Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Cloche]

I honestly don't seem them making any more big changes, i'll prob eat those words, but I don't see many changes coming now that we are less than two weeks away from the patch release.

[Deleted]

Hastes value for affliction will still be fairly high due to the fact that faster channels = more instant dot ticks which will be still be very strong due to the higher base dot damage on top of the fact that it gets buffed by the mastery. It will be similar to how it was in T14 before RPPM trinkets and meta gems were introduced.

also due to GoSac will be utter crap in 5.4 and GoSup's pets will scale quite well from the haste. its basically the same situation as when 5.2 was released. i think that a 4-6k difference between mastery and haste will be optimal.

[Bonkura]

affli stats are gonna go back to what they were before haste boosting rppm. haste and mastery scaling synergistically with us maintaining our mastery while grabbing more dot ticks. I still rock my 9778 haste -> mastery build since beginning of the tier though. 8k unreforged crit ftw.

[Deleted]

Sooo patch in days and no Destru love ?

/sad Warlock

[Deleted]

im definately going to try and reach the 18207 haste break point for afflic and then see if i cant get 12-15k mastery. currently sitting at the 13737 haste breakpoint with 8,4k mastery, so it isnt impossible to reach those numbers.

[TheBGreene]

affli stats are gonna go back to what they were before haste boosting rppm. haste and mastery scaling synergistically with us maintaining our mastery while grabbing more dot ticks. I still rock my 9778 haste -> mastery build since beginning of the tier though. 8k unreforged crit ftw.

While I will probably still push haste, this seems logical as well, especially if demo is the preferred spec for some fights. Allows the swapping of the two specs better IMO even if I see some swear by haste for demo.

[Cebel]

im definately going to try and reach the 18207 haste break point for afflic and then see if i cant get 12-15k mastery. currently sitting at the 13737 haste breakpoint with 8,4k mastery, so it isnt impossible to reach those numbers.

actually it is impossible to reach those numbers while not losing dps due to the gemming.... Compare this tiers gem sockets to next tier and you'll clearly see why.

[TheBGreene]

actually it is impossible to reach those numbers while not losing dps due to the gemming.... Compare this tiers gem sockets to next tier and you'll clearly see why.

IIRC there is quite a bit of red yeah?

It is possible but like you said, what you give up to attain it is its downfall. There are a decent number of haste pieces and being affliction really doesn't need 2 or 4pc it makes it even more possible.

With that said, going off of what we currently know with numbers and gear, 13787 then stacking mastery seems the most logical. This could obv all change with one nerf/buff

[Deleted]

You really don't have that much choice, the best gear is always haste/mastery, haste/hit or mastery/hit (except MH, 1 crit piece). That makes the reforges obvious, so the only place you can get ''extra'' haste is to gem it.

With heroic (not TF) BiS, you have ~13k haste and ~11k mastery and then another 3300 you can add to which you want from gems. The only way to get significantly more is to run bad trinkets just for the passive stats on them. Or you could not get hit cap, which is also terrible.

[Cebel]

IIRC there is quite a bit of red yeah?

It is possible but like you said, what you give up to attain it is its downfall. There are a decent number of haste pieces and being affliction really doesn't need 2 or 4pc it makes it even more possible.

With that said, going off of what we currently know with numbers and gear, 13787 then stacking mastery seems the most logical. This could obv all change with one nerf/buff

with full heroic BIS ( Non thunderforged ), and going for dps gain socket bonuses, and hit cap, and going for an "ideal" reforge, i got to 15.1k haste, and 16.6k mastery. Thats 2pc tier, and then all haste/mastery offpieces, only 2 items with crit ( legendary cloak, and main hand weapon ).

Edit: heres a link to my bis list ( granted its a bit outdated since they nerfed the actual numbers provided by the trinkets ( i did change the % value on bindings, but yea cant be arsed to math out what our 2nd trinket will be because breath is still prob better than all of them lolz ). https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2eXVVRVE#gid=0

So yeah, def the 13787 then mastery, granted thats using the garrosh trinket, which after the nerfs to trinkets across the board im not so sure i want to use regardless ( in which case you need to find other sources of haste to hit that break point ( the only other source is gems and/or reforging out of mastery. )

[Cloche]

Seems like their are a lot of theories flying around huh lol

[Woz]

Hastes value for affliction will still be fairly high due to the fact that faster channels = more instant dot ticks which will be still be very strong due to the higher base dot damage on top of the fact that it gets buffed by the mastery. It will be similar to how it was in T14 before RPPM trinkets and meta gems were introduced.

In b4 non-hit cap makes a comeback.
Not saying it will for sure happen but I can sense it with more of our damage shifting back to DoTs like it was in T14. What a debate that will spark up again, can't wait....

[Deleted]

with full heroic BIS ( Non thunderforged ), and going for dps gain socket bonuses, and hit cap, and going for an "ideal" reforge, i got to 14.1k haste, and 15.5k mastery. Thats 2pc tier, and then all haste/mastery offpieces, only 2 items with crit ( legendary cloak, and main hand weapon ).

