2013 NBA Season News and Discussion

[icedwarrior]

Well. I've been thinking. And I don't know why people are placing Rockets so high in playoffs lol. Sure, they're good, but the way people talk about them being so amazing that they're like the 3rd most likely team to win championship. I respectfully disagree.

I agree. I really don't see what everyone sees in the Rockets. Don't get me wrong, surely they're going to be a good team, but that great? Eh, I'm not sold just yet. There's a bunch of other teams I see above them, and I see Howard being a liability at times, especially during late game situations.

In fact, here's a list of teams I think are more likely to win a championship than Houston:
-Heat
-Indiana
-Bulls
-Nets
-LAC
-Spurs

Is that in order, Blue? Just curious.

[Blueobelisk]

No, not in that order. Order is a different matter altogether.

Btw I forgot to include Golden State on that list.

Order of the likelihood this team will win the championship:
1. Miami Heat
2. Los Angeles Clippers
3. Golden State Warriors
4. Indiana Pacers
5. San Antonio Spurs
6. Brooklyn Nets
7. Chicago Bulls

Factors:
-How likely is this team going to make it out of their conference/beat the teams in their conference?
-How young is the team (can they play a lot of minutes and survive regular season)? How many superstars do they have?
-How well did they do last year? Key additions?

Notes on team #:
1. Returning champions. I can see them getting knocked out in East semifinals pretty easily, but just as equally they can dominate.*
2. New coach who will take their talent deeper into playoffs, great additions I think. Young and talented.
3. Young, this team can drop points like crazy if you aren't careful. Consistency is questionable for four 7-game series.
4. Added some decent pieces, young stars will mature more, return of Granger. Did well last year.
5. They got old, but their system/coach is unrivaled. Did well last time and it'd be stupid to bet against them, although I think they won't do as well.
6. So many superstars built for playoffs. New coach is questionable but he seems smart. Only question is their chemistry and injuries.
7. Rose is coming back but to be honest, I'm not gonna let you tell me "Bulls were semifinals last year + rose = at least finals this year." It doesn't work like that. Who is to say the chemistry is going to work out or the offense won't suffer from having the ball in Rose's hands (since offense is a big deal) or their renowned defense will get played as well, etc, etc. Bulls are persistent and annoying, but I'm not placing them too high.*

*To be honest with you, I could see realistically any team getting knocked out in East Semis. Top 4 (all mentioned) are all relatively similar.

As for the losers who didn't make the cut:
-Sorry Detroit but you're a fringe contender.
-Sorry Knicks but you're a loser. On paper, you actually look really really good. The other teams just look better.
-OKC, sorry. You have two top 10 players, but seeing you lose one of them shows how far you can only go. I think you'll dominate regular season, but playoffs you're probably looking at a 2nd round exist.
-Houston, sorry I don't think chemistry is gonna work out THAT well. You're a fringe contender.

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Oh ya. And I called Westbrook top 10 but that was sort of for dramatic effect, I don't wanna get into arguments. Call him top 17 if you really want.

Also, if some of you smarter people noticed, I said Westbrook was only the 5th best PG, but a top 10 player. Does that mean 5 of the top 10 players are PGs? No. When I say top 10 player, I mean the person is dominant/efficient/can lead a team/scores well or other shit like that. But just because a person is top 10 overall, doesn't mean that someone can't be better at their position than them. It's kind of a tricky subject.

[Stommped]

I can't believe you're that high on LAC and GS. Personally I don't think either of those teams would stand a chance against OKC in a 7 game series. Not sure why you're so down on OKC.

-OKC, sorry. You have two top 10 players, but seeing you lose one of them shows how far you can only go.

Not sure what you mean by this. You take a top 10 player off any team and you don't think it's going to hurt them? I have OKC, SAS, and HOU all morel likely to come out of the West than LAC or GS.

