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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by El Plastico View Post
    No we can't, because it's not ridiculous It's the best measurement we have.
    But that most mean all free to play games are totally shit quality then since they don´t have subs.

  2. #382
    Mechagnome Rixarius's Avatar
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    TBC was good, but so is MoP. And as far as raiding goes, MoP has the best raid content to date. The reason so many people adore TBC is because that's when the game was still new, and of course nostalgia.

    There is nothing that TBC did better than MoP, it was just a different time.
    I'm just here to complain, if I'm being honest

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Awwww, that's cute... WoW is not my favourite game, I didn't do favourites - too many great things in this world. Besides, I'm not defending anything but the concept of logic and reason and common sense. And nope, it still only measures popularity.
    Let's pretend that popularity has absolutely nothing to do with quality.

  4. #384
    Immortal SL1200's Avatar
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    It's pretty black and white to me. When you make a bad game people don't buy it, or they stop their subscriptions, or they come to the forums to complain. All those people who came back for mop because they wanted to play wow again (12-13 million at launch?) and were giving it another chance didn't leave because MOP was so awesome they couldn't stand it.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    But that most mean all free to play games are totally shit quality then since they don´t have subs.
    It's not the only factor but you can keep acting stupid, pretending like you don't understand.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Rixark View Post
    TBC was good, but so is MoP. And as far as raiding goes, MoP has the best raid content to date. The reason so many people adore TBC is because that's when the game was still new, and of course nostalgia.

    There is nothing that TBC did better than MoP, it was just a different time.
    That's BS.

    The lore in TBC raids was fantastic. But more importantly, raiding made you feel like a special snowflake. Which is a good thing. I had tons of casual friends that were wiping in Karazhan while I was going for a top 10 worlwide kill of Kil Jaeden. The people wiping in Karazhan had loads of fun, because they had their own goals. While the people in my guild put in a lot of time, which resulted in pride and bragging rights. That part is gone completely. In MoP you killed a harder version of a boss everyone had seen die multiple times, nobody cares that you have a slightly recolored tier set.

    Wrath already diminished the sense of accomplishment from raiding by splitting normal and heroic modes. Cataclysm killed it off even further with LFR. And MoP continued that.

  7. #387
    The Lightbringer imabanana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blizzardnonentertainment View Post
    The majority of people who played since tbc or earlier agree that TBC was the golden era of WoW.
    Vast majority of players I know from that era (and myself) consider TBC the worst of 2nd worst expansion after cataclysm. I really hope they never try to do something like this again.

  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    Let's pretend that popularity has absolutely nothing to do with quality.
    It doesn't, you know. I refer to Justin Beiber or whatever popular music artist or entertainment icon who are almost universally denigrated. Quality is subjective, sales are objective and they have as much in common as I do with Barack Obama ( not a great deal).

  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    Let's pretend that popularity has absolutely nothing to do with quality.
    Again - by that logic, McDonalds is the best food, Justin Bieber the best music and Apple the best electronics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Plastico View Post
    It's pretty black and white to me. When you make a bad game people don't buy it, or they stop their subscriptions, or they come to the forums to complain. All those people who came back for mop because they wanted to play wow again (12-13 million at launch?) and were giving it another chance didn't leave because MOP was so awesome they couldn't stand it.
    Nothing is black and white. Nothing. If you think it is, that's just pathetic really and you should grow up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    It doesn't, you know. I refer to Justin Beiber or whatever popular music artist or entertainment icon who are almost universally denigrated. Quality is subjective, sales are objective and they have as much in common as I do with Barack Obama ( not a great deal).
    Oh thank fuck, I'm not alone anymore....

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  10. #390
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    Mop is slightly less horrible than cataclysm. Still a craptastic xpack thoug.

    BC was by far the best one. wotlk a mixed bag

  11. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Plastico View Post
    It's pretty black and white to me. When you make a bad game people don't buy it, or they stop their subscriptions, or they come to the forums to complain. All those people who came back for mop because they wanted to play wow again (12-13 million at launch?) and were giving it another chance didn't leave because MOP was so awesome they couldn't stand it.
    And that kind of thinking doesn't work because at its core, it's the same game it's ever been, expansions being content added on. We're not comparing apples to oranges.

    And the people who come to the forums to complain, and I guara-damn-tee it are a vast minority because most people are stable enough to just, ya know, stop playing a game when they're tired of it instead of spending hours and hours ranting against it like it was some kinda ex that dumped them at Dairy Queen.

  12. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Again - by that logic, McDonalds is the best food, Justin Bieber the best music and Apple the best electronics.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Nothing is black and white. Nothing. If you think it is, that's just pathetic really and you should grow up.

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    Oh thank fuck, I'm not alone anymore....
    We can disagree about mop without you having to make personal attacks. I let you get away with it earlier but really you should stop.

