative effect as well.

    Unless then, i m afraid we have to stick with "Big Numbers" like we r seeing now. And, until we really need squish due to system limitation, i m a hardcore anti-squisher!

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by anjan011 View Post
    Ah i guess i failed to explain better as i was laughing hard i don't think it needs to written explicitly that to do something u need skill, if u want to do it better. Every one gets it eventually, those who doesn't don't advance. U also keep in mind to the context on which the comment was made
    Indeed, I didn't understand sarcasm >.< Sometimes it is hard to see it in such threads as this, when some people are honest about what they write no matter how ridiculous or stupid it would be.
    "I like big numbers, so I'm going to force people to spend hundreds of dollars to upgrade their computers just to continue playing."
    Why do we need to repeat that nonsence said by GC? Mathematical side of combat isn't something which puts most pressure on users' PCs. Neither does it put on servers directly due to "big" numbers.

    32-bit or 64-bit OS/CPU/whatever doesn't matter at all here. EVEN if it mattered... I live in country, where having good PC means you have very good income. The most garbage of PC you can get or find at someone's house - nothing has 32-bit OS (unless it is there due to some software compatibility issues). And "32-bit" CPUs are gone with Pentiums. If someone still uses Pentium as their PC (fantastic, I know), I assure you - he can't play WoW on it altogether...
    Last edited by Ferocity; 2013-08-07 at 05:40 AM.

  16. #196
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anjan011 View Post
    Bliz thinks the same
    Complete fail. I'm not going to bother linking all the Blizz posts again that completely contradict this. You've already demonstrated repeatedly across multiple threads that you don't care what Blizzard has to say.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by lopk View Post
    It's usually not a good idea to quote someone that posted 200 posts and almost a month ago.

    Anyway, I suppose I just find all of this funny. "Yeah, 2,453,203 is too long of a number. Let's just call it 2453k."

    "How about just 2453?"

    "NOOOOOOOOOOOO-"

    I'm fairly neutral here, but leaning towards the squish due to simplicity. Even with the abbreviations, it feels better to deal 10 damage out of a 100hp target than 100 million out of a 1 billion hp target (most likely due to, as suggested by this thread, me being a simpleton who can't comprehend big numbers).
    Why isn't it a good idea? I didn't necro the thread.

  18. #198
    Legendary! Vargur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    "I like big numbers, so I'm going to force people to spend hundreds of dollars to upgrade their computers just to continue playing."
    Game advances, so should your hardware.
    World advances, so should your other electronics.
    Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings.
    To resist the influence of others, knowledge of oneself is most important.


  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    What's to mention about it? People who enjoy old content don't want it to be "fixed" (if ever) if it breaks soloing or small grouping old content. Even if it's only fucked up for a week, that's a week people are paying to NOT do what they like doing because of some unnecessary change to the system. You can't just say "ignore that this will possibly fuck up what you like to do in the game." Sorry, doesn't work that way.
    Except right now loads of people aren't enjoying WoW anymore because of the huge numbers, me included. You can't just ignore those people just because a small group who likes to solo old content. If it takes 1 week to fix soloing old content when the item squish hits, it's well worth it. If you don't think it's worth it, then you're just being selfish and ignorant.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Complete fail. I'm not going to bother linking all the Blizz posts again that completely contradict this. You've already demonstrated repeatedly across multiple threads that you don't care what Blizzard has to say.
    It wasn't addressed to me, but I'd like to ask - what do you believe more? I believe more in what hardware is actually capable of and not to some completely ridiculous myths from other reality.

    As I wrote, the only people who could have technical problems due to "big" numbers, are those who use Pentiums (even then - doubtfully). But you can't run WoW on Pentiums already. And by Pentiums I don't even mean re-branded crappy CPUs with 64-bit support, but those which were considered low-budget crappy CPUs yet 10 years ago and which were direct upgrades to 486.

    What concerns servers, Blizzard upgraded their servers at least once - in 2009, in WotLK. Using those Pentiums as servers in 2009 (I know it would be to laugh) would be much harder than impossible. Simply because those pre-rebranded Pentiums weren't produced anymore. Meanwhile serious server systems had 64-bit processors since 2000.

    I hope it closes all the "big numbers will make my PC explode" issues :)

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