How can the Orcs still control the Horde after this?

[Al Gorefiend]

I highly doubt that they will shift the cultural identity of the Horde and overall image of the Horde since WCI to Metrosexual "Cleaner-Cut-Than-The-Alliance" Elves, and "Don't-cut-yourself-on-all-that-edge" Zombies. It'd pretty much be Blizzard spitting in the face of any Horde player that cares about the lore in the slightest. Personally, I'll be pissed if we're unfortunate, even, to get a Non-Orc Warchief. Screw "variety" and "change" progress for the sake of progress isn't a good thing.

My subscription lies with rather or not Lor'Themar becomes Warchief. Anybody but Lor'themar would be engaging for me. Lor'Themar as Warchief would be nothing more than fan service for the stupidly overpopulated Blood Elf playerbase. Hell, Lor'themar as warchief? Cool let's just make Mekkatorque High King of the Alliance. Makes just as much sense.

[docterfreeze]

Orcs will always lead the horde and humans will always lead the alliance.

[darkwarrior42]

Orcs will still be on top because Blizzard's put way too much time and effort into making everyone else trivial and insignificant, despite having a few moments of glory, to change that in the future.

[Redpanda]

orcs are the master race of the game. we will still run shit after garrosh

[IdTheDemon]

I'm pretty sure lorewise, the majority of Orcs that are killed in Siege are the Dragonmaw/Blackrock Orcs that have joined the Horde during Cata along with Garrosh's Kor'Kron.

[Thage]

While the orcs might remain in power, I can't find it in me to believe for one second they'll have the same level of control they did before the rebellion. Even something as simple as requiring a majority vote from the other leaders before committing to a war, or those other leaders holding veto power--Vol'jin, Lor'themar, and Baine wouldn't let the Horde power structure remain as-is, and some system of checks would be put into effect to prevent another tyrant from gaining absolute power within the Horde like Garrosh did.

[Syio]

There is more to the Horde than orcs, and the Horde is no stranger to oppression and annihilation.
If orcs are forced to acknowledge that they will no longer be a dominant force in the Horde, so be it; I can see some pros in that.

In Vol'jin's words:

Horde be a family. When de whole world try ta put us down, de family come an' pick us back up. We all each other got, see?

[Deleted]

It's ok if they take a back seat as long as the blood elves don't get center stage.

[SodiumChloride]

I think the Orcs vs Humans ideal is done. The Horde will be predominantly Undead and Blood Elf in the next expansion I think. More of the magical, chaotic neutral faction rather than the beastial, shamanistic tone it has now.

Don't know if it's done. But it is getting tired though.

It never should have been Orcs vs Humans. It should have been the Horde vs the Alliance.

[Asotcha]

yet, i hear many who play alliance argue that this expansion has been horde favored.

Eh, not all of us---a lot of us are just grateful that our king wasnt still in his 'screw the horde' phase when he got to Pandaria, or this raid-boss sized shoe could have been on the other foot. The Sha dont discriminate between targets. Its not like he's fond of you guys per-se, but he has become a lot more even-handed then he used to be when Jaina was still a diplomat. So weve all got to remember--it could have been our beautiful city profaned by such wicked evil acts. Even more then that chumpstick Benedictus was up to.

In the photoshop Garrosh thread (there are some pretty funny things in there) somone posted a picture of Garrosh on Varians throne. It wasnt until that moment that i really could see how much the reverse could offend horde players (cuz thinking of that scene kinda made me sick lol). I'm grateful that it isnt us, and sorry that your leader went crackers.

Im still hoping he gets stuffed and mounted in the palace though, not gonna lie.

[khalltusk]

Garrosh had major issues,

Here is timeline most of this will be from in game sources as i've not read ALL of the books.

TBC : He is in a depression, the mag'har are under threat from various sources and his last knowledge of his father leaves him to believe the guy was a monster and cursed his people (partially true).