[Blueobelisk]

The reason they're so high isn't because I think they're necessarily better than 4-7, it's because I think they're the best in the West, so they have a strong chance to make it out of their conference. Same reason we had trouble ranking where East 1-4 would wind up, any one of those teams could knock each other out in Semis which strongly decreases their chances of even making it to the NBA Finals.

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[icedwarrior]

Totally agree. I think houston has a chance to be really good, like 1-2 in the west good. I think Dwight is going to team of young guys that will fit his personality so much better then Kobe.

"Better than Kobe" isn't saying much. Lakers weren't that great last year... and not everyone can play with that personality. And, again, what happens late in games, when teams start fouling Howard, and he shoots sub-60%, or whatever his percentage was? Again, I'm not saying they suck or anything, just I don't forsee them being any better than fourth seed.

[Blueobelisk]

Not sure what you mean by this. You take a top 10 player off any team and you don't think it's going to hurt them? I have OKC, SAS, and HOU all morel likely to come out of the West than LAC or GS.

Oh shit I didn't even notice this until lakers quoted it lol.

So yeah, of course taking off a top 10 player is going to hurt them, but it just shows how poorly the rest of their team is. I see:
-The flawed Ibaka who can only play some defense and marginal offense.
-Loss of a 6th man.
-Kevin Durant can't get more efficient while also taking on a bigger responsibility.

Anyway. We'll see what happens but from what I saw Golden State and LAC look revamped and primed to murder some teams, not to mention SAS is older and injury proner, I mentioned some problems with OKC, and Houston...I'm waiting to see the chemistry.

It's a little early to argue too much though since we haven't even seen how well these teams are going to play.

[Blueobelisk]

I was going to make a comment that Memphis is a good team but only a fringe contender atm. Spurs took them to school.

OKC vs. Memphis last year is tough. Memphis was great, but I think OKC would have won. (It's not definite. It's more like there's a 75-80% chance OKC would win.) With Westbrook, that is. I still think that OKC (with Westbrook) would have lost in Finals to SAS.

[Jibjabb]

I too am really surprised that you have the Warriors so high. Like that surprises me a lot more than ranking the Bulls 7th. The Warriors are comprised of a team that has practically zero playoff experience outside of winning that round last year against the Nuggets, a team that is notoriously known for being terrible in the playoffs (theyve lost in the 1st round every year but 1 I believe in the past decade or more). Warriors rely on outside scoring so much with no real consistence inside, something that is hard to rely on in the postseason. Even teams that have succeeded without a major inside presence had guys who could get a bulk of their points inside to counter it (Lebron, Dirk, etc). Then theres the fact their team has shown to have injury problems for 3 of their top 5 players and they lost both of their good bench players in exchange for Iguodala. A good player to round a solid starting lineup, yet leaves them with a almost pathetic bench.

I can respect they have become relevant and can enjoy watching how they play. Yet my faith in them to actually accomplish a championship is very low.

[conscript]

I too am really surprised that you have the Warriors so high. Like that surprises me a lot more than ranking the Bulls 7th. The Warriors are comprised of a team that has practically zero playoff experience outside of winning that round last year against the Nuggets, a team that is notoriously known for being terrible in the playoffs (theyve lost in the 1st round every year but 1 I believe in the past decade or more). Warriors rely on outside scoring so much with no real consistence inside, something that is hard to rely on in the postseason. Even teams that have succeeded without a major inside presence had guys who could get a bulk of their points inside to counter it (Lebron, Dirk, etc). Then theres the fact their team has shown to have injury problems for 3 of their top 5 players and they lost both of their good bench players in exchange for Iguodala. A good player to round a solid starting lineup, yet leaves them with a almost pathetic bench.

I can respect they have become relevant and can enjoy watching how they play. Yet my faith in them to actually accomplish a championship is very low.

I'd definitely agree about the Warriors being too high. I think they have the potential to finish 3rd in the West, but to have the 3rd overall odds of winning the title seems absurd. I'd probably bump them to 7th on that list and slot everyone else up a space, Chicago possibly more than that depending on how their offense looks.

