On the PTR it was 510 for wing 1, 520 for wing 2, 520 for wing 3. My guess is wing 4 should be tuned for 530 ilvl.
SoO LFR is 496 (confirmed in the "gearing up for 5.4" blue post).
On the PTR it was 510 for wing 1, 520 for wing 2, 520 for wing 3. My guess is wing 4 should be tuned for 530 ilvl.
SoO LFR is 496 (confirmed in the "gearing up for 5.4" blue post).
Why do you think Blizzard should "punish" players who take time off? In what possible way could that benefit anyone in a subscription game?
Anyone, that is, except for bitter old Vanilla curmudgeons who walked uphill both ways in the sand to Silithus.
If you enjoy playing the game, you will not find it a problem that you have something to do if you stay subscribed continually. If you enjoy playing the game, you won't want to drive returning players away by making their experience suck for them and then taunting them about it.
Can you run flex a limitless number of times per week? (even though you only get loot from the first run through) (this would also mean that you can guarantee getting the meta mount on the first week)
And also if your a 13/13 raider is it reasonable to expect a full clear of flex in the afternoon on launch day before normal raid time starts?
Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
Before the camps, I regarded the existence of nationality as something that shouldn’t be noticed - nationality did not really exist, only humanity. But in the camps one learns: if you belong to a successful nation you are protected and you survive. If you are part of universal humanity - too bad for you -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff
i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760
Requiring someone who took time off to put in the same amount of effort as someone who has been playing all along in order to catch up is horrible for the game.
It's horrible for the players who can't catch up to "what the cool folks are doing" and it's horrible to the cool folks because they can't find two more people who are geared for their 10 man raid. It's horrible for Blizzard because both groups of people become frustrated and quit.
If you are only playing the game to collect gear, and gearing is how you measure your success in the game, then ultimately WoW is not going to be that much fun for you, because gearing is not awesomely fun by itself. And anyway, gear is a tool, and a tool that's required to do things in the part of the game that focus is on these days (current level 90 content), and people who pay their $15/mo have a right to expect relatively "fair" access to the tools they need, to play the part of the game they expect to play.
I'm not sure why you chose to insult me instead of posting a thoughtful reply, but whatever.
Guys and Gals, the topic was created by OP to discuss the minimum ilvl for FLEX. Arguing how to catch up, who's played the game more etc - derails the thread. Please get back on topic.
PS, if you wish to argue with someone, you can do it via PMs.
The thing is, I don't think anyone can know now exactly what ilevel a pug will need to be reasonably successful in Flex, because no one knows the final numbers Blizzard will tune it to.
However, I think that in the case of a group of friends (who don't mind wiping a few times, just not 10 or 20 times per boss), who haven't done any normal mode content, Blizzard probably expects an average ilevel of 502-505. It's possible to hit 520 or higher without ever setting foot in normal mode but that's not the target audience.
Now, a pug will need better gear to compensate for the lack of friendliness and also the impatience with wipes that groups of quasi-strangers have. So, if a 502 group of beer-drinking buddies can clear the first wing of Flex, you will probably want 510-515, or even 520, from the group of impatient poorly socialized basement-dwellers.
Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff
i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760
I'm running a flex raid with my guild on the first night. Our guild has two raid teams who have cleared Lei Shen normal and done a couple heroics, and a bunch of people who have only done LFR or who haven't raided this expansion. I'm asking for everyone to bring their best-geared character on the first night, but I'm not going to require a minimum for our social members. I don't plan to exclude any social members. I figure to get 12-15 of our raiders and 5-10 non-raiders.
I'm not excluding anyone due to gear.
I think I'll let my experiences of the first week guide my decisions for second and subsequent weeks. I'll probably put a limit of once to carry a non-raider in low gear, and a limit of how many below-500s we'll carry. But part of the joy of flex is the guild's new ability to gear up someone's fresh alt. I don't want to throw that away, I may want that for myself some time.
/facepalm
The target audience is 1/12N. The raiders who are progressing in normal have ... normal ... and have no reason to be in flex at all other than for fun runs with their friends.
If a group of beer drinking buddies can't clear the first wing in 3-6 hours starting in 505 or at most 510, Flex has no reason to exist.
If it turns out to be too hard for that, I guarantee you Blizzard will nerf it hard within 1-2 weeks, till it is doable under those conditions, and quite possibly within 3-4 days.
500 should be fair, i doubt flex will be that hard.
This is coming from someone with 521 item level and 3/12 ToT Normal progress. (I would have done more but i caught a cold and missed the the last few raids my guild did before disbanding).
Last edited by Fluorescent0; 2013-08-29 at 06:36 PM.
Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff
i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760
Blizzard intends 502 per their PTR testing, but realistically I would expect group leaders to set requirements to hover around whatever it currently takes to get into ToT pugs on your server. This would be about 520 here.
Last edited by MrExcelion; 2013-08-29 at 11:16 PM.
Lazy ? Having 9 toons between 500 and 510ilvl I don't see how I'm being lazy. Also I can guarantee I can out preform most people @ 520ilvl with all my characters. Pugs are hit and miss, on my server I know mostly who's good, and the rest will be trial and error I'm not going to reject people just because they're not 520ilvl+. How ever I will remember / blacklist people that are trash no matter the ilvl and not invite them in the future. Also let's be real a pug hardmode LFR is nothing compared to real pugging.