Thrall turns up and shows him what his father did in his final moments. Garry is lifted by this.
End of TBC - He is shown to be unusually aggressive to the humans and when meeting anduin he appears to be out smarted by the youngster who says we can do trade for items rather than fight over them. Wrath pre event shows him even challenging his warchief because he thinks that rushing to northrend with out scouting it out/seeing how the alliance will handle it is the best option. - Clear fucking warning signs here guys, hes a hot head who thinks his way is the right way EVEN challenging his warchief.

Wrath : From the in game lore he states he will simply wipe the alliance off the map in northrend saurfang stating he'd sooner kill garry then let him drag the horde down this path - again this is a huge hint. ulduar and totc shows garry having a really large hatred for the alliance. some side short stories show a slightly different side to him (disciplining a leader who ambushed alliance forces who were engaged against the scourge)

So from TBC and wrath we see snippets about how this guy could be a good warrior but has major issues and also we get hints of his dark future.

Cata - he kills cairne in a duel to the death, decides to start attacking the alliance over resources and really ups the aggression. He has 1 or 2 redeeming points (stone talon) but in one of the novels he butchers a load of alliance troops who were ship wrecked and allows a few to leave to give a warning. He uses captured creatures from northrend against the alliance. Right here you can see he has already started to go down a dodgey road. Enslaving creatures using them as weapons and murdering shipwrecked survivors not a good start.

MOP and mop pre events he drops all pre-tenses about what he wants and pretty much goes for it. He also has many black rock clan members and one whos is number 1 guy, no doubt he is getting an ego boost from someone who has a like minded agenda. This means garry is being justified by someone close to him and can see no wrong in what he is doing.

Garry from the start was setup for either a bruising and coming out better for it or going down in flames.

[mysticx]

Don't know if it's done. But it is getting tired though.

It never should have been Orcs vs Humans. It should have been the Horde vs the Alliance.

Both factions would be hugely improved if they moved from "One guy who decides everything and the rest follows" to a council of leaders, that would allow for internal tensions that give the other races/leaders a chance to do something for a change.

I don't imagine many people will be happy with the half-hearted conclusion of the siege, the horde-races should be angry for the orcs starting the whole mess, and on alliance-side people might feel sidelined by uber-king Varian's "We're done, let's go home"-routine, not even in the oh-so-united alliance does everybody agree on everything!

[The Penguin]

Woah Garrosh has a kid?

Someone better send that boy to Nagrand before he dies from sha--me..

Well it could be all three. Sha. Me. Or Shame.


That said Orcs need to be made to obey the rest of the Horde races for a few expansions.

Essentially put in the Doghouse that the Forsaken were for Wrath and Cata.

[Trassk]

Heres my list of what I regard as all potential warchief candidates, and in order of those i most want to see get it, to the last being those i least want to see.


1 - Thrall
Obviously. This is his horde after all, the one he formed from nothing and races he brought into it, even the goblins are here because of him. He made a mistake with Garrosh, but he admits it, and even tries to rectify it. And honestly, I'd sooner have a warchief who knows how to learn from his mistakes then one who doesn't learn anything at all. plus, he knows how to treat the other races of the horde with respect.

2 - Saurfang.
Yes he's old, but really, which orc has more honor and lives as a reminders of learning from the mistakes of the past. He's honorable, fierce, hell of a fighter, and who else would you feel more like following into battle then he.

3 - Rexxar.
Rexxar is an awesome character with a lot of real honor, since he seems to think outside the box of standard orcs. The only two problems though, at that A: he's so much more of a wolverine type character, better as a loner then a leader, and B: he prefers to be in the wilds and be as wandering, and as awesome as this makes him, it doesn't give him room to be a political figure.

The following ones are those I'd not care for, but wouldn't rip into if they did become warchief.

4 - Vol'jin.
I like vol'jin, he's grown in the last year as a character, from really nothing much before this. He's got fury and does honestly care about what the horde represents, which given how looking at other troll empires and how xenophobic most trolls from those societies are, this makes vol'jin even more awesome that he sees the horde as family.
But, he isn't an orc, and can't ever represent the orcs as a leader. He also wasn't even remember until cataclysm, most forgot about him, because hes not really done anything that grand in the scheme of things, unlike other possible candidates.