[Blueobelisk]

The hype around Steph Curry would beat Atlanta Hawks in the playoffs.

Idk guys. I just think they're young and will do well. We'll see what happens.

So. Lebron James Top 3: Jorsan, Bird, Dr. j. Plus he has to extend and say Magic #4.

Magic Johnson's response? "Get fucked fool, all that counts are rings."

*groan* This emphasis on rings lol..

[Jibjabb]

I dont think rings is all that matters. That said I dont think Lebron is that good of a player to be considered that high, although I'd put him ahead of Dr J not sure who the hell thinks Dr J is top 3 thats insane (hes prob not top 20). Lebron to me to elevate his legacy needs to increase his spotty outside shooting, and needs to close out more playoff games. If he left Miami and went to an average-ish team and was able to elevate them to a championship that would go a long way, heck if he stays with Miami and wins while Wade/Bosh become shells of what they were which may or may not be happening already its hard to tell, that too would give him a ton of "legacy" credit. I still view Bosh/Wade as superstar caliber players and still see the Heat team as a way to out-talent every team rather than outwork or outplay them to victories.

[conscript]

I dont think rings is all that matters. That said I dont think Lebron is that good of a player to be considered that high, although I'd put him ahead of Dr J not sure who the hell thinks Dr J is top 3 thats insane (hes prob not top 20). Lebron to me to elevate his legacy needs to increase his spotty outside shooting, and needs to close out more playoff games. If he left Miami and went to an average-ish team and was able to elevate them to a championship that would go a long way, heck if he stays with Miami and wins while Wade/Bosh become shells of what they were which may or may not be happening already its hard to tell, that too would give him a ton of "legacy" credit. I still view Bosh/Wade as superstar caliber players and still see the Heat team as a way to out-talent every team rather than outwork or outplay them to victories.

Magic: Kareem, Worthy, Scott
Bird: McHale, Parish, Ainge, Johnson
Jordan: Pippen, Rodman
James: Wade, Bosh

Ya LeBron definitely needs to win a Championship on a shittier team for legacy credit. It isn't like Magic, Bird or Jordan played with just as many or way, way more Hall of Fame caliber players in far less parity driven years. Oh wait, Magic and Bird played on teams that were not only full of the greatest players of their era, but the greatest players of ALL TIME.

As for "improving his outside shooting," LeBron shot 56.5% last year and 40.6% from 3, that ties Magic's highest FG% ever and blows away his best 3pt%. His FG% was better than any that Larry Bird put up in his career, although Bird does beat his 3pt% a couple times. Seriously, what more could LeBron possibly do for you? He can't possibly "close out more playoff games" than he has the last two seasons when he singlehandedly put down Boston, Indiana, OKC, and the Spurs in clutch spots. Do you want him to put up a 40/15/15 since apparently 27/8/8 isn't good enough. Why is the standard for LeBron to be considered one of the greatest ever so much ridiculously higher than every other greatest ever? Bird and Magic played on teams full of Hall of Famers. Jordan played with two top 50 guys. Bird has the same number of Finals MVPs, one more title, and less MVPs. Magic has more titles obviously, but they never played with even comparable talent. Magic has one fewer MVP and one more Finals MVP.

LeBron has 4 MVPs, 2 rings, 2 Finals MVPs, is a defensive and All NBA player every year, leads his team in points, assists, rebounds, and steals every year, he has 4 of the top 11 PER seasons EVER. Last season he finished 5th in %, 3rd in TS%, top 30 in 3pt%, 4th in ppg, top 30 in rpg, 11 in apg, 12th in spg, 1st in PER by a mile, 1st in win shares. He is by far the best player in the NBA, arguably on both ends of the floor, has been for years, and shows no signs that he is going to slip from that spot any time soon. What else could LeBron possibly do? Not that it even matters to argue this because LeBron is 28 and his accomplishments blow away any other all time great at that age.

[Blueobelisk]

The NBA All-Star Game could be coming to New York. Twice. In a three-year period.

