Is Mists of Pandaria the greatest PvE expansion ever created?

[Inthislzon]

MoP > TBC > WotLK > Cata > Vanilla

[Boricha]

ICC>Ulduar>MoP>Cata>TBC>The rest of Wotlk for me. I only played for 2 weeks in Vanilla

[Akraen]

In my opinion, this is the worst expansion created.

• Pull-lever-receive-loot style.
• Too many raiding difficulties.
• Too much loot saturation.
• Bad itemization.
• Bad pure class balance (except warlocks).
• Punishing gameplay rather than rewarding gameplay.
• All bosses have the same mechanics: range check, movement.
• Lore that simply doesn't fit into the niche that WoW has always filled.

[shise]

Of course it is not.

TBC is by far the best, specially when you consider that it was the first, without the amount of experience they currently have...

Followed by WotLK, even tho they screwed up with the overall difficulty, it's Lore is probably the best out there.

MoP comes close enough, but it's behind both.

[Gliff]

This is how I rank the tiers (I have been playing since release but I didnt play at all in BC)

1. Ulduar (This tier did not last long enough)
2. ToT (Best most balanced boss they have ever released)
3. ICC (The lore. LK was a great endboss)
4. T14 (The only fault was that one of the 3 worst bosses of the tier happened to be the final boss)
5. T11 (Really buggy on release. Terribly tuned for 10 man)
6. Firelands (Too short. If it was 12 bosses long and more difficult then it could be in my top 3)

The rest were shit.

In my opinion, this is the worst expansion created.

• Pull-lever-receive-loot style.
• Too many raiding difficulties.
• Too much loot saturation.
• Bad itemization.
• Bad pure class balance (except warlocks).
• Punishing gameplay rather than rewarding gameplay.
• All bosses have the same mechanics: range check, movement.
• Lore that simply doesn't fit into the niche that WoW has always filled.

• Pull-lever-receive-loot style. Its been like this since wrath. Epic gear is not epic. Nothing new there
  
• Too many raiding difficulties. How does this effect you? Honestly. I only raid heroic raids so how does LFR and flex and normal effect me in the slightest? You think raiding should only be available to someone that raid at the level that you see fit? Thats not douchey at all...
  
• Too much loot saturation. Please expand on this. I fail to see how this effects your enjoyment.
  
• Bad itemization. Except every class/spec has different definitions of "good itemized items". If everything was perfect for your class then it would be bad for everyone else.
  
• Bad pure class balance (except warlocks). LOL. You pick the one class that has been consistently overpowered at every aspect of the game this expansion as your point for where classes should be balanced? WTF
  
• Punishing gameplay rather than rewarding gameplay. Like what? Because you had to do dailies? Ya, we all agree that the dailies sucked. Anything else? I remember being forced to do dailies in past expansions for my cloak/head enchant also...
  
• All bosses have the same mechanics: range check, movement. Are you new to this game? Every boss mechanic is a recycled mechanic for the most part. Nothing new here.
  
• Lore that simply doesn't fit into the niche that WoW has always filled. So you think they should rez Arthas and Nef and we should keep with the same storylines that had 3 games of lore behind them? They tried something new.

Half the shit you listed is stuff that has been happening for much much longer then just MoP. If you hate those things and you think this is the "worst expansion created" because of them then I am curious how you have stayed with this game.

[Akraen]

Pretty sure I've been playing this game longer than you buddy (after a scan of your feats of strength). Don't let that US #28 go to your head.

Pull-lever-receive-loot style refers to Heroic Scenarios and LFR being offered in addition to valor. What was once a system for catch-up (btw, go check the ilvls of the gear in Shattrath compared to Tier 5 and 6) is now an alternate way to be outgeared for content that players will never see. Timeless Isle is going to offer, due to some bad itemization, a grind requirement for heroic progression. Maybe this doesn't matters to warriors, I don't know, but it does matter to frost mages.

Loot saturation is an extension of the above point. There's just too much of it out there and with upgrades it is probably very confusing what to get and when for casual players. This obviously isn't a problem for me but I see it as being a problem for people unsure if they're going to have coin luck or should use/upgrade an item they get from a Heroic Scenario.

You clearly lack any understanding of the mage class. I won't explain it to you, because as a warrior you won't get it. However, high numbers != quality of life. I'd love to trade the top spot to not feel penalized everytime I have to, oh you know, interrupt my evocation, move without casting, recast a rune of power, or whatever whenever a mechanic happens. Our numbers are high, but our happiness isn't, and that's not just me speaking. I'm the one conducting a huge, multi-forum mage feedback session right now with the assistance of two MVPs and contact with the devs.

