Does the theme of an expansion matter in terms of success?

[DeathbyFrostBomb73]

Maybe if Chen had been around a lot more during the other expansions, MOP would've gone a lot better.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

or the fact that arthas fight was horrible for all the hype and DS was just atrocious in every regard. It had nothing to do with the "characters" but they were both handled horribly like typical sat morning cartoon villains

So why didn't more players quit during ICC?

Clearly they must have been willing to look past what you call a bad fight because it was Arthas, the "best" villain in all of Warcraft.

[Stormspellz]

Wtf are you even talking about? Arthas is considered by many to be one of the best fights in game. Thunder King is considered to be up there with the Lich king as well. MoP may not have the best boss in all of wow, but it has been the most solid raiding xpac to date. A lot of good encounters, and few bad ones.

from a lore point the LK sucked, no windrunner, bronzebeard, and the players are saved by the paladin remembering he has bubble, mechanically the fight was a good encounter, lore wise it sucked.

[drwelfare]

The theme didnt motivate me to come back, I did try my free week, but didn't like the feel of it and let my free days run out

[Stormspellz]

So why didn't more players quit during ICC?

Clearly they must have been willing to look past what you call a bad fight because it was Arthas, the "best" villain in all of Warcraft.

a lot of people did quit. at that was a game that wasn't almost 9 years old at that point.

[Ceece]

How much does the theme of an expansion contribute to the success or failure of the expansion? Lets say that MoP would have been about a fan favorite area like Argus or the emerald dream. Every thing else was the same. Would it have turned out any differently?

The theme of an expansion is very important, especially WoW being mostly player verse environment orientated. I'm sure the subscription losses would have been smaller, and I'm sure things would have turned out differently.

[frumper]

Wtf are you even talking about? Arthas is considered by many to be one of the best fights in game. Thunder King is considered to be up there with the Lich king as well. MoP may not have the best boss in all of wow, but it has been the most solid raiding xpac to date. A lot of good encounters, and few bad ones.

The mechanics in MoP are good, but who are the bosses and how do they relate to the world? There was a disconect to me on why we were killing them. Of course there are always filler bosses, but MoP felt like all filler bosses.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

A theme to anything is pretty important. I don't think it bakes the whole cake but important? Yes.

[Jokubas]

Whats wrong with the asian theme? Can someone explain this to me why people are ok with norse, egyptian, african etc but asian doesnt cut it? Why?

Some people seem to have... issues, to put it nicely. I can tell you, however, that I wanted Pandaren since Warcraft III and have no problem with an Asian theme, yet was still disappointed with Mists of Pandaria. I went into more detail on another thread, but I think it has something to do with the fact that Pandaria is treated as so... out of place, in universe. It has been isolated for 10,000 years, but it doesn't explain why the Pandaren story doesn't seem to really interact with the rest of Azeroth's stories very well. It doesn't explain why the Wandering Isle Pandaren are also oblivious to the world, to the point where some of them would join Garrosh's Horde. Their anti-war message seems like it's from a different story, because it's immediately trashed when the Alliance isn't fighting because they like fighting, they're fighting because Garrosh will kill them if they don't (and post 5.1, this applies to most of the Horde as well). I think they did some neat stuff with Mists of Pandaria, but it isn't integrated into the story well, the theme is just an easy scapegoat for people.

[Kaleredar]

So why didn't more players quit during ICC?

On top of the fact that non-raiding people geared through the normal frozen halls dungeons AND heroic frozen halls before they'd even think about ICC... I think a large part of it was the fact that PuGs started to grow more and more frequent as the months stretched on, allowing more and more people access to ICC... Everyone knew Arthas and wanted to down him, and ICC could take quite a while to get through. That, and you had the ever-present things like badge grinds, weekly raid quests, wintergrasp, and all of those things that Cataclysm (and indeed MoP) lacked. Hopefully flex raiding and the Timeless isle will provide people with enough to do.

[Sand Person]

yes

10char

[Kaleredar]

The mechanics in MoP are good, but who are the bosses and how do they relate to the world? There was a disconect to me on why we were killing them. Of course there are always filler bosses, but MoP felt like all filler bosses.

It was the exact same way with BC and Vanilla, and even true throughout parts of ICC. Who the hell was Mogrim tidewalker? Or Magmodar? Or Princess Huhuran? Or Sacrolash and Alythess? And then, more importantly... why the hell were we fighting Illidan? Or Zul'jin?

[Mgann-Morzz]

Whats wrong with the asian theme? Can someone explain this to me why people are ok with norse, egyptian, african etc but asian doesnt cut it? Why?

I really don't know, I don't understand how people can feel that an asian theme fits less than the crazy sci-fi crystal spaceships of Burning Crusade.

Honestly I think its just that the DARKNEDGY freaks have taken over everything and they just hate anything that isn't covered in grimness and blood.

