1. #3821
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    warrior and add stuff
    Yeah, warriors are very strong now, it's something I mentioned back when the ptr first went up.

    As far as add tanking goes, yeah... you really don't want to tank as much as you can, and try to split up the adds so you can try to maximize the vengeance you gain.

  2. #3822
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    The new 1/n vengeance scaling for mobs is just retarded. It would be fine if they didnt design add fights, but they do.
    Agree, they just twisted too many knobs at once. Can't ever gauge the effectiveness of changes if you don't keep enough constants...

    - - - Updated - - -

    On an unrelated note, I'm now a bit torn about going for t16 early to try and abuse the 4pc train. I mean, it's quite well itemized (compared to previous attempts), but I fear that the set bonus and/or HW interaction is going to get gutted, leaving me with a "meh" set of gear that could have gone to someone else instead...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  3. #3823
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Agree, they just twisted too many knobs at once. Can't ever gauge the effectiveness of changes if you don't keep enough constants...

    - - - Updated - - -

    On an unrelated note, I'm now a bit torn about going for t16 early to try and abuse the 4pc train. I mean, it's quite well itemized (compared to previous attempts), but I fear that the set bonus and/or HW interaction is going to get gutted, leaving me with a "meh" set of gear that could have gone to someone else instead...
    Same here... pushing for early 4p cripples the other classes with strong boni (do they have one? not been paying attention) and in the end it probably isn't worth it if they nerf the bonus in week 3.

    Has this "feature" been reported already on the PTR forums? Or is blizzard "not aware" of the issue? Tbh I rather have the set bonus changed before 5.4 goes live rather than in week 2 or 3. Some sort of statement would be nice...
    RL, GM and DK Tank for Guild redacted, EU-Gorgonnash
    Chars: Blood DK / Prot Paladin

    Battle Tag: Riemu#2789

  4. #3824
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    Has this "feature" been reported already on the PTR forums? Or is blizzard "not aware" of the issue? Tbh I rather have the set bonus changed before 5.4 goes live rather than in week 2 or 3. Some sort of statement would be nice...
    Reported several times on PTR.

  5. #3825
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Reported several times on PTR.
    I guess one can only hope and wait then.
    RL, GM and DK Tank for Guild redacted, EU-Gorgonnash
    Chars: Blood DK / Prot Paladin

    Battle Tag: Riemu#2789

  6. #3826
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    I guess one can only hope and wait then.
    Considering I reported it the first time the same day they released this version of the set bonus, I would not hold your breath.

    Maybe now that it is more wide spread they will actually do something about it, I do not know.

  7. #3827
    You'd think they'd have someone assigned specifically to look out for ways to nerf ProtPal's by now...wonder how this one snuck under the radar?

    Probably the same intern who's working on making the tank legendary cloak proc. Zzzz.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  8. #3828
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    You'd think they'd have someone assigned specifically to look out for ways to nerf ProtPal's by now...wonder how this one snuck under the radar?

    Probably the same intern who's working on making the tank legendary cloak proc. Zzzz.
    Isn't it like holiday season right now... ? :-)
    RL, GM and DK Tank for Guild redacted, EU-Gorgonnash
    Chars: Blood DK / Prot Paladin

    Battle Tag: Riemu#2789

  9. #3829
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    I tanked 3-4 mobs most of the time + took alot of damage, really alot of damage at times - and my vengeance just never climbed past 50-70k. Mostly because nothing that counts as aoe / ground or whatever damage gives you vengeance anymore and those mobs don't give you enough vengeance due to the 1/n? diminishing return thingy. You really need to make sure to split the adds right down in the middle now in order to maximize vengeance / damage.

    Anybody else notice that?
    I said this the very day the change appeared in the notes/datamined notes/some blog/wherever. I'm just too lazy to search for my post now. no one seemed to care back then.

    "the only thing that will happen with this is tanks trying to pull as LESS as mobs as possible. if it is possible, you better do single pulls. + the change of standing in shit gets you no vengeance will screw aoe tanking even more." not betting anything on the exact wording though.

    it sucks that it turns out that I was somewhat right with that.
    Additionally to this, paladins used to be the kings of aoe tanking (hyjal anyone? but well, it was supported there even more because they were undead), but nowadays (even on live), paladins are quite low already. Brewmaster AoE is just beyond reasoning, DK is also very, very strong, even Druids are pulling a lot more. I have a ~470 guardian and a ~490 brewmaster, and with both it is EASIER to do MORE aoe dmg than with my ~530 paladin. I don't ask to pull ridiculous numbers, but a little equality at least in terms of dmg and snap aoe threat (even more important in my opinion) would be fair, wouldn't it?
    Last edited by xebtria; 2013-08-19 at 03:50 PM.