Punishing gameplay refers to two key things: Inside raids, things like mage L90 talents punish you if you don't maintain the upkeep buff rather than feeling like a reward for having used an ability properly. Outside raids, and applicable to everyone, is the feeling that you are punished and left behind if you do not valor cap for a week, or if you bench yourself to allow a trial to prove himself and miss a thunderforged heroic drop that you've been waiting for. Get that yet? Oh right, when you're US #28th you had no problem farming all that out already.

They did try something new, and some of it worked while some of it didn't. Because people didn't have the ooo-aaahh emotional attachment to anything in MoP, it resulted in them being more critical of the gameplay itself, resulting in the most criticisms of development I've ever seen (and as I said above, I've been around and involved all the way back to 2005). So no, don't rez Arthas and Nefarian-- but Azeroth is not Earth, and it's a pretty risky (and really racist) move to add Little Asia to the mix. Blah blah that could be a whole thread, and it has been, many times-- you might have enjoyed it but many did not. Personally, I felt no attachment to it whatsoever. I began having fun again once I got to do stuff in the Barrens this patch.

And finally, Gliff-- I'm sure you're an incredible player. Evidence supports it. I bet if we actually knew one another we'd find a lot of common ground. However, a lot of the frustrations in this expansion simply don't apply to you. I'm at 11/13H 25M, and that's a world away from your slot at US#28. Be proud of that, your upfront work saved you a lot of recruitment nightmare. Or maybe it didn't, look at vodka/Exodus.

[Gliff]

I seriously doubt you have been playing longer then me since I played on the first round of public closed beta for Vanilla, but what does that even matter? Since you have been around that long then you should know that half the stuff that pisses you off has been happening for years now.

Inside raids, things like mage L90 talents punish you if you don't maintain the upkeep buff rather than feeling like a reward for having used an ability properly

Do you know how dumb that sounds. Your reward is the fact that you do higher DPS then if you didnt do it. What else do you want?

Where did I mention my progression anywhere in there or your progression? "Don't let that US #28 go to your head"? Wow. Ya I'm done.

[Goretex]

Reading through the responses in this thread, I more readily understand why WoW has lost half of it's maximum subscriber base. The culture Blizzard has created with the "give everyone everything with minimal effort" has essentially ruined the meaning, motivation and overall experience of the game. Do you really think an xpack is "better" because it is "more accessible?" That's like saying "Honda Civics are better than BMWs or Porsches because they're more accessible." The argument doesn't make sense because that's not how the real world works. Greater access devalues a product. It's economics 101.

TBC was definitely the best WoW xpack because it was actually a game that challenged the player base - and that challenge is important. After all, climbing Everest means something. Walking outside to fetch the mail - that's your definition of a "challenge" if you believe MoP or Cata is tops.

WoW is a game it's suppose to be fun, it's not real life. And I'm sure no one wants it to be like real life, I know I don't. I hated being a week into LK and just raiding BT because of elitist pricks and RL things I had to deal with at the time.

LK>MoP>Cata>TBC>CLAssic

[Deleted]

MoP is worse than Cata, much worse than both Wrath and BC.

I liked BC best because it provided a lot of meaningful content to do, aswell as a lot of challenge and a greater sense of community than any other expansion (Though Wrath had this too in spades via pug raiding).

I liked Wrath because even though there was less outside of end-game to do with your main, the accessibility and multiple progression paths meant I could (for the first time) maintain a bunch of alts and enjoy different playstyles at an end-game level.

Cata was less enjoyable, but still good; the initial difficulty of the heroic dungeons was a welcome change though they slowly shifted into an AoE spamfest and pushing people into the same rotations of just 2-3 dungeons in the later patches in order to keep your alts updated. The shared lockout and higher difficulty normal modes initially meant less pugs than in Wrath though, so keeping alts up to date was harder. However, it did have Firelands and Heroic Ragnaros is one of my favourite boss fights to date even if I did have to dim my monitor as much as possible to prevent eye-rape from all dat orange on 3 hour attempt nights.

MoP, for me, has way too much "fluff" content - content that doesn't provide any meaningful progression, but is simply there to pad the features list. Dailies tied to raiding, pet battles, the utterly pointless heroic 5mans etc all fall into this - it's basically all just busy work while you wait for your raid cooldowns to reset... I also hated the levelling experience; far too linear and repetitive - no zone choice apart from KrW vs VotFW and pugs being non-existent on my server because at this point, at least 70% of the raiding guilds have left so there is no-one good to group with. MoP also destroyed people's willingness to level alts - the levelling grind was too long (-30% now, lol) and linear, as I mentioned. They also initially gated EVERYTHING behind shit-arse dailies. The ilvl requirement on everything also is a pain in the arse. Why shouldn't I be able to join a heroic with 400 if my whole group is guild-mates? Why must I waste time PvPing or grinding scenarios? Just ridiculous.

