Poll: Would you accept Lor'themar Theron as your Warchief

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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    So, the blood elf nobody whos name they could even remember prior to mists now suddenly the gang bang wants him to be warchief because he got a little bit of lore.

    Yeah thats the kind of logic I expect from the wow community these days.
    And that's the kind of reply I expect from someone who has no real argument.

    Lor'themar has no idea how to govern anyone outside of his own people.
    Basing this comment on what?

    He has no idea about the harshness of life races like trolls and orcs live in durotar, and he wouldn't give up living in his shiny silvermoon for that reason.
    No... losing most of his race to the scourge and then being betrayed by the alliance was a cakewalk. Yes, shiny silvermoon with that huge gash through it's center as a constant reminder of what happened to their people.

    And as many have said, he was five minutes away from leaving the horde altogether and joining the alliance, if not for Jaina and her doings. He isn't 100% loyal, and it took someone in the alliance saying 'fuk u' to make him change his mind. Thats not someone i want leading the horde, hell, even Garrosh had more loyalty as a raving sociopath
    No, he wasn't. He was looking at all the options, that doesn't mean he's about to turn on the horde. In fact he wasn't looking at turning on the horde, he was looking at turning on Garrosh, which he's doing.

    Garrosh had more loyalty to the ORCS. He has zero loyalty to the horde. The fact that you make that argument shows you have no clue about what's really going on. Garrosh is using all the other races as his cannon fodder to further the ORC agenda.

    lor'themar works fine in his position, have him build his role as a stronger leader for the blood elves.. but if you make him warchief, that role becomes all but pointless and he can't develop in it well having to deal with the entire horde.
    Because Garrosh didn't make the role pointless? He didn't taint that role? Please. You're grasping at straws that don't exist to cover up the fact that in the end, you simply don't want him to be warchief because he's an elf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    Because that king wants all the races in that Horde dead except orcs...? ...obviously? Also, please look up the definition of the term "moron" or at least proof-read your own fallacy-ridden drivel before you throw cute little names around. Thanks, bye.
    So what you're saying with this fail of a reply is... I won? Yes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsychotic View Post
    Chris Metzen said it 1-2 years ago that it was Orc Vs Human at it's core. It's not just coming from posters on here. Accept Metzen or get out :')

    OT:
    Personally I'd be annoyed considering the fact he said he'd "consider old alliances" which tells me he would be a traitor if the situation for his Blood Elves was not good. A Warchief does not do this, nor even think it and that's why I think Lor'themar would be poor choice on Blizzard's part, given the words that came out of that possible traitor's mouth.
    /sigh You guys are persecuting him over a consideration... a consideration that was made before the rebellion started. Vol'jin is throwing the horde into civil war but that's okay?

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntzii View Post
    EXACTLY... I've yet to see an intelligent argument as to why, specifically he should not be made warchief other than his race. Any other arguments I've seen are full of loopholes that can be applied to any number of the other discussed candidates.
    You choose to ignore it.

    Lor'themar and Vol'jin may have both considered leaving the Horde, but the difference between them is, no matter how many times Vol'jin was tempted to leave (at least three times), he made a conscious decision to stay with the Horde. Lor'themar, in that one time that really mattered, had that choice made for him. Yes, this matters.

    Lor'themar Theron being more receptive to the Alliance ideal is also a mark against him because it means he's far more likely to be beholden to the interests of the Alliance than the Horde, and while that seems like a huge plus for the Alliance, that is not necessarily in the Horde's best interests. Turning the Horde into a satellite nation of the Alliance would only make the Horde resentful of Lor'themar. This similarly is a mark against Baine, who associates with Jaina and Anduin on a personal basis and on certain levels is indebted to them.

    If Varian isn't stupid he'll know that his goal is to make sure the Horde doesn't come back and hit him really hard somewhere down the line; making them thoroughly hate him only perpetuates the cycle of hatred. Having a say in picking the Warchief doesn't necessarily mean you pick the one that is most likely to side with Alliance interests (if that was the intended goal the true outcome of the war would be assimilating the Horde into the Alliance so any holdout would be ineffective), but rather the Warchief has to be one who can instill a sense of humility in opposition to the overwhelming pride of Garrosh's regime without destroying the soul of the Horde.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by arcaneshot View Post
    You choose to ignore it.

    Lor'themar and Vol'jin may have both considered leaving the Horde, but the difference between them is, no matter how many times Vol'jin was tempted to leave (at least three times), he made a conscious decision to stay with the Horde. Lor'themar, in that one time that really mattered, had that choice made for him. Yes, this matters.