  10. #3830
    I tanked 3-4 mobs most of the time + took alot of damage, really alot of damage at times - and my vengeance just never climbed past 50-70k. Mostly because nothing that counts as aoe / ground or whatever damage gives you vengeance anymore and those mobs don't give you enough vengeance due to the 1/n? diminishing return thingy. You really need to make sure to split the adds right down in the middle now in order to maximize vengeance / damage.
    I expect a veritable army of hotfixes next tier to address these dramatic changes they've been making...

    On an unrelated note, I'm now a bit torn about going for t16 early to try and abuse the 4pc train. I mean, it's quite well itemized (compared to previous attempts), but I fear that the set bonus and/or HW interaction is going to get gutted, leaving me with a "meh" set of gear that could have gone to someone else instead...
    We have about 10 people on my token (3 paladins, 3 priests, 4 warlocks), most of them DPS. DPS benefit from tier more than a tank does, imo, so I'll be passing on tier for quite a while...I doubt I'll get a token, even with 25m loot, until like November.

  11. #3831
    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria View Post
    Additionally to this, paladins used to be the kings of aoe tanking (hyjal anyone?)
    I remember getting to 102.4% and then stacking spell power to do more threat/damage. Our scaling was very stupid the way it was done back then. Having 1k spell power was a huge boost to threat/damage for us.

  12. #3832
    Deleted
    I hope we are getting buffed in the aoe-tps/dps department. I feel fine when it comes to singletarget, but HoTR and Cons feel just so weak....
    Beside that, I don't think they leave deep wounds as it is now. It's just too good imo.

  13. #3833
    Deleted
    I would honestly want them to make consecration to scale with haste. Either that you can have multiple consecrations up at the same time so that they do not overlap, or that more haste increases the tick speed. This would solve our AE issues.

    Now that would of course mean a single target dps increase, so some slight nerf in some other spell could make it balanced so we dont grow out of control in single target, though I wonder if that is even needed. If consecration scaled with haste, we would still not be the best single target dps tanks.

  14. #3834
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I would honestly want them to make consecration to scale with haste. Either that you can have multiple consecrations up at the same time so that they do not overlap, or that more haste increases the tick speed. This would solve our AE issues.

    Now that would of course mean a single target dps increase, so some slight nerf in some other spell could make it balanced so we dont grow out of control in single target, though I wonder if that is even needed. If consecration scaled with haste, we would still not be the best single target dps tanks.
    To be fair - I hardly use Cons in Single Target. I'm at 49% Haste and depending on GC proccs, there just aren't any GCD available. I can only use like every 3rd Cons anyway. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong, dunno.

    But I guess it would pull ahead of holy wrath then in the priority... so it would be used more often?
    RL, GM and DK Tank for Guild redacted, EU-Gorgonnash
    Chars: Blood DK / Prot Paladin

    Battle Tag: Riemu#2789

  15. #3835
    Deleted
    It would be used more often if it scaled, yes . GCDs available depend on fights and stuff, and if you are using hprism or not. Either way it would give you the option to delay CS in favor of Cons for more dps.

  16. #3836
    I'm not sure if this has been answered yet, but how long is the T16 2P HoT?

  17. #3837
    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    I'm not sure if this has been answered yet, but how long is the T16 2P HoT?
    10 seconds. Says so on the tier set bonus description

  18. #3838
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    10 seconds. Says so on the tier set bonus description
    Does it? It just says, "While Divine Protection is active, 75% of the damage taken is converted into a heal over time that activates when Divine Protection fades." Am I looking at an older version?

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/itemset=1188/...iumph#comments

  19. #3839
    I'd be very happy in cons's ticks scaled with haste, but base duration stayed the same.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    Does it? It just says, "While Divine Protection is active, 75% of the damage taken is converted into a heal over time that activates when Divine Protection fades." Am I looking at an older version?

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/itemset=1188/...iumph#comments
    and it is 10 sec, just tested on ptr

    albeit to be fair it you can only get it from :
    http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=144581

  20. #3840
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    To be fair - I hardly use Cons in Single Target. I'm at 49% Haste and depending on GC proccs, there just aren't any GCD available. I can only use like every 3rd Cons anyway. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong, dunno.

    But I guess it would pull ahead of holy wrath then in the priority... so it would be used more often?
    Haste shortens your GCDs as well, so your level of haste shouldn't really impact your available GCDs. That having been said, you're right that the GCDs often just aren't there to keep Cons up continually. I get that ticks get overwritten with enough Haste but single target I rarely get to cast Cons often enough for this to be a problem.

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