Edit: heres a link to my bis list ( granted its a bit outdated since they nerfed the actual numbers provided by the trinkets ( i did change the % value on bindings, but yea cant be arsed to math out what our 2nd trinket will be because breath is still prob better than all of them lolz ). https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2eXVVRVE#gid=0

So yeah, def the 13787 then mastery, granted thats using the garrosh trinket, which after the nerfs to trinkets across the board im not so sure i want to use regardless ( in which case you need to find other sources of haste to hit that break point ( the only other source is gems and/or reforging out of mastery. )

Unless I am missing something obvious, your spreadsheet is missing Bindings in the sums. It only goes to 20th row?

- - - Updated - - -

In b4 non-hit cap makes a comeback.
Not saying it will for sure happen but I can sense it with more of our damage shifting back to DoTs like it was in T14. What a debate that will spark up again, can't wait....

Huh might actually be that way, I wish we had a decent sim

Actually on second thought, we will be able to get maybe 1000 under the cap max, and at that point it's nothing but an annoyance.

[Cebel]

Unless I am missing something obvious, your spreadsheet is missing Bindings in the sums. It only goes to 20th row?

you missed it. Its in row 21 ( i put it there to make it easier to right the formula to calculate the gains ( since it benefits from gems as well ).

[Deleted]

you missed it. Its in row 21 ( i put it there to make it easier to right the formula to calculate the gains ( since it benefits from gems as well ).

Yes but it's not included in the sum in row 23?

[sasofrass]

with full heroic BIS ( Non thunderforged ), and going for dps gain socket bonuses, and hit cap, and going for an "ideal" reforge, i got to 15.1k haste, and 16.6k mastery. Thats 2pc tier, and then all haste/mastery offpieces, only 2 items with crit ( legendary cloak, and main hand weapon ).

Edit: heres a link to my bis list ( granted its a bit outdated since they nerfed the actual numbers provided by the trinkets ( i did change the % value on bindings, but yea cant be arsed to math out what our 2nd trinket will be because breath is still prob better than all of them lolz ). https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2eXVVRVE#gid=0

So yeah, def the 13787 then mastery, granted thats using the garrosh trinket, which after the nerfs to trinkets across the board im not so sure i want to use regardless ( in which case you need to find other sources of haste to hit that break point ( the only other source is gems and/or reforging out of mastery. )

What about the Kardis' Toxic Totem? The black blood was changed so you only gain one stack every second for 10 seconds and then it's gone. It's like a quicker wush but lasts half as long.

KTT does a lot of damage with the multistrike and grants 13,274 int for 10 seconds on a 0.92 RPPM. (i have not done math for either trinkets )

[Rayaleith]

Any similar spreadsheet for Demo?

[Deleted]

What about the Kardis' Toxic Totem? The black blood was changed so you only gain one stack every second for 10 seconds and then it's gone. It's like a quicker wush but lasts half as long.

KTT does a lot of damage with the multistrike and grants 13,274 int for 10 seconds on a 0.92 RPPM. (i have not done math for either trinkets )

Wushoolay got changed to 10s too, getting a stack every second.

Honestly Wushoolay HC TF 2/2 is amazing, especially for affliction. It stacks 17,150 intellect total, with 1,21 RPPM. That means the expected time between procs is 50s. The only downside is the static hit, we might have too much of it.

Black Blood doesn't seem worth it at all. It's almost the same as Wushoolay, only with haste instead of hit. However, it has 0,92 RPPM, about 31,5% less than Wushoolay. I think that will make it worse, considering how much we benefit from procs. Additionally it drops off Garrosh, so you can't get a heroic version for any kind of progress.

KTT looks like the best new trinket to me. The passive is solid and about equal to the others, Bindings being a bit better and BBoY a bit worse (cleave trinket is situational obviously). 0,92 RPPM means you will get about 76% more procs than with 115s ICD, which more than makes up for the shorter proc if you consider snapshotting.

Bindings has the best passive, but I think low proc rate will not favor us (talking affliction mostly). A 20s proc is just not that much better than a 10s proc.

As it is now, I will stick with Wushoolay for all progress. Second slot would be KTT > Bindings > Breath.

[Deleted]

actually it is impossible to reach those numbers while not losing dps due to the gemming.... Compare this tiers gem sockets to next tier and you'll clearly see why.

that depends mainly on stat value tho. i can see that mastery's value will go up a bit but i cant really see it overtake haste atm especially when you factor in that everything we do scales with haste, something that cant be said about mastery.

yeah, i get your point, too many red sockets is generally bad when you want to primarily stack secondary stats since they come from yellow sockets. problem is, you'd loose dps no matter how you gem tho, int/mastery gems isnt going to be as good as pure mastery gems if mastery is your best stat and the same goes for haste as i said earlier, it comes down to stat values which we cant really say anything about until some proper theorycrafting have been done, so until then it will mainly be based on opinions and not facts.

[Grizelda]

Hmmm they doubled the value of secondary stat gems because everyone just took primary stat gems. Blizzard doesn't like group think.

Now that everyone at a certain level stacks secondary stat gems, I wonder if they will herd everyone back to primary stats again. (Yellow gems are too popular! Everyone was taking them!)