Should LFD have ever been implemented?

[Deleted]

I like the way the lowered queue-times and I like how you don't need a key or attunement for every dungeon.

I dislike the way CC isn't needed.
Doing Karazhan, MgT and other stuff was some of the most fun I had in the game.
So you can imagine I was quite happy when Cata came out and dungeons were a lot harder again.
I loved how GC basically told people to "learn to play" and we all know how well that went.

But do we want to discuss the social aspect/grouping, difficulty or tactics?

First off I'd say difficulty/tactics and social aspect are closely related.
But you're right, it wasn't a question by itself, it was more of an answer to your post.
They did yes change the system after people complained that they were too hard.
Was it an improvement?

[Wyrt]

Traveling to SFK or SM as alliance was awful. LFD was definitely needed.

[Monstercloud]

The Anti-LFD folks seem intent on forcing the "social aspect" as the point, as if social aspect is the positive way to describe social interaction. It's like if I was trying to be nice describing bad food, I'd say, "Well that was edible." and they'd go, "Glad to hear it was good."

[SamR]

And again, despite it being explained in the previous page, the same canned answer is still repeated. How original.

So let's repeat it again : the point of having to group with people was that it added the social aspect in the game. Removing this need to FIND and GROUP WITH people, all replaced with the push of a button, REMOVE the social aspect.
So yeah, we could still group with people we knew. That's not the point. That's actually the problem : no social part in the game anymore.

Though considering how many times this point is explained and it still didn't manage to penetrate the thick skulls of people who don't want to get it, I have no hope that it will have any success this time.

That makes no sense at all. You enjoy grouping with people you know. You are able to group with people you know.

I like being able to jump into random groups with strangers.

Go group with people you know and let me jump into random groups with strangers. Stop trying to tell me what I should be doing and how social I should be.

You've made your argument many times that you want to dictate how I should be playing. Stop worrying about MY playtime not being sufficient social for your tastes and play the game how you want.

[Akka]

Both options are available to you.

No, they are not. The main point that made the first option fun has been removed by the second one. It's been said twenty times and will need twenty thousands more, if ever, but : it's fun to find ways to overcome an obstacle barring your path. It's pointless and not fun to purposedly create an obstacle that did not existed to begin with and ape the first situation.

[SamR]

No, they are not. The main point that made the first option fun has been removed by the second one. It's been said twenty times and will need twenty thousands more, if ever, but : it's fun to find ways to overcome an obstacle barring your path. It's pointless and not fun to purposedly create an obstacle that did not existed to begin with and ape the first situation.

You can still form dungeon groups manually. Hell, you can even do dungeons the old way by flying there and then having to fly back to the city to recruit a replacement.

Knock yourself out. Nobody in this thread is advocating taking that option from you. Stop worrying about how I play my game and play your game the way it's fun for you.

[Akka]

That makes no sense at all. You enjoy grouping with people you know. You are able to group with people you know.

You got it completely backward.
I like to encounter new people in the game, and the problem I pointed is that with LFD, you can hardly do it anymore in a meaningful way.
LFD makes such encounters pointless and void of socialization, because you don't need to communicate to finish the dungeon (lack of difficulty), you don't have to put any effort to start a group (no communication => less socialization, and little incentive to keep the group running as you can just click another button and surf on the Internet meantime).
Having to form a group and hold it together helped to reinforce the social aspect. Not to say that every run was all flowers and rainbows, of course, but it pushed people toward interaction if they wanted to get something done. It meant that you had the occasion to see new faces from your server, to see the same names several times, to know people and remember who was fun and who wasn't.

That's called "community", and that's what LFD killed, and anyone supporting a community-killer in a MMO should certainly wonder if he's playing the game he should.

I like being able to jump into random groups with strangers.[/quote]


Go group with people you know and let me jump into random groups with strangers. Stop trying to tell me what I should be doing and how social I should be.

You've made your argument many times that you want to dictate how I should be playing. Stop worrying about MY playtime not being sufficient social for your tastes and play the game how you want.[/QUOTE]

- - - Updated - - -

You can still form dungeon groups manually. Hell, you can even do dungeons the old way by flying there and then having to fly back to the city to recruit a replacement.

Knock yourself out. Nobody in this thread is advocating taking that option from you. Stop worrying about how I play my game and play your game the way it's fun for you.

Maybe you should actually read a post before answering, because it's obvious you didn't, as it's entire content is precisely explaining what is wrong in your answer.

[Deleted]

If you think emails are too impersonal and letter writing is better, why wouldn't you write letters? There are still stationary stores around which sell cool stationary that people use to write letters. If anything, your letter will be even more well received because so few people go through the effort. Imagine a girl today receiving a well-written love letter on good stationary instead of some half-assed text message. She would be over the moon.

Instead you want to ban emails.

Sounds similar but it's not really quite the case no.
Unfortunately we're stepping into the ethereal field of gaming philosophy. Efficiency must be kept at balance.
But sorry im a bit tired and it's not a discussion I'm willing to take now.

[DeltrusDisc]

This one is a tough one for me, because I had plenty of time back in TBC to sit around looking for groups, but also had a pretty dedicated guild of players who just wanted to run dungeons and enjoy the game.

