Alliance players have a right to be angry with MoP

[Flutterguy]

5.4 is hinging on the SoO cinematics, especially the ending one.

Speaking of which do we know if SoO has cinematics like the dragon soul ones leading up to the Madness fight? If so I assume they're nyi.

I imagine there will be minor cutscenes for the regular raid which will be skipped for LFR.

[Yarathir]

5.4 is hinging on the SoO cinematics, especially the ending one.

Speaking of which do we know if SoO has cinematics like the dragon soul ones leading up to the Madness fight? If so I assume they're nyi.

I would assume so. If half-assed Dragon Soul had "cinematics", then I'd be surprised if Siege of Orgrimmar did not. And either they're NYI, or no one can access them yet. It was the same case with Dragon Soul cinematics, wasn't it? They were first seen on patch 4.3 release day.. in-game, because the map that held the cinematic could not be accessed.

[josykay]

I think Lord of the Clans is actually one of the better Warcraft novels.

Maybe. Since we didn't have any overpowered super mary sues, like Rhonin, Me'dan and those strange dragon guys. Yes! I am talking to you Krasus and Kalec! Oh, not to mention that time traveling nonsense during WotA... But important story telling outside the game(s) sucks. It just was confusing, if you didn't read those comics, when suddenly Varian was sitting in his throne room, people never know without reading the novels, how Thrall became Warchief and what happened to Doomhammer and so on... Or to stick to more recent events:
Most Allies don't know, that in fact they won in Ashenvale, but continue to cry for losing it.

[Florena]

Maybe. Since we didn't have any overpowered super mary sues, like Rhonin, Me'dan and those strange dragon guys. Yes! I am talking to you Krasus and Kalec! Oh, not to mention that time traveling nonsense during WotA... But important story telling outside the game(s) sucks. It just was confusing, if you didn't read those comics, when suddenly Varian was sitting in his throne room, people never know without reading the novels, how Thrall became Warchief and what happened to Doomhammer and so on... Or to stick to more recent events:
Most Allies don't know, that in fact they won in Ashenvale, but continue to cry for losing it.

So far as I can tell the in game Cata ashenvale store takes place after Wolfheart.

[Deleted]

almost facepalmed myself to death reading this post....

[Deleted]

After all the bitching about the Purge alliance side, I just can't with this constant alliance whining.

You don't want compelling storylines, you want to be flawless, bastions of virtue. You don't want to do anything morally questionable (thing we are forced to do every fucking day hoping it will get better) because you want to be the heroes, you want to be the better ones.

Screw that, keep y'all whining if you want. There's no way of making you guys happy, so then just keep being misserable.

Although I do present my most sincere condolences on Tyrande's character assassination.

Lol. Go play Alliance, and you will see we are already wise, and virtuous, and pure... and boring as all fuck!

I would have loved Jaina to do something really fucked up after Theramore, and I'd have loved to help her do it.

What did we do instead? Port into Dalaran, kill a fucking merchant, then watch her cry to our super-wise and all-knowing (as of 5.1) "High King". FUCK.THAT. What happened to wiping out entire cities of women and children using a tsunami? Oh that's right, her all-knowing and pure hearted loverboy talked her down...

I don't want to be the virtuous guy in 5.4 who will help the Horde depose their insane leader, only to have our oh-so-wise King tell me that we shouldn't punish the rest of the Horde, and will pull back to let them rebuild. I want to turn around at the last minute and stab them in the back - repeatedly. I want my King to finally get his moment of revenge for all the fucked up shit the Horde made him do as a prisoner, and everything they've done since.

But no, Blizzard has decided all the characters of the Alliance shall henceforth be wimps, and never plot or scheme or backstab. Even Moira is now a paragon of virtue apparently after the Blood in the Snow garbage.

People complained about the Dalaran purge not because it was morally objectionable, but because it was absolutely fucking pathetic. Jaina is supposed to be this mad bad bitch, but all she really did was have us kill some fleeing wimps, then get scolded by the King of all that is true and good, after which her rage dissipated almost as quickly as it had appeared. Now she's back to being a passive, emo-whiny cunt. Fantastic.

[Aquamonkey]

Exploiting a civil war is smart, but not when both sides of that civil war are your enemies. And believe me when I say the Horde after Garrosh still will be an enemy of the Alliance.

WTF should we believe you? The Horde and Alliance had a treaty before Garrosh took charge. The BElves were moments away from joining the Alliance. The Tauren warned about the attack on Theramore and the Alliance had no problem with helping them with their internal problems or brokering a peaceful resolution in Ashenvale with them. The Trolls warned the Alliance about the Zandalari uprising, started this rebellion, and begged the Alliance for help. Thrall is supposedly coming back and he just helped save the planet again for everyone. Goblins were only in it because it was good for business.

The only ones who are really enemies of the Alliance are the Forsaken and whatever's left of the Warsong clan.

[Austilias]

The issue with WoW lore is that every Horde victory, whether in Cata or MoP, was against the actual Alliance (Theramore/Hillsbrad/Gilneas/etc)

The Alliance's victories? The Alliance's 'fist-pumping' moments? They are not against the actual Horde, but big bad Garrosh and his big bad followers, or, in the case of Dalaran/Theramore, a few 'rebels' who have still not been apprehended.