    Lor'themar Theron being more receptive to the Alliance ideal is also a mark against him because it means he's far more likely to be beholden to the interests of the Alliance than the Horde, and while that seems like a huge plus for the Alliance, that is not necessarily in the Horde's best interests. Turning the Horde into a satellite nation of the Alliance would only make the Horde resentful of Lor'themar. This similarly is a mark against Baine, who associates with Jaina and Anduin on a personal basis and on certain levels is indebted to them.

    If Varian isn't stupid he'll know that his goal is to make sure the Horde doesn't come back and hit him really hard somewhere down the line; making them thoroughly hate him only perpetuates the cycle of hatred. Having a say in picking the Warchief doesn't necessarily mean you pick the one that is most likely to side with Alliance interests (if that was the intended goal the true outcome of the war would be assimilating the Horde into the Alliance so any holdout would be ineffective), but rather the Warchief has to be one who can instill a sense of humility in opposition to the overwhelming pride of Garrosh's regime without destroying the soul of the Horde.

    Frankly lor'themar just agrees with the game.

    1 Expansion : Team up to storm the dark portal and retake outland.
    2 Expansion : Team up to take out the lich king
    3 Expansion : Team up to take out deathwing
    4 Expansion : Team up to take out Garrosh.

    This whole freaking game is based around the principle that the horde and alliance are better off as a unit. MoP the most recent try and pitting the horde against the alliance failed miserably as nobody really truly cares about such a childish conflict that has no real merit at this point anyway.

    If anything it'd be logical to have two leaders who were sympathetic to this ideal so the game could move somewhere else rather than dragging this joke of a failed story behind it through another 4 expansions...where we team up to take someone else out.
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  4. #284
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    if anything, the fact that Lor'themar was seriously considering leaving the Horde does not show his 'disloyalty' to the Horde, it shows he is a strict pragmatist, and I would prefer to be led by a pragmatist than an idealist.

    His putative 'disloyalty' to the Horde was only a disloyalty to a coalition that threatened the well-being of the people he governed; which, as a leader is his first responsibility. Were he the leader of the entire Horde, his responsibility would be well-being of the entire Horde, and when push comes to shove I confident he would be the sort of man to do what is best for the well-being of [all] his people.

    The fact that he doesn't 'like' being a paper-pushing politician is also a good thing. Professional Politicians are by their very nature slimy, smarmy sleaze-balls, and any man who would willingly enter into politics by that very willingness is unfit to enter into it. No one who wants to be a politician deserves to be one.
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2013-08-27 at 02:05 PM.

  5. #285
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    if anything, the fact that Lor'themar was seriously considering leaving the Horde does not show his 'disloyalty' to the Horde, it shows he is a strict pragmatist, and I would prefer to be led by a pragmatist than an idealist.

    His putative 'disloyalty' to the Horde was only a disloyalty to a coalition that threatened the well-being of the people he governed; which, as a leader is his first responsibility. Were he the leader of the entire Horde, his responsibility would be well-being of the entire Horde, and when push comes to shove I confident he would be the sort of man to do what is best for the well-being of [all] his people.
    It's not the problem of leaving the Horde, it's leaving the Horde to join the Alliance.

  6. #286
    I think he'd do fine, at least he would listen to the other leaders...I'd still prefer a high council form of government for the Horde though, as a Warchief can obviously play favorites like Garrosh did.
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  7. #287
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    It's not the problem of leaving the Horde, it's leaving the Horde to join the Alliance.

    Well let's think about it pragmatically. You can't leave one coalition and be neutral thereafter. Leaving a coalition makes you the enemy of both. You have to leave one coalition and enter into another. if Vol'jin were to have left the horde he would probably have had no choice but to join with either the Zandalari Trolls or the Amani/Gurubashi league, both of which are just as hostile as the Alliance, and so both option would have been just as 'treasonous' as the Belfs rejoining the Alliance.

    Neutrality is not an option for a small group like the Belfs or the Darkspear.

    So it's still just the pragmatic decision.

    Idealism is not an option.

  8. #288
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    His race is reason enough. The blood elves are outsiders. They are not Horde. They are in an alliance of convenience. The tauren, orcs, and trolls are all basically sworn brothers - why they Hell would they let a blood elf be "warchief"? Would they let Sylvanas be "warqueen"? No. Because they're outsiders. There, that was easy.

    Also, yes, blood elves are fairies while the rest of the real Horde are brutes and savages.
    The Blood Elves are as much outsiders as the Tauren and Trolls are, meaning not at all. Sworn brothers? Everyone makes an oath when joining the Horde, everyone who joins, are no longer considered outsiders. An example of an outsider would be the Grimtotem clan Tauren, or the Blackrock Orcs.