If anything, I loved the journey of running to the dungeon entrance. Doing that added some depth. I especially loved running to and finding Maraudon, quite the contrary to popular opinion. lol

But yeah, when guildies weren't on, thankfully not too often, LFD would have made life simpler, but I had my ways of occupying myself. I always loved mining and shit, so hey, I could do something else.

All in all, LFD is a good tool, but I miss running to the entrance.

[Drilnos]

No, they are not. The main point that made the first option fun has been removed by the second one. It's been said twenty times and will need twenty thousands more, if ever, but : it's fun to find ways to overcome an obstacle barring your path. It's pointless and not fun to purposedly create an obstacle that did not existed to begin with and ape the first situation.

Removing LFD would constitute the purposeful creation of an obstacle which it would be pointless and not fun to circumnavigate, in the name of aping a situation which is thankfully not around anymore.

[Deleted]

Well, what if there was a possible solution? What if they made non-LFD groups get an extra XP Bonus while in the dungeon? It'd get more levelers out into the world on there way to the instance groups and tone the dungeons to the appropriate difficulty. The leveling time would be essentially the same (depending on the server) but, there would be more of an option when leveling up toons on what to do.

Hey I like this.

[Vargas]

WoW's community was trash before LFD came around; methinks the nostalgia glasses need to come off. From my personal experience it seems that most people who are anti LFD and who pine for the imaginary WoW days where the community was good were players who, for the most part, did dungeons with guildies only.

LFD was needed; spamming for hours to get a group or to find a specific role for your group was NOT fun.

[SamR]

That's called "community", and that's what LFD killed, and anyone supporting a community-killer in a MMO should certainly wonder if he's playing the game he should.

I like LFD/LFR. I'm playing a MMO with LFD/LFR. Ever thought that maybe you're the one who's playing the wrong game?

Maybe you should actually read a post before answering, because it's obvious you didn't, as it's entire content is precisely explaining what is wrong in your answer.

I read your post again. Didn't explain anything. Just talked about how you enjoyed overcoming challenges. That's great. Overcome challenges and do dungeons the old fashioned way. Stop worrying about how I play the game.

[Akka]

Removing LFD would constitute the purposeful creation of an obstacle which it would be pointless and not fun to circumnavigate, in the name of aping a situation which is thankfully not around anymore.

People who find bothersome to communicate with people in the team-based part of a MMO, should really wonder why they are playing both a MMO, and the team-based part in it.

[SamR]

Sounds similar but it's not really quite the case no.

It's a great analogy and I thank you for coming up with it. You don't like email, then write letters. Stop trying to get emails banned so everyone will be forced to write letters.

[Akka]

I read your post again. Didn't explain anything. Just talked about how you enjoyed overcoming challenges. That's great. Overcome challenges and do dungeons the old fashioned way. Stop worrying about how I play the game.

It did explain, but obviously you are either unable or unwilling to get it.

Well, I should have guessed that trying to communicate with people who dislike communication was doomed from the start.

[SamR]

People who find bothersome to communicate with people in the team-based part of a MMO, should really wonder why they are playing both a MMO, and the team-based part in it.

OK, so WoW's not MMO enough for you. Go play a game that fits your idea of MMO better.

[Drilnos]

People who find bothersome to communicate with people in the team-based part of a MMO, should really wonder why they are playing both a MMO, and the team-based part in it.

For someone who says he hates canned responses, you sure do have a lot of them.

Where exactly did I say communication with a team was bothersome? I don't find it bothersome to communicate with a team. What I do find bothersome is to yell "LFM for Steam Vaults, need healer and dps, prefer hunter, pst" for two hours until everyone decides to go their separate ways because I guess it's just not happening tonight, sorry guys.

That, pardon my french, shit, died a most deserved death in Wrath, and I don't ever want to see its undead face again.

[MoanaLisa]

It's against people's nature to actively put themselves in a disadvantageous position. As long as you provide people with a more efficient alternative, people will ALWAYS pick that alternative.

People will only look for groups in trade if it nets them some advantage, like faster queues for DPS when they group with a tank/healer. People won't stop doing LFR until they are given an alternative way to gear up. People won't run to dungeons and bypass the Dungeon Finder tool as long as doing so doesn't reward you Valor Points.

People who are not willing to take the less efficient path and willingly take another path that's quicker should not be complaining about it. It's hypocritical to complain about LFD/LFR while continuing to use it when there is a clear alternative not to do so. If the social aspect of the game is so valuable then they should do everything they can to enhance that at the expense of efficiency. Otherwise, it makes all of this just so much meaningless hot air.

Forced socialization will never work anyway.

Efficiency in the long run isn't exactly a fun stat in a leisure entertainment at any rate. I play to have fun, that's why it's called play. If I have more fun by being less efficient that's fine by me. At any rate, I won't complain about things that I don't have to do.

EDIT: None of this is directed at the poster I quoted. It's simply how I feel about how people should approach the social aspect of the game.

[Racthoh]

if it wasn't for lfd you wouldn't do more than 2 or 3 dungeons during the whole leveling process. and chances are blizz wouldn't have even bothered to update them with cata.