Not only that, but Alliance victories are not shown in-game either; Dalaran is still a completely neutral city, however much we might 'own' in lore. Theramore however? Take a trip to Dustwallow and behold the crater that stands as a testament to a Horde victory.

Frankly i've given up on Blizzard not being biased on this stuff. Not only that, but one shouldn't have any hope to begin with given that we have Metzen at the reins;

[josykay]

The Alliance's victories? The Alliance's 'fist-pumping' moments? They are not against the actual Horde, but big bad Garrosh and his big bad followers, or, in the case of Dalaran, a few 'rebels' who have still not been apprehended.

Just like the Horde's victories are not victories of the "acutal" Horde. They are Garroshs victories, if you look, how he archieved them: Using other races as worthless cannon fodder, assasinates the other races advicers, because they consider his "victories" dishonorable... I mean even the forsaken officer refused, to celebrate Garroshs "glorious" victory at Theramore. Not to mention all those nonorcs, who got to die because of his plans. Then he betrayed the Bloodelves, especially the Sunreavers multiple times... Garrosh archieved nothing for the Horde. All victories were for himself.

[Aquamonkey]

Firsly, Alliance lost Theramore beforehand, and in the previous expansion lost every meaningfull battle.

Second, you are confusing the Hordes. The Alliance invade the Evil Horde's capital and kill the Evil Horde warchief, while helping the Goody Hordes get their city back and put their Goody Warchief on the throne. (or whatever a Warchief sits on)

And the funniest thing here is the Alliance can just watch as the Goody Horde gets destroyed by the Evil Horde with casualties on both sides, and then attack the remains of the Evil horde. Makes much more sense that way.

WTF is so hard to understand about combining forces being a better plan than attacking separately?

Why didn't the Horde just watch as the Alliance gets destroyed by the Scourge with casualties on both sides, and then attack the remains of the Scourge? Because combining forces and attacking together is more effective.

Why didn't the Horde just watch as the Alliance gets destroyed by the Legion with casualties on both sides, and then attack the remains of the Legion? Because combining forces and attacking together is more effective.

Why didn't each human kingdom just watch as the other kingdoms got destroyed by the Horde with casualties on both sides, and then attack the remains of the Horde? Because combining forces and attacking together is more effective.

Why didn't each of the human tribes just watch as the other tribes got destroyed by the trolls with casualties on both sides, and then attack the remains of the trolls? Because combining forces and attacking together is more effective.

Why not just let each race attack the future Legion invasion one at a time and get destroyed while causing casualties on both sides, then the next race attacks the remains of the Legion? Because combining forces and attacking together is more effective.


Maybe this RL example will show you how teaming up is better. 1 Japanese honeybee attacking a Japanese giant hornet gets crushed. Even if they send a bunch of them one at a time and the hornet eventually gets tired and dies, tons of honeybees will have died too. But if the honeybees team up, they can overwhelm the hornet and very few honeybees will die. Likewise, if the hornet scout gets away and signals the rest of its nest, that teamup will destroy the honeybees. Ever hear the expression "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts"?

WTF do you think cooperative behavior evolved in animals in the first place? Each individual animal is driven by it's own survival/reproductive imperative. But by cooperating with others, they increase their own success. And this works between different species. Just look at dogs and humans. Long ago, some humans and some dogs learned that helping each other was better than hunting separately/each other.

[Deleted]

It basically boils down to the fact that nether Metzen or Kosack are capable of delivering a compelling storyline. It's just piss poor no matter what side you play on.
Of course when hordecom happens metzen will appear once again wearing a alliance shirt. As quite frankly it's really getting annoying having to pray at the fucking altar of green jesus all the damn time =/. Coz that's where it seems to be heading .... again.

In all seriousness I really do hope someone has the balls to call metzen out during the q & a at blizzcon and ask about alliance.

[Yriel]

Just like the Horde's victories are not victories of the "acutal" Horde. They are Garroshs victories, if you look, how he archieved them: Using other races as worthless cannon fodder, assasinates the other races advicers, because they consider his "victories" dishonorable... I mean even the forsaken officer refused, to celebrate Garroshs "glorious" victory at Theramore. Not to mention all those nonorcs, who got to die because of his plans. Then he betrayed the Bloodelves, especially the Sunreavers multiple times... Garrosh archieved nothing for the Horde. All victories were for himself.

I agree. I don't see so many Horde victories in MoP. Bombing Theramore, stealing the bell, almost killing Anduin, desecrating the vale, trying to resurrect an old god... I don't think many Horde player/Horde races actually liked that, that's all Garrosh stuff.

[Glorious Leader]

Like I said in the other thread about this same topic the BEST part about being a horde is having an opponent with such massive inferiority complex that even when they do well it's still a constant battle to feel better about themselves.

[Deleted]

I play Alliance and I feel sort of bad for the Horde players.
You have to kill one of the best NPC questgivers that this game had. You quested with Nazgrim through WotLK, Cata, and MoP. Feels sort of bad to kill him off after all that time spent together.