    The Horde is no longer just about the Orcs, even Vol'jin makes this point when he says that the Horde is a family, which means everyone who is part of it is a member of said family, which means that nobody within the Horde, is an outsider. The Orcs can rage all they want for not getting an Orc Warchief, the rest of the Horde can easily put them in their place. Furthermore, the Orcs who chose not to follow Garrosh, will probably not have a problem with a none-Orc Warchief considering Garrosh.

  9. #289
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    The Blood Elves are as much outsiders as the Tauren and Trolls are, meaning not at all. Sworn brothers? Everyone makes an oath when joining the Horde, everyone who joins, are no longer considered outsiders. An example of an outsider would be the Grimtotem clan Tauren, or the Blackrock Orcs.

    The Horde is no longer just about the Orcs,[...]
    PRECISELY!

    5/6ths of the horde are outsiders by FoxHeart's logic.

    Nations can change factions between one war to the next.
    Japan was an Ally of the US and England in WWI
    Turkey was an Ally of Germany in WWI,

    both those alliances had switched just 20 years later when WWII started. This whole 'insider/outsider' distinction is absurd when speaking about international political alliances.

  10. #290
    Deleted
    it won't happen but i still think he is the perfect candidate for the "after garrosh" considering the other leaders were hiding, complaining and playing dead while garrosh is destroying the horde.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyCasual View Post
    is this not the same guy that was considering leaving the horde and rejoining the alliance? If so it wouldnt make a whole lot of sense for him to go from that line of thinking to warchief.
    hi ho anyone there? he was negotiating with the alliance because garrosh and his horde were using him and the belfs as cannon fodders just for the lulz, i would have done the same thing, but hey if garrosh is dead and the horde can be rebuild lor'themar is the best choice.
    if you cannot understand why, that's your problem not mine nor of wow lore.

    p.s. if blizz fucks up and decide the warchief has to be an orc at least i hope they will choose saurfang, last valid orc in whole azeroth.
    Last edited by mmoc4521b98980; 2013-08-27 at 03:21 PM.

  11. #291
    if I was to come back to WoW I'd reroll allies with him or a troll as warchief

  12. #292
    an orc must always be warchief. in my opinion.

  13. #293
    Considering I was a huge fan back when he was "Who?" -


    I'd probably have a blast if it were true.

  14. #294
    I think Quel'thalas could actually do quite well as an independent nation again. One word -- Sunwell. It was only without it, and still dealing with the Scourge Arthas left there, that they really had to pin their survival on finding allies. With the Sunwell restored and control of Quel'thalas as well, they could do quite well on their own as long as they didn't go picking a fight with the other Horde nations on the way out the door.

    Really, it's the fact that Quel'thalas is one of the most powerful pieces on the board again that makes Lor'themar as Warchief something that makes more sense -- because it's now that the Horde needs them at least as much as they need the Horde, because they are stable and strong and the Horde's Kalimdor races are pretty much in disarray and dissent.

    Heh, the thought also puts a funny spin on all those arguments over Alleria and her loyalties -- it would be one thing to see her react to the Blood Elves aligned with the Orcs, it would be quite another for her to react to a Blood Elf reigning over them.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by arcaneshot View Post
    You choose to ignore it.
    And you assume I've actually seen an inelligent reply TO ignore. Yours is the first that actually lists tangible reasons beyond 'he der puffster elf hur hur'.

  16. #296
    In all seriousness if Lorthremar became warchief, itd probably be a more organized horde. Which id play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    In all seriousness if Lorthremar became warchief, itd probably be a more organized horde. Which id play.
    People can qq all the way, Lor'thermar as Warchief would be the best option for all the good reasons that players have stated in this thread so far. I'm sorry but it's true. We don't need another Warmonger, or the same old Orc oriented ideology which honestly has ran the Horde into the ground time and time again. The Alliance is running over our capital because of an Orc for God's sake!

    Lor'themar has shown great leadership this expansion. With him controlling the Sunwell, and having Sylvanas in check as Warchief, he would also have control over the Plague by default, making sure it DOESN'T get USED any longer. Why can't people understand this? We need to rebuild after this war, not continue the war. Kalimdor could use a rest for a while.

    And after a while, we can go have some fun with the Night Elves /evilgrin

  18. #298
    Over 9000! Golden Yak's Avatar
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    It'd be the most interesting choice, I think. I'd love to see the blood elves move forwards with their development - to see what they'll become now that the Sunwell is restored, now that their society is getting strong again. Bring some of that techno-sorcery engineering to the fore of Horde warfare as well.

  19. #299
    Elemental Lord Flutterguy's Avatar
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    Sylvanas gets a proxy into power? I love it.

  20. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterguy View Post
    Sylvanas gets a proxy into power? I love it.
    As if Sylvanas has sway over anyone anymore. It's clear from 5.4 that Lor'themar is having none of her shit.

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