Multiple league sources maintain that the 2015 All-Star Game will be played at Madison Square Garden on Sunday of All-Star weekend with the Friday and Saturday night events – the skills, shooting and dunk competitions – set for Barclays Center.

The league and both the Nets and Knicks still are negotiating on a proposal to have a reversal in either 2017 or 2018 -- Brooklyn would stage the game while the Knicks and the Garden would serve as host for the Friday and Saturday events. The Nets, sources said, are not completely sold on the host role down the road for a myriad of reasons.

“It’s a possibility,” one league source confirmed of the 2017 or ’18 event plan but cautioned that “nothing has been finalized. They (Nets) aren’t certain (they want it).”

There are so many other factors to consider another source stressed, noting that by 2017-18 both the Garden and Barclays Center would be the home for hockey teams as well.

On a plus side, keeping the event in the city would be financially attractive for the NBA, which routinely rolls into the All-Star host city and spends a king’s ransom on hotels and communications for league staff.

Both the Knicks and the Nets have lobbied for the 2015 All-Star Game which would be billed as a New York City event, sharing arenas in Brooklyn and Manhattan. The last All-Star Game in York was 1998 at the Garden.

Recently, NBA deputy commissioner Adam Silver told The Post, “There is a process in that the (Knicks and Nets) are working together…On a business level, the teams get along very well…the nature of the sport is that the teams are highly competitive and you want them to be but they both recognize that they’re partners in the league and this is something that is positive for both teams.”

MSG is easier to get to by train. I WANT GO. Sunday's game of course. As we said, Dunk Contest is better in front of TV with snacks and instant replay. Celebrity game is usually gay. Rookie challenge is only good if Kyrie does another sick as fuck crossover. Although rookie game is gonna suck if you can't see Shaq and Charles Barkley argue and make fun of each other, kukuku.

[buck008]

I dont think rings is all that matters. That said I dont think Lebron is that good of a player to be considered that high, although I'd put him ahead of Dr J not sure who the hell thinks Dr J is top 3 thats insane (hes prob not top 20). Lebron to me to elevate his legacy needs to increase his spotty outside shooting, and needs to close out more playoff games. If he left Miami and went to an average-ish team and was able to elevate them to a championship that would go a long way, heck if he stays with Miami and wins while Wade/Bosh become shells of what they were which may or may not be happening already its hard to tell, that too would give him a ton of "legacy" credit. I still view Bosh/Wade as superstar caliber players and still see the Heat team as a way to out-talent every team rather than outwork or outplay them to victories.

A few things.

If Dr J isn't in your top 20, I don't know how you evaluate talent.

Miami is an average team without Lebron. Wade is not the player he was 3 years ago. Bosh wasn't a superstar when this team was assembled, he became a household name because of it. His numbers have never been great. Also, Lebron carried a brutal Cleveland team all the way to the finals. That team wasn't average without him, they were awful.

Lastly, I think we get too wrapped up in these legacy debates too early. When Jordan first broke into the league, he was never going to be as good as Magic. Magic was never going to be as great as Wilt. It's always the same. The old guard never wants to see that some new guy might just be that good. Lebron is. In ten years, this whole conversation will seem silly unless James gets cut short by injury or falls off the face of the Earth. The numbers are there. You can see it when he plays. Eventually this won't even be a debate anymore. The only debate will be where in the top 5 James is on your list.

[Jibjabb]

You guys act like saying Lebron isnt one of the 3 greatest players EVER is a diss. You want to be considered the all time best then you get held to the highest of all standards.

Facts are Lebron has a 2-2 finals record. The 2 losses he was a complete no show, I dont need to bring out the stat line again and this last one wouldve been a loss if it werent for some huge Bosh offensive boards or Ray Allens crazy last second three. A lot of people even said that Manu Ginobili was the most valuable player for the Heat that series essentially throwing the games away. I cant really just overlook 2 NBA finals were he was pathetic and then call this game one of the best ever to play the game.

