[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[Lethora]

Twins HC for example, I had 2 benchmarks on that fight, first one was to be on 400k dps by the first inferno and 260k by the time the boss was near enrage.

How? I'm barely hitting 180k when bosses die. Are you solo tanking, spamming /sit or what? Because I just can't see how can you push such big numbers. Especially since you raid 10mans, and I do 25H, where bosses hit harder.

Also, I assume your Jin'rokh numbers included you standing in the pools whole time those pools are up? Because I never broke 200k on that fight, but again I was taking 3 out of 4 tank throws and never stood in the pools, since space is very limited in 25M.

[Viriel]

Question regarding council heroic:

Last night we attempted council heroic for the first time. Since our monktank is not available this week we tried a 1 tank strat with our warrior solotanking and 3 healers. This however gave big problems when it came to Marli, our warrior had trouble creating any threat at all on her, so a healer was tanking her most of the tries. halfway through the night I was asked to switch to prot, and got murdered by Marli and Malakk. We 2 healed 2 tanked it from this point since our resto shaman was sick.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/afy4m...?s=7774&e=7866 and onwards from this try.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...laith/advanced

Questions mainly are, how to not get completely murdered while tanking? Is it a lack of healing(tankhealing seemed ok to me with 3 healers) or am I doing something wrong? Was using BH/FW/Alabaster as glyphs, would it be better to glyph DP?(I'm being Marlis nuketarget at all times).

thanks in forward!

[celinamuna]

Question regarding council heroic:

Last night we attempted council heroic for the first time. Since our monktank is not available this week we tried a 1 tank strat with our warrior solotanking and 3 healers. This however gave big problems when it came to Marli, our warrior had trouble creating any threat at all on her, so a healer was tanking her most of the tries. halfway through the night I was asked to switch to prot, and got murdered by Marli and Malakk. We 2 healed 2 tanked it from this point since our resto shaman was sick.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/afy4m...?s=7774&e=7866 and onwards from this try.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...laith/advanced

Questions mainly are, how to not get completely murdered while tanking? Is it a lack of healing(tankhealing seemed ok to me with 3 healers) or am I doing something wrong? Was using BH/FW/Alabaster as glyphs, would it be better to glyph DP?(I'm being Marlis nuketarget at all times).

thanks in forward!

Honestly the healing seems kind of low.
I'm unable to look through all of them, but even looking through death summaries there is a bunch of times when you died w/o taking any healing (or very little) from the outside.

[Nairobi]

How? I'm barely hitting 180k when bosses die. Are you solo tanking, spamming /sit or what? Because I just can't see how can you push such big numbers. Especially since you raid 10mans, and I do 25H, where bosses hit harder.

Also, I assume your Jin'rokh numbers included you standing in the pools whole time those pools are up? Because I never broke 200k on that fight, but again I was taking 3 out of 4 tank throws and never stood in the pools, since space is very limited in 25M.

Yeah I saw those figures and had to scratch my head too. While we don't solo tank specifically, we do max V as much as we can (sans /sit) and get nowhere near those numbers. And yet, we (as guild) rank pretty damn high, even this late in the tier. I usually end up ~200k on twins if I can get good procs and timing. Maybe he pushes past the enrage to try and game V? I didn't think he had HC progress though, since he wasn't (or hand't been) raiding, and considering that 260k is a top 10-15 parse, that'd be damn near impossible without mostly HC gear?

He could be looking at spike events on WOL though, which makes more sense, since I see crazy values like 1.4mil DPS on DA and 900k on JiKun, etc.

Question regarding council heroic:

Questions mainly are, how to not get completely murdered while tanking? Is it a lack of healing(tankhealing seemed ok to me with 3 healers) or am I doing something wrong? Was using BH/FW/Alabaster as glyphs, would it be better to glyph DP?(I'm being Marlis nuketarget at all times).

thanks in forward!

We 2tank/3healed many moons ago when DPS was low and warranted it, but stick to 2/2 now. If you're just starting out, and have the capability (read: roster AND sufficient DPS) to 2/3, I'd suggest that route.

We use myself and BrM for all tanking, since it basically gives a bonus healer, but I'm sure a warrior would do ok as well. Have the Marli tank (should be warrior, IMO, since spell reflect) basically just stack with the rest of the melee/tank and work down Sul. Sul tank (paladin is great for extra interrupts, else monk) should hold Malakk for the most part, until FA ofc. If you want, when FA requires a taunt, have the original Malakk tank grab Marli to even out damage (not something we bothered with, but YMMV).