MoP is also the only expansion I have unsubscribed from several times (usually after my guild kills whatever we can be bothered with until we're bored). I have never been bored of raiding before... Something about the whole lore, aesthetic and mechanics is just very "meh" to me.

[cityguy193]

no
/10char

[Iceman2500]

Raid content wise, I felt MoP did a much better job than Cataclysm. Unfortunately, the raiding is the only thing I really like about this expansion; the lore just doesn't grab my attention and in fact feels like a filler TV season that serves no real purpose. Azshara is still out there, the Burning Legion and Sargeras are still out there, why did we have to waste our time in Pandaria?

[Deleted]

Do you know how dumb that sounds. Your reward is the fact that you do higher DPS then if you didnt do it. What else do you want?

It doesn't sound that dumb, and as a Paladin I can understand what he means.

Look at something like Inquisition; it doesn't feel "awesome" or rewarding to push it. It's just something you have to do or the game punishes you by putting your DPS way below someone who doesn't even have to worry about one of those buffs. It's just a chore that is put in place of an actual complex rotation. Busy work. Chores. Blizzard clearly feels the same way considering they are *doubling* the duration of it next patch.

Anyway, let's not derail this thread with that. It's not a problem specific to MoP.

[SinisterAsc]

it's the worst pve expansion...the best was Cata by far.

not sure if trolling

[Linkedblade]

Not even close.

Not even remotely close.

Doesn't stand a chance when put up against TBC content.

Yeah, because the encounters don't even compare. I think over time encounters have gotten better. The Garrosh fight seems underwhelming, but there have been so many bosses, mechanics seem almost overused. It's a double edged sword really. New can be interesting and fun, or confusing and painful.

[Hecz]

The boss fights themselves are really fun and innovative. I'm more of a story guy, though, so I still prefer Wrath. TBC and Ulduar were when I still had the wonder-factor with WoW raids. I wonder how someone just starting in MoP feels about Throne.

[restling]

sorry but No! :P

[Gondlem]

MoP is the best expansion since TBC in my opinion, by quite a distance. TBC was still my favourite overall, I think the raiding model was a bit better then, you couldn't really class stack as much because of buff coverage requirements, you didn't get over-exposed to the fights from multiple difficulty settings etc, and classes were a bit more varied in their roles, but MoP is very close and in terms of fight design and mechanics it's the best (and hardest!) expansion. The only content since TBC that matches it is Ulduar. If SoO lives up to the standard set by ToT or goes close it could easily be better than TBC as a complete package from a raiding-only PoV.

[Floopa]

MoP is the best expansion since TBC in my opinion, by quite a distance. TBC was still my favourite overall, I think the raiding model was a bit better then, you couldn't really class stack as much because of buff coverage requirements, you didn't get over-exposed to the fights from multiple difficulty settings etc, and classes were a bit more varied in their roles, but MoP is very close and in terms of fight design and mechanics it's the best (and hardest!) expansion. The only content since TBC that matches it is Ulduar.

Are you serious? Class stacking existed in TBC... It was called Shaman, Hunters and Warlocks.

[Outofmana]

[*]Bad pure class balance (except warlocks). LOL. You pick the one class that has been consistently overpowered at every aspect of the game this expansion as your point for where classes should be balanced? WTF

L2read, it's the balance within the class aka between the specs, not in regards to other classes. I figured you were about to spout BS the moment I saw you were going to try refute EVERY point he made, this always includes "disproving" some points with total bullcrap because you know, everything you quoted must be wrong so you're gonna say something regardless of truth.

That said, TBC was miles better, PvE wise, which also includes interesting Lore. I also don't get why someone on the first page said Magtheridon required insane class stacking, did you even progress on him? TBC kept getting more and more interesting tbh, you were really looking forward to the next raid WHILE still enjoying the current one.
Who here actually wants to set a foot into ToT anymore? Imo one of the most bland huge instances ever made devoid of any wow-atmosphere. Bosses aren't all that memorable because almost all of them have nothing to do with Lei-shen and are just thrown randomly in there, like turtles, beast-heads, a snail, a bird . really -_-. Which is how this expansion feels for me, way too random because they just lack a proper backstory. Heroic modes are not the only PvE aspect and I'd say not one of the most important ones. The most important one is the atmosphere in the raidinstances, no matter which difficulty and this is were MoP really drops the ball.

(If you want another example, they made this awesome HoF design, made us quest thru all the dread wastes with the Klaxxi, huge quests with epic questline ending, we go in to kill Empress, Empress dies and all we get is "haha lol come see me in terrace kthxbye" from the Sha. No Roleplay, no klaxxi thanking you, no cool cutscene, nothing. This killed that instance for me.)

[muto]

Wrath was awful, Naxx, ToGC and to a lesser extent icc were pretty lame imo

Ulduar alone makes up for it all, and Naxx was fun.