Then lets look at Lebrons shooting. Ya he got 40% 3PT... Once. hes been in the league 10 years, you cant take 1 year and say thats the career you take the career. His career 3PT is 33% and his career FT is 74.7%. Both are decent at best. His FG% is so high because of so many points coming at the basket, which is fine but were supposed to be talking about his shooting. Hoopdata in the years its covered shooting statistics shows Lebron has shot 36% or below in 4 of the last 7 seasons from 10 to 15 feet. Meanwhile Kobe Bryant has never once registered below 42%.

Also getting players drafted to your team or traded to your team are in no way similar to leaving your team and conspiring with other free agents to go form a super team and then having a parade to show what a great talented team you have just formed.

A lot of teams were awful without their best players. Iverson took the 76ers to the finals, a team that was worse than Cleveland. Dirk won the finals with Jason Terry as the 2nd best player. Ever see the Suns when Nash was out?

As for Julius: 21.9 PPG 7.0 REB 4.1 AST
Paul Pierce: 21.8 PPG 6.0 REB 3.9 AST

Hardly that different and nobody in the right mind is saying Paul Pierce is a top 20 all time player.

[jreg]

You guys act like saying Lebron isnt one of the 3 greatest players EVER is a diss. You want to be considered the all time best then you get held to the highest of all standards.

That isn't their problem with your post; it's how retarded your method of deciding who gets in that club is. You aren't setting high standards, you're setting retarded standards.

Furthermore, what I got from conscript's post was that it's pretty fucking futile to decide if LeBron will end up in the top 3/top 5/top X category because his career isn't done. People were saying the same shit when Michael Jordan was still playing.

Facts are Lebron has a 2-2 finals record. The 2 losses he was a complete no show, I dont need to bring out the stat line again and this last one wouldve been a loss if it werent for some huge Bosh offensive boards or Ray Allens crazy last second three. A lot of people even said that Manu Ginobili was the most valuable player for the Heat that series essentially throwing the games away. I cant really just overlook 2 NBA finals were he was pathetic and then call this game one of the best ever to play the game.

Have you ever seen Kobe's finals stats? Outside of Orlando 09, and parts of Celtics 10, they aren't exactly eye popping either. I refuse to judge a player with small sample sizes. It's like every retard who comes out of the wood work decided Kobe is an overrated bum because "Shaq carried his ass" forgetting that Kobe played like a fucking monster in the WCFs previous to both 01 and the 02 finals.

Then lets look at Lebrons shooting. Ya he got 40% 3PT... Once. hes been in the league 10 years, you cant take 1 year and say thats the career you take the career. His career 3PT is 33% and his career FT is 74.7%. Both are decent at best.

I'm not really sure why this is even an argument for either side here. MJ has a career 3 point shooting percentage of 32.7% and you're not going to find too many people who dispute his GOAT status. I do find it interesting that both MJ and LBJ were below average 3 point shooters to start and gradually got better to the point where you could even call them lethal 3 point shooters.

His FG% is so high because of so many points coming at the basket, which is fine but were supposed to be talking about his shooting. Hoopdata in the years its covered shooting statistics shows Lebron has shot 36% or below in 4 of the last 7 seasons from 10 to 15 feet. Meanwhile Kobe Bryant has never once registered below 42%.

I don't think anyone is trying to champion the idea LeBron is the greatest shooter of all time simply because his FG% is super high. That said, you are severely cherry picking the data. Why not the other shooting ranges? How about 16 to 22 ft? The last four years, LeBron has posted on average higher percentages from there then Kobe. Picking one shooting range isn't going to tell the whole story.

Also getting players drafted to your team or traded to your team are in no way similar to leaving your team and conspiring with other free agents to go form a super team and then having a parade to show what a great talented team you have just formed.

You're right, the only difference is that at the end, team's acquired players - oh.

And are you really still talking about a FAN PEP RALLY?