If you're going to continue tanking (and doing it with a warrior?) by all means do NOT glyph DP. There is so little physical damage in that fight, only from Malakk melee (and it's really only FA that hurts, which is magic anyway!).

Since healing looks light, you could/should try both tanks swapping targets when FA requires a taunt. Should help keep things a bit more stable.

[Riemu2k3]

How? I'm barely hitting 180k when bosses die. Are you solo tanking, spamming /sit or what? Because I just can't see how can you push such big numbers. Especially since you raid 10mans, and I do 25H, where bosses hit harder.

Also, I assume your Jin'rokh numbers included you standing in the pools whole time those pools are up? Because I never broke 200k on that fight, but again I was taking 3 out of 4 tank throws and never stood in the pools, since space is very limited in 25M.

My best parse was 236k back in June (still ranked #55):

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0x6nix892xq7wbsl/sum/damageDone/?s=13903&e=14420#Riemû

I spiked to 600k DPS in the first phase.

My last parse was 228k DPS: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=14242&e=14743

I spiked to about 390k during the first phase

--

So I guess thats what he meant with his numbers? But like Nairobi said, 260k at the enrage, thats pretty much top 10 ranking.
I usually tank 10+ adds (if I dont forget put in the right glyphs...) in p1 and take Suen right in P2 along with all my adds. You can easily achieve 400k DPS without sitting and stuff on Twins HC by the time the first Inferno hits, when you solo Tank P1 and dont cleave down the adds and then Take Suen all the way to the first Inferno and taking 4 stacks / debuffs.

[Deleted]

How? I'm barely hitting 180k when bosses die. Are you solo tanking, spamming /sit or what? Because I just can't see how can you push such big numbers. Especially since you raid 10mans, and I do 25H, where bosses hit harder.

Also, I assume your Jin'rokh numbers included you standing in the pools whole time those pools are up? Because I never broke 200k on that fight, but again I was taking 3 out of 4 tank throws and never stood in the pools, since space is very limited in 25M.

Of course adapt your numbers to the strategies you use. For Jin'rokh, there is not really any reason why you would not stand in pools as a tank full time. Maybe in 25 man if you got a lot of ferals and stuff that needs to be behind the boss, but for 10 man, you should always be in pools as tank.

For twins, we used 2 tanks during progression, regular tank swaps on Suen, that is why I "only" ended on 260k dps, our fight was also very long, since the majority of the damage happens in P1, our kill was almost 10 minutes, if we killed it faster it would have been a lot higher. I did however tank Lu'lin "solo" in the first phase with a warrior tank running around revealing adds. I tank Suen in P3 and the warrior Lu'Lin, so I get "benefitial" vengeane in P1 and P3 compared to warrior tank.
So the other tank was of course not even close to me in damage, that is why you need to adapt your own benchmarks after how you tank the fights, no point competeting with anyone other than yourself.

For twins, what I did, and what I really advise any tank to do, ignore the beasts of nightmare. I specced focused wrath and focused shield. For the t90 talents I played around with Holy Prism, Execution Sentence, Lights Hammer, I think I changed that T90 talent between every pull on progression, could never decide. Ended up sticking with Lights Hammer because the heal was insane during the infernos, but, if the healers had been better (the healers was our weak point and kept us from kills a few pulls than needed), I would probably have gone execution sentence as LH killed the beasts to fast.

So what I did was sit 100% on Suen in P1, only cleaving down beasts with consecration. The first beast died around when the third spawned, this lead to an easy 400k+ dps with 10 man vengeance level, 90% of which was on suen herself, so it really helps the raid a lot. It does not stress your healers at all, my healers never got any corrupted healing stuff because they actually needed to heal me, just some various miss heals.
When the first inferno spawned this meant that I had around 250-350k vengeance, which lead to an insane lights hammer for the first inferno, so if you had problems with only getting 1 comet to hide behind, that LH could easily keep the rad topped anyway. I killed the last beast right when she starts channeling the first inferno.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah I saw those figures and had to scratch my head too. While we don't solo tank specifically, we do max V as much as we can (sans /sit) and get nowhere near those numbers. And yet, we (as guild) rank pretty damn high, even this late in the tier. I usually end up ~200k on twins if I can get good procs and timing. Maybe he pushes past the enrage to try and game V? I didn't think he had HC progress though, since he wasn't (or hand't been) raiding, and considering that 260k is a top 10-15 parse, that'd be damn near impossible without mostly HC gear?