[frumper]

It was the exact same way with BC and Vanilla, and even true throughout parts of ICC. Who the hell was Mogrim tidewalker? Or Magmodar? Or Princess Huhuran? Or Sacrolash and Alythess? And then, more importantly... why the hell were we fighting Illidan? Or Zul'jin?

If not the names of the bosses, I remember fighting elementals, dragons, and such in the world. The raids paralleled the quests and dungeons. MoP they just feel like linear paths to get loot.

MC had BRD, BWL had LBRS/UBRS, ZG had the support of the northern STV and has grown throughout wow in various quests, zones, dungeons, raids.

I enjoyed fighting the leader of the naga that I leveled up through, or fought in the dungeons under the lake. The Blood Elves were a central part of BC which had a lot of tie ins with TK and Sunwell. BT was supported by the zone with quests. BC told the reasons and stories through the Attunement chains as well.

WotLK had us dealing with Freya and or Storm Giants, or Titans. ToC had a multilayered event focusing on the tournament. ICC...well the LK was everywhere. Cata did a good job in incorporating DW, but the stories fell flat to me.

MoP....The mantid, and the sha. There is story there, but once again it feels flat. There are no iconic characters for me. The bosses don't seem to stand for anything, they're just corrupted.

[Kaleredar]

If not the names of the bosses, I remember fighting elementals, dragons, and such in the world. The raids paralleled the quests and dungeons. MoP they just feel like linear paths to get loot.

MC had BRD, BWL had LBRS/UBRS, ZG had the support of the northern STV and has grown throughout wow in various quests, zones, dungeons, raids.

I enjoyed fighting the leader of the naga that I leveled up through, or fought in the dungeons under the lake. The Blood Elves were a central part of BC which had a lot of tie ins with TK and Sunwell. BT was supported by the zone with quests. BC told the reasons and stories through the Attunement chains as well.

We were never even given a good reason as to WHY the naga were doing what they were doing. Ultimately, Tempest Keep was just somewhere to fight Kael'thas, with the blood elves messing around in the other wings because... why not. Black temple was NEVER supported by quests... in fact, Illidan was very poorly handled in BC. Hell, they never even said why we were supposed to be fighting Zul'jin. The only reason? Phat lewts.

WotLK had us dealing with Freya and or Storm Giants, or Titans. ToC had a multilayered event focusing on the tournament. ICC...well the LK was everywhere. Cata did a good job in incorporating DW, but the stories fell flat to me.

MoP....The mantid, and the sha. There is story there, but once again it feels flat. There are no iconic characters for me. The bosses don't seem to stand for anything, they're just corrupted.

The Mogu were established all throughout Pandaria, as were the Zandalari. They used Quilen as guardians, like the first boss, have had a long line of kings as established in Lore (spirit kings,) while they control titanic machinery that reveals their past (Engine of Nalak'sha and Will of the emperor.) The Mantid in HoF are all servants of the Queen, who was corrupted by the Sha of fear. The first boss of Heart of fear appears in the mantid rep chain, Mantid are associated with Kunchong, a la garalon, and all the trash mobs are named after the various Mantid breeds and the Kypari trees they belong to. The Terrace of endless spring features the Jinyu, long built up as the watchers of Pandaria's waters, along with the water sprites, like Lei Shi. Tsulong is the protector who is fighting his corruption at the hands of the Sha of fear.

They're done in the exact same formula as all the past bosses and raids.

[Gimlix]

Yes it does, I know alot of people who won't play WoW even if MoP would be the best expansion ever made, because of the theme.
They will be back at next expansion, but not in MoP. ;/

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

It was the exact same way with BC and Vanilla, and even true throughout parts of ICC. Who the hell was Mogrim tidewalker? Or Magmodar? Or Princess Huhuran? Or Sacrolash and Alythess? And then, more importantly... why the hell were we fighting Illidan? Or Zul'jin?

Exactly. You have to establish a sense of "why" as much as you do a sense of "epic."

Blizz has nailed the latter for years, but stumbles consistently on the former.

[Kaleredar]

Exactly. You have to establish a sense of "why" as much as you do a sense of "epic."

Blizz has nailed the latter for years, but stumbles consistently on the former.

I think the advent now is that people have started to care more about bosses having "previous lore..." I mean, if you look at the old raids, more often than not only the final bosses had any lore behind them. And in the case of some raids (like Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj,) none of them had any.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

No. Not at all.

If you think it does, stop lying to yourself. You didn't quit because of the theme, you quit because you were bored of the game. And if the theme was different, you would have quit after a few weeks anyway.

[Chickat]

You're of a small minority that thought the Arthas fight was done "poorly." The flow of it, the mechanics... THAT'S the way that a final boss should be. Deathwing was just "rinse and repeat" the entire fight. The entire time you were fighting Arthas, shit was getting progressively out of hand until he straight up owns you with a snap of his fingers.



"I'M HIDING TILL YOU LEAVE!"

Why is that? Cant take something that isn't your own opinion?