As for Julius: 21.9 PPG 7.0 REB 4.1 AST
Paul Pierce: 21.8 PPG 6.0 REB 3.9 AST

This NBA stats only? Dr. J at his best is significantly better than Pierce, no disrespect to The Truth.

[buck008]

Those were just his NBA stats. He was also a 3 time ABA MVP (with one more in the NBA), he won 2 ABA titles and 1 NBA, led the ABA in scoring 3 times (and was top 10 nearly every year even into the NBA), he also finished in the top 10 in assists and rebounds nearly every year, he would have led the league in PER had that existed, and he's 6th in total points scored in NBA history. Find me a metric where that guy isn't in your top 20 and I'll wave the white flag. Oh, and watch the man dunk. Thing of beauty.

Honestly, you're just hunting for reasons to hate on Lebron now. Look back at any of the great player's title runs. They all have games that they absolutely took over and won. So does Lebron. They all have games were they just played very well instead of superhuman, those games were won by a roleplayer or a stroke of luck. We all act like Ron Artest didn't hit some crazy shot to help Kobe win a ring. How about the time the Bulls won a finals on John Paxson's shot? How about the time Magic basically lost a finals to the Celtics with turnovers and missed free throws down the stretch? People expect Lebron to be perfect, because they have this false memory of immaculate stars of yesteryear. James' raw numbers put him on a level with anyone who has ever played the game. If you want to invent reasons to take him off of that pedestal, than at least apply your criticisms evenly. By your definition, no one was clutch ever, because everyone has moments where they fucked up or when some other guy had to step up. Even the mighty Jordan didn't win a damn thing for seven years. And Isiah Thomas owned his ass in the playoffs. Does that make Isiah a better player? Lastly, Jordan didn't win until Pippen and Phil Jackson got there. Magic and Bird had loaded teams. Nobody does it alone.

Oh, and one last thing. Free agency exists. Deal with it. It is a perfectly legitimate thing for a group of guys who are not under contract to decide to play for a team. Rivalries don't exist like they used to. The game is different. To claim that Lebron essentially picking his team (even though everyone knows that Wade masterminded the whole thing) would somehow invalidate his accomplishments with that team is ludicrous. If anything, he set the bar even higher. This team has to succeed or it would have been the biggest laughingstock in league history. James' reputation would be gone forever. All they did was go to three finals and win two of them. Miami won this year with two-thirds of Wade (generously), a no show from Bosh, a series where Chris (the goddamn Birdman) Anderson was their second best player, and a bunch of stiffs well past their prime. Then you said you want to see James "elevate" an average team for legacy points, I pointed out that he took a god awful Cleveland team to the finals, and you basically said, "So what? These other guys all did that." So what do you want him to do? Sweep the finals against the aliens from Space Jam with a team of disabled puppies? What exactly is the bar that he needs to achieve? It seems to keep moving.

[Jibjabb]

The NBA is what matters. Getting good stats against lesser competition doesnt impress me. Should we start giving international stats for players before they came to the pros. I am not nieve enough to think that its merely a coincidence that his impact on games took a significant dip after coming to the NBA from the ABA. Look it up for yourselves. Its just like Wilt's stat line after they changed it so you cant offensive goaltend anymore.

What Lebron did that Jordan or whoever didnt do is completely disappear in 2 NBA finals. Find me the times that it happened for him. Ill wait. Also when Jordan got help from Paxson on a last second shot that was game 6, bulls up 3-2. It was not the series. If Ray Allen misses or Bosh (the guy being ripped by many of you) doesnt get those rebounds series is over, Spurs win. Theres a difference. Im not even holding that shot against him, but I am showing how close the difference to say 2 time champion to 1 time with 3 losses for something he didnt even have any control over.

And Jordan never was a good 3PT shooter. He could have times where he would get hot and hit them but thats not his game much like Lebron. He however was a very excellent midrange shooter something Lebron is not and never has been. If you had to list the best shooters in the NBA today it would take a very long time before anyone got to Lebron James and all I said was if he could improve that aspect of his game to be a better/more consistent than it has been (aka not 1 season) it would go a long way toward improving his potential as a player. His FT% has always been poor for a scorer as well.