He could be looking at spike events on WOL though, which makes more sense, since I see crazy values like 1.4mil DPS on DA and 900k on JiKun, etc.

Spike events are closer to 850k dps, talking about dps(e) which is at 400k during first inferno after which it drops since that is when I kill off my beasts. So for the rest of the fight the dps is only around 160-220k, which by 9min 30s - 10 min, which is our usual kill times makes the entire fights dps(e) ends up on 260k~ and yes, that is around a top 25 parse, which I am not that thrilled about since I usually have a lot better on most fights, but I have been away to long, a bit rusty and not so many HC kills yet on each boss, others had 10 weeks to rank, so I am getting there. It was done in ilvl 532.

Something that I learned is that ilvl is not really that important when grabbing top parses (obviously as my ilvl has been pretty low in both T14 and T15 playing a lot in F&F guilds / failed attempts at starting up guilds ending in disbands).

I even have a plan to grab the rank 1 now next week if my healers allow it (which they wont).

I barely use sit in this fight, I use it before the first beast spawns, and like once at every beast spawn As it was progression I did not want to game anything during the fire phase at it felt kinda insecure.

You should try not focusing down your beasts instantly and see what happens

[Riemu2k3]

Question regarding council heroic:!

You should not have any problems tanking Marli + Malakk. 528 is about the same we had when we did Council. Since most of your raid should be at like 538+, you should be fine.


We 3-healed it (still do). But 2 healing should be fine I guess. Only real trouble is when you have to heal through 1-2 frostbites early on cause it will drain you dry. After that, healing through Kazrajin's AoE Damage really really hurts. So if you can get away with 3 healing it, its actually alot easier. You just need to have enough DPS to kill Sul before Kazra empowers and youre fine.


As for tanking Marli + Malakk: Try to only tank those 2 when you need to taunt off your warrior for Stacks. He should be decently geared? Use DP for the stacks as most of the damage Malakk does during that period is frost damage. And Marli is nuking you constantly anyways. So you should be fine. If not, pop another cd. You should not die when malakk doesnt stack his frostswings as the incoming damage is not THAT high. If you still die (and you keep up your SS, play with insight etc.) then its your healers fault.


To be fair, 2-healing is kinda hard if youre not used to the fight / you cant immune all frostbites.

[Promdates]

My best parse was 236k back in June (still ranked #55):

For twins, I think my highest parse is 234k, with a spike of 518k. For Jin'Rokh, you can 100% totally sit in the puddles on 25H. We do it every week. If you have another tank (Paladin or monk, don't think warriors/druids/dk's can do it) who can break out of stuns you can alternate the throws. So basically you land on the ground, get stunned, and break the stun pretty close to immediately.

[Riemu2k3]

For twins, what I did, and what I really advise any tank to do, ignore the beasts of nightmare. I specced focused wrath and focused shield. For the t90 talents I played around with Holy Prism, Execution Sentence, Lights Hammer, I think I changed that T90 talent between every pull on progression, could never decide. Ended up sticking with Lights Hammer because the heal was insane during the infernos, but, if the healers had been better (the healers was our weak point and kept us from kills a few pulls than needed), I would probably have gone execution sentence as LH killed the beasts to fast.

Wasn't possible when we did Twins HC / progressed on them (started progressing on them mid may). I tried to have my first beast down by the time the second spawned trying to push as much damage onto the boss as possible. 2 Beasts + 10+ Adds would have gibbed me (actually tried it couple of times). But I guess it shouldn't be any problem at all nowadays. Prolly gonna try to game that next time. Nevertheless - #22 is still impressive so grats :-)


I can only advice for LH on this fight. Usually most of the ranged are more than 30y away from the boss youre tanking in the first phase (at least our ranged are..) so HP heals for almost nothing as your melees are hardly taking any damage. And you can LH on every 2nd Inferno. Which is pretty good!

[Nairobi]

@ FF - What's your actual character name? I probably just overlooked it prior, but I'd be curious to see your logs if that's what you're pulling. I don't really work down the beasts, but I don't really put much effort into fights anymore either. I may build my 4pc and try some things next week though, but we've now lost 2 main raiders ( ) so we're usually 8-9 manning fights or bringing in casuals, which doesn't really behoove ranking/gaming stuff.