[Arcanist]

Stop saying that SoO is some great thing for the Alliance. It's not.

Not only is it incredibly contrived, it's also written in such a way as to embarrass and humiliate the Alliance as much as possible, while still maintaining the appearance of a "win".

[Deleted]

WTF is so hard to understand about combining forces being a better plan than attacking separately?

Why didn't the Horde just watch as the Alliance gets destroyed by the Scourge with casualties on both sides, and then attack the remains of the Scourge? Because combining forces and attacking together is more effective.

Why didn't the Horde just watch as the Alliance gets destroyed by the Legion with casualties on both sides, and then attack the remains of the Legion? Because combining forces and attacking together is more effective.

Why didn't each human kingdom just watch as the other kingdoms got destroyed by the Horde with casualties on both sides, and then attack the remains of the Horde? Because combining forces and attacking together is more effective.

Why didn't each of the human tribes just watch as the other tribes got destroyed by the trolls with casualties on both sides, and then attack the remains of the trolls? Because combining forces and attacking together is more effective.

Why not just let each race attack the future Legion invasion one at a time and get destroyed while causing casualties on both sides, then the next race attacks the remains of the Legion? Because combining forces and attacking together is more effective.


Maybe this RL example will show you how teaming up is better. 1 Japanese honeybee attacking a Japanese giant hornet gets crushed. Even if they send a bunch of them one at a time and the hornet eventually gets tired and dies, tons of honeybees will have died too. But if the honeybees team up, they can overwhelm the hornet and very few honeybees will die. Likewise, if the hornet scout gets away and signals the rest of its nest, that teamup will destroy the honeybees. Ever hear the expression "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts"?

WTF do you think cooperative behavior evolved in animals in the first place? Each individual animal is driven by it's own survival/reproductive imperative. But by cooperating with others, they increase their own success. And this works between different species. Just look at dogs and humans. Long ago, some humans and some dogs learned that helping each other was better than hunting separately/each other.

The legion and the scourge and all other stuff actually posed a threat to everyone, the Evil horde will just turn on the rebels first and THEN it might attack the Alliance. In wich case the alliance, with good timing, can strike just after one of the hordes has obliterated the other and is trying to stabilize. In the meantime, while they wait, they will ammass forces for swift and decisive strike. After that both hordes are done and alliance can live in peace.


Ofcouse that wont happen, cause lol game. But It makes the story seem bad.

[bufferunderrun]

Stop saying that SoO is some great thing for the Alliance. It's not.

Not only is it incredibly contrived, it's also written in such a way as to embarrass and humiliate the Alliance as much as possible, while still maintaining the appearance of a "win".

it is a fanservice plain and simple, blizzard could have put garrosh and the raid in the titan vault under the vale in pandaria without involving orgrimmar, and let the horde players liberating it in a separate quest chain or scenario with vol'jin and thrall; you should be extremely gratefull that blizz decided to let you raid the horde capital.

[Csnyder]

dont fool yourself, horde has a lot of whiny babies too

[Deleted]

Stop saying that SoO is some great thing for the Alliance. It's not.

Not only is it incredibly contrived, it's also written in such a way as to embarrass and humiliate the Alliance as much as possible, while still maintaining the appearance of a "win".

Apparently Alliance players should be - at least according to MMO-champ's vocal Hordie minority - thankful that WoW's developement team ALLOWED their Alliance-aligned toons to participate in this raid. Case in point - numerous posts arguing that Alliance has no business there and their presence is completely out of place and degrading to the players of other faction - plus additonal arguments about Blizzard forcing Alliance players where they shouldn't have been allowed.

Case in point:

it is a fanservice plain and simple, blizzard could have put garrosh and the raid in the titan vault under the vale in pandaria without involving orgrimmar, and let the horde players liberating it in a separate quest chain or scenario with vol'jin and thrall; you should be extremely gratefull that blizz decided to let you raid the horde capital.

...and it has been posted while I was readying myself to type this post.

Personally, a sole fact that they get to help dispose of a tyrant that is a threat to every non-orcish race [go read "Blank Scroll" on official WoW pages. It is more widely accessible than Christie's drivel.] would have been enough for me... if it wasn't for the fact that WoW developement team has no idea how to lift Alliance and its leaders [with the possible exception of Mekkatorque] from the bottomless pits of generic, dull, cliched 'goodie' fantasy factions. From Alliance side, SoO looks like a spark of fun that lingers at the end of an atrociously dull, a month+ or-so long, textureless meal.

[Florena]

The legion and the scourge and all other stuff actually posed a threat to everyone, the Evil horde will just turn on the rebels first and THEN it might attack the Alliance. In wich case the alliance, with good timing, can strike just after one of the hordes has obliterated the other and is trying to stabilize. In the meantime, while they wait, they will ammass forces for swift and decisive strike. After that both hordes are done and alliance can live in peace.


Ofcouse that wont happen, cause lol game. But It makes the story seem bad.

Or Garrosh obliterates horde rebels without alliance support and then turns his new sha super weapons on the Alliance.