  13. #393
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nichodemus View Post
    TBC is and will forever be the best expansion, it was played out well when it comes to the lore, raids was epic and PVP as baaaaaalanced woo!
    PVP was balanced? Is that supposed to be funny? Unless you consider resto druids with 3 buttons and SL/SL warlocks balanced, then yeah.
    Oh, and throw in HARP rogues, if only for a short while.
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  14. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Plastico View Post
    No we can't, because it's not ridiculous It's the best measurement we have.
    Then you have no decent measure and you should stop trying to use one that's not fit for what you're using it for.

    When I stop playing and probably unsub in 10 weeks time, will it be because I don't like 5.4 or will it be that I just don't have time what with the baby and everything?

    In your head -1 sub = game is bad, but to the people who have the data my reason will read much like most of the people who unsub (I'll find this blue post from a few weeks back...actually I'm not going to bother, they said it, I read it and even if I find it some chucklehead will say "blizzard lies" so I can't be arsed) "I don't have the time"

    Sub numbers at the level that we see them mean so little it's actually funny, but not as funny as watching people try and twist and turn them into something deeper.
    Last edited by mmocd3e258d247; 2013-08-19 at 10:14 AM. Reason: can't be arsed

  15. #395
    The majority of people who played since tbc or earlier agree that TBC was the golden era of WoW.
    No they don't.

  16. #396
    The Lightbringer imabanana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farora View Post
    The lore in TBC raids was fantastic. But more importantly, raiding made you feel like a special snowflake. Which is a good thing. I had tons of casual friends that were wiping in Karazhan while I was going for a top 10 worlwide kill of Kil Jaeden. The people wiping in Karazhan had loads of fun, because they had their own goals. While the people in my guild put in a lot of time, which resulted in pride and bragging rights. That part is gone completely. In MoP you killed a harder version of a boss everyone had seen die multiple times, nobody cares that you have a slightly recolored tier set.
    I never cared at all about your "top 10 worldwide kill" or about the fancy gear you had in this time either (or about your "special snowflake"'s "bragging rights", thanks for making me laugh), I don't really see any difference now. Except the fact that casual people can now have fun in different places instead of staying in the same raid for a whole year seeing less than 10% of available raid content, which was definitely the worst part of TBC.


    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    What does it then say about people like you who still stick around for 6 years..since the "mixed bag of WotLK"? I never really understood this thinking. Why would you literally pay hundreds of bucks for sth you don't enjoy. For something "horrible" in fact?
    I guess it's their new way of having "special snowflake"'s "bragging rights", they clearly know what's best for you, you missed the whole fun of the game by not wiping for months against the same few bosses.
    Last edited by imabanana; 2013-08-19 at 10:15 AM.

  17. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Plastico View Post
    We can disagree about mop without you having to make personal attacks. I let you get away with it earlier but really you should stop.
    There was no personal attack here. It was simply a "if you..." scenario, which doesn't mean a thing honestly. However if it *did*, then that only means that I might have a point...

    Besides... Nice try there, trying to avoid the arguments and going straight into self-defense mode...
    Last edited by Venziir; 2013-08-19 at 10:16 AM.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  18. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    What does it then say about people like you who still stick around for 6 years..since the "mixed bag of WotLK"? I never really understood this thinking. Why would you literally pay hundreds of bucks for sth you don't enjoy. For something "horrible" in fact?
    yes i still enjoy rated pvp and farming the auction house for tons of gold. those things didnt change much. Although I hardly played wotlk/cata and mop, like 1/5 of their lifespan each

  19. #399
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I suspect quite a few of the asshole hypocrite developers regret that implementation immensely...
    Why is that? It was certainly a nice addition at least for weapons. Because, for instance, I was in BT when 2.4 hit and still got stuck with the Karazhan mace because there was 1 other upgrade available which of course never dropped. And the following was on Illidan (which dropped when I already got the mace from Twins). So yeah, 2.4 gear helped me quite a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crableg View Post
    The reason everyone loved TBC so much was because they didn't know any better, it was the first expansion, and it improved on alot of the Vanilla issues.
    Also, Outland was frankly amazing especially when flying, at least in my opinion. WOTLK was too, but Outland felt much more otherworldly (because, well, it was indeed another world )
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  20. #400
    The Lightbringer Seriss's Avatar
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    BC was awesome at the time, and I as well as many others loved it.

    But that doesn't change the fact that I'd probably tear my hair out if a new expansion proved to be BC-style-revisited. Today is not the time anymore for BC-style kind of play. And I mean that in every way imaginable, from attunement quest chains (which I loved at the time despite them being a huge hassle for guilds), to player poaching, to guilds forever stuck in Karazhan or at the most T5 due to geared players saying bye to join a T6-guild that would attune them, to excessive class stacking that we have rarely seen again in such excess (grant me some leeway with arcane mages on spine and druids on Nef, okay? ^^). BC was a golden era only at the time it happened. Today, BC isn't so golden anymore. What you mistake as golden is that pinkish tinge caused by those funny engineering goggles that you're wearing.

    And yes, Blizzard is capable of making good expansions. They've proven to be several times already. Nothing will ever make everyone happy; nothing will ever be perfect for everyone because people are so diverse and different in their interests and opinions. But good? Yes, they've all been good, despite the weaknesses and kinks that needed to be ironed out.

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