@ Reimu - I should have specified, with 2/2 we just burn so fast that we get Malakk phased before 2 FB's go out, and Sul dies in the 2nd empower. But yes, 2/3 is far safer for those still learning the fight. 2/2 can get dicey on Kazra when everyone decides to go HAM...

For twins, I think my highest parse is 234k, with a spike of 518k. For Jin'Rokh, you can 100% totally sit in the puddles on 25H. We do it every week. If you have another tank (Paladin or monk, don't think warriors/druids/dk's can do it) who can break out of stuns you can alternate the throws. So basically you land on the ground, get stunned, and break the stun pretty close to immediately.

DK can IBF if you want to get technical, and can glyph it to get out of 2 stuns if you desire.

Or, you could not be cheating horde scum with your stupid useful racials for DPS, and be a Human and just trinket it.

[Promdates]

DK can IBF if you want to get technical, and can glyph it to get out of 2 stuns if you desire.

Or, you could not be cheating horde scum with your stupid useful racials for DPS, and be a Human and just trinket it.

Forgot about IBF. And Horde Paladins have Tauren and Blood Elf. Neither of which provide a DPS increasing racial :P

[Nairobi]

Wasn't possible when we did Twins HC / progressed on them (started progressing on them mid may). I tried to have my first beast down by the time the second spawned trying to push as much damage onto the boss as possible. 2 Beasts + 10+ Adds would have gibbed me (actually tried it couple of times). But I guess it shouldn't be any problem at all nowadays. Prolly gonna try to game that next time. Nevertheless - #22 is still impressive so grats :-)


I can only advice for LH on this fight. Usually most of the ranged are more than 30y away from the boss youre tanking in the first phase (at least our ranged are..) so HP heals for almost nothing as your melees are hardly taking any damage. And you can LH on every 2nd Inferno. Which is pretty good!

When we were starting progress on this back in April/May (I don't really recall, I just know that we 2 shot it ROFL), we were tank-swapping and leaving beasts up for DPS/Veng. I remember having issues with them despawning/not spawning when doing this. I guess that got fixed, or we just stopped timing it "properly", but we've 1-tanked that phase ever since we saw how much of a joke the fight was.

I still use HPr there (mainly becuase I'm too lazy to change it from JiKun through RaDen), but wouldn't a High-V LH just nuke the adds that you're trying to keep alive? I mean, I guess you could NOT use/cast it, but you'd miss out on 3 casts in phase 1 (or 9 HPr casts), which seems to defeat the point, no?

- - - Updated - - -

Forgot about IBF. And Horde Paladins have Tauren and Blood Elf. Neither of which provide a DPS increasing racial :P

Right, I meant more for the ACTUAL DPS, in being trolls (and to lesser extent/not this tier, Orc/Gob/UD). Horde pala races blow ass both aesthetically and mechanically (IMO), which is why I kicked and screamed to stay Alli this tier

Well, that, and I'm an achiv whore and didn't want to lose progress on some stuff.

[Riemu2k3]

DK can IBF if you want to get technical, and can glyph it to get out of 2 stuns if you desire.

Or, you could not be cheating horde scum with your stupid useful racials for DPS, and be a Human and just trinket it.

DK can also Desecrate Ground it so he can he out of every single Throw if he wants to :-)

Would loooooove to get those imba racials. But.. neither Tauren nor Bloodelves to have anything useful in that regard. Not for DPS anyways ;(

EDIT: Jesus christ how fast are you guys posting

- - - Updated - - -

I still use HPr there (mainly becuase I'm too lazy to change it from JiKun through RaDen), but wouldn't a High-V LH just nuke the adds that you're trying to keep alive? I mean, I guess you could NOT use/cast it, but you'd miss out on 3 casts in phase 1 (or 9 HPr casts), which seems to defeat the point, no?

You can preplan your LH / throw it onto ranged after barrage hits in p1. Not that its really needed since healing / damage taken in p1 is rather low anyways. But yes you're right, you wouldn't wanna throw it onto your adds.

[Promdates]

Right, I meant more for the ACTUAL DPS, in being trolls (and to lesser extent/not this tier, Orc/Gob/UD). Horde pala races blow ass both aesthetically and mechanically (IMO), which is why I kicked and screamed to stay Alli this tier

Well, that, and I'm an achiv whore and didn't want to lose progress on some stuff.