For clutchness I dont look at one moment and say oh look Lebron isnt a clutch player. Theres honestly multitudes and I get tired of having to list them over and over and over because of this lapse of memory here, be it certain moments or stats. Ive posted them in the past want em again dig em up. Its a lot worse than many players in the game today, let alone those from eras past.

What I would like to see Lebron do is this: Stay with Miami for good, dont title chase for a team that is now gonna look more enticing. Create a dynasty with that team as best he can regardless of Wade/Bosh contributions or lack thereof. Almost all the greats built dynasties with their team. Improve his shooting %s, basically keep the 3PTs in the upper 30's and raise the FTs to the 80s. And in the playoffs and the finals especially keep your regular season averages going. Usually his numbers are worse in the postseason than his regular seasons, keep em the same or heck improve em. Do all that and nobody can really argue anything against him. The postseason last year (the OKC finals one) to me was the one year it was hard to find faults with what he did. He played great and if he wants to be the best ever thats what he needs to do.

[Blueobelisk]

nobody in the right mind is saying Paul Pierce is a top 20 all time player.

-biased, not in right mind comment since PP is playing for my home team now-

Sweep the finals against the aliens from Space Jam with a team of disabled puppies?

You know, Thundershock or whatever Kevin Durant's movie is on HBO. I was considering watching it, but I wikipedia'ed the plot a long time ago and it looked stupid lol.

[Spectral]

Facts are Lebron has a 2-2 finals record. The 2 losses he was a complete no show

In the first one, he was a 22 year old carrying an otherwise mediocre team against one of the greatest dynastic defensive squads of all time. Hardly an indictment of his abilities or career.

The Dallas series is an indictment, but 18-7-7 on 48% shooting isn't a no show.

The last two are 29-10-7 and 25-11-7. Keep in mind, this is in a much lower scoring league environment than the 1980s stat lines that get posted. Those are transcendentally excellent stat lines when considering his defense and overall impact on the game. We're talking about a guy that's right in the heart of his prime, not a career that's being evaluated after all his achievements have accumulated. I suppose you can still plausible argue him as low as about the 5th best player ever, but only by taking an extremely dim view of what he's likely to accomplish going forward. Given a reasonable median estimate for the remainder of his career, I can't possibly see him lower than 3rd and as plainly the greatest small forward ever.

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What Lebron did that Jordan or whoever didnt do is completely disappear in 2 NBA finals.

He didn't disappear, but Jordan did his best to shoot Chicago out of the '95 Finals, slapping up a total line of 27-5-4 on 41% shooting. They blew games 4 and 5, then closed out Game 6 despite Jordan shooting 5 of 19. The Bulls defense closed that series out, not some one man Jordan show. By any measure, going 5 of 19 in a closeout game is disappearing, but it wound up not impacting his legacy because his teammates played well enough and because Seattle shot 5 of 24 on threes (Perkins was 0 of 7 and missed some really depressing open shots that he normally nails).

Weighting team accomplishments heavily is fine. Ignoring that players pretty regularly have horrible games that go unnoticed because their teammates pick up the slack isn't.

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Create a dynasty with that team as best he can regardless of Wade/Bosh contributions or lack thereof. Almost all the greats built dynasties with their team.

This shit's pretty tiresome. The other greats got to build their teams in the context of a league with no pertinent cap. Think the Lakers are keeping Magic, Kareem, and Worthy together and still able to supplement with Scott, Thompson, and the rest of that supporting cast if there's a modern cap structure? Think the Celtics are able to keep Bird, McHale, Parrish, and Johnson all together and supplement with Ainge, Wydman, and Walton? Seems pretty unlikely to me. Things are different now than in the past; free agency makes it easier to assemble guys across teams, but it also makes it harder to keep guys that were smartly drafted. Team contexts are entirely different.