Oh yeah, when blizz did the 50% off character thing... the majority of our dps switched to troll. It was hilarious. I did switch from Tauren to Blood Elf, because BElf just looks better in the CM gear. The Tauren racial is only like 7k hp anyway.

[Deleted]

@ FF - What's your actual character name? I probably just overlooked it prior, but I'd be curious to see your logs if that's what you're pulling. I don't really work down the beasts, but I don't really put much effort into fights anymore either. I may build my 4pc and try some things next week though, but we've now lost 2 main raiders ( ) so we're usually 8-9 manning fights or bringing in casuals, which doesn't really behoove ranking/gaming stuff.

Sent you a PM, bear in mind that I got my meta gem very, very late, and got my cloak last week I did not start the 5.1 quest chain before 5.2

[Promdates]

Don't feel bad, I got my cloak on both of my tanks within the last 2-3 weeks. The wonderful joys of the RNG of only getting Lei Shen runestone for 3+ weeks.

[Riemu2k3]

Oh yeah, when blizz did the 50% off character thing... the majority of our dps switched to troll. It was hilarious. I did switch from Tauren to Blood Elf, because BElf just looks better in the CM gear. The Tauren racial is only like 7k hp anyway.

I actually switched from BE to TA lol.
BE just look seriously gay (the male ones anyway) and I didn't wanna create yet another female char (all my other chars are female because most of the male models just suck on horde).

@ Cloak: Same here. Got mine on my pally like 2 weeks back.

EDIT: 4 days ago.. lol. I thought it was longer ago... fucking hot summer time just flies

[Deleted]

Wasn't possible when we did Twins HC / progressed on them (started progressing on them mid may). I tried to have my first beast down by the time the second spawned trying to push as much damage onto the boss as possible. 2 Beasts + 10+ Adds would have gibbed me (actually tried it couple of times). But I guess it shouldn't be any problem at all nowadays. Prolly gonna try to game that next time. Nevertheless - #22 is still impressive so grats :-)


I can only advice for LH on this fight. Usually most of the ranged are more than 30y away from the boss youre tanking in the first phase (at least our ranged are..) so HP heals for almost nothing as your melees are hardly taking any damage. And you can LH on every 2nd Inferno. Which is pretty good!

Yeah, LH is awesome for the healing on infernos, but my trigger fingers want to drop it on the beasts which kills them too fast = low vengeance

Really, I had no issue staying alive with 3 beasts on me, I guess this is the exact reason why they are nerfing vengeance scaling from adds. Since I could substain myself 100% on the first phase basically.
I just made sure to have the beasts dead by infernos so that our healers would not have corrupted healing + inferno on them.

[Nairobi]

EDIT: Jesus christ how fast are you guys posting

What do you want me to do at the office? Work?

You can preplan your LH / throw it onto ranged after barrage hits in p1. Not that its really needed since healing / damage taken in p1 is rather low anyways. But yes you're right, you wouldn't wanna throw it onto your adds.

Yeah, just seems like a bit of a waste there is all. Plus, I CBA to change talents all that much!

Oh yeah, when blizz did the 50% off character thing... the majority of our dps switched to troll. It was hilarious. I did switch from Tauren to Blood Elf, because BElf just looks better in the CM gear. The Tauren racial is only like 7k hp anyway.

Yeah, but dat stomp! Also, herbalism (luls). I guess BE racials are nice, esp for PVP, but the enchanting thing blows too. Human for life, at least (almost) all of them are useful and/or not wasteful/superfluous.

Sent you a PM, bear in mind that I got my meta gem very, very late, and got my cloak last week I did not start the 5.1 quest chain before 5.2

Yeah I'm not looking to really check details, just curious to see how much accuracy there are to some of your numbers/claims, since a lot of folks like to....exaggerate on the internet. As stated, in farm mode I get really lazy, but then I'll see some monter parse and want to go try hard for a week.

[Deleted]

Yeah I'm not looking to really check details, just curious to see how much accuracy there are to some of your numbers/claims, since a lot of folks like to....exaggerate on the internet. As stated, in farm mode I get really lazy, but then I'll see some monter parse and want to go try hard for a week.

I dont really exaggerate as you can see from the logs. I do stress though that I play as I play and do not really advise people to adapt my playstyle 100%. I only advise people to do as I do when it is 100% benefitial, like keeping a beast or two alive on twins, is awesome, 0 risk, 200k extra vengeance.