5 - Baine.
Really, he's more just the younger version of cairne, but without the strong of will his father had. Now if Cairne was alive, he'd be higher on this list because Cairne really did represent the best of the horde. And there in is the problem with Baine, being how he just doesn't have that push his father did. He seems to just conform to other peoples rules when they are there, like how he conformed to Garrosh, and how he now conforms to vol'jins rebellion, he never does anything outside of this.
That said, he does have some potential to emulate his father, but outside of that, I can't see him having the balls to represent the entire horde.

and now the ones I least one to see get it.

6 - Lor'themar
much like Baine, lor'themar hasn't been regarded as anything until right at this moment. people couldn't even remember his name before mists, so its surprising just because he gets some development in 5.2 that people suddenly think he's warchief material. He does have a noble sense of protecting his own people, which I like, and is now showing he isn't prepared to stand in the background, he will fight on the front with his people. But he just doesn't fit into being the leader of such a diverse group as the horde. He is someone who is capable of working with them, but he doesn't really understand the rest, like the hardships many orcs and trolls and tauren face. Plus, him living in his sparkly city well the rest of the horde lives in barren lands and harsh terrain just doesn't make him seem capable of understanding the horde as a whole.

7 - Sylvanas
Do I need to say much about her? She's twisted, doesn't really care for any other race just wants them as backup to protect herself and maybe her people, but even they are there because she wants an army around her. She doesn't represent what the horde is, she's just tied to it for convenience, and with her plague bombing people, raising more into undeath, and generally blighting the land around her, shes more on her way to being the lich queen then a champion that represents the hordes salvation.

8 - gallywix
NOPE!
(seriously, I can't stand this little shit, I hope he dies and someone like boss Mida or sassy hardwrench becomes the goblin leader, that would make me very happy)

- - - Updated - - -

Woah Garrosh has a kid?

Someone better send that boy to Nagrand before he dies from sha--me..

Well it could be all three. Sha. Me. Or Shame.


That said Orcs need to be made to obey the rest of the Horde races for a few expansions.

Essentially put in the Doghouse that the Forsaken were for Wrath and Cata.

I feel sorry for Zaela, she survives the fall, only for 9 months later to give birth to a kid that bursts from his womb like a scene from aliens.

[GrinningMan]

Heres my list of what I regard as all potential warchief candidates, and in order of those i most want to see get it, to the last being those i least want to see.


1 - Thrall
Obviously. This is his horde after all, the one he formed from nothing and races he brought into it, even the goblins are here because of him. He made a mistake with Garrosh, but he admits it, and even tries to rectify it. And honestly, I'd sooner have a warchief who knows how to learn from his mistakes then one who doesn't learn anything at all. plus, he knows how to treat the other races of the horde with respect.

2 - Saurfang.
Yes he's old, but really, which orc has more honor and lives as a reminders of learning from the mistakes of the past. He's honorable, fierce, hell of a fighter, and who else would you feel more like following into battle then he.

3 - Rexxar.
Rexxar is an awesome character with a lot of real honor, since he seems to think outside the box of standard orcs. The only two problems though, at that A: he's so much more of a wolverine type character, better as a loner then a leader, and B: he prefers to be in the wilds and be as wandering, and as awesome as this makes him, it doesn't give him room to be a political figure.

The following ones are those I'd not care for, but wouldn't rip into if they did become warchief.

4 - Vol'jin.
I like vol'jin, he's grown in the last year as a character, from really nothing much before this. He's got fury and does honestly care about what the horde represents, which given how looking at other troll empires and how xenophobic most trolls from those societies are, this makes vol'jin even more awesome that he sees the horde as family.
But, he isn't an orc, and can't ever represent the orcs as a leader. He also wasn't even remember until cataclysm, most forgot about him, because hes not really done anything that grand in the scheme of things, unlike other possible candidates.

5 - Baine.
Really, he's more just the younger version of cairne, but without the strong of will his father had. Now if Cairne was alive, he'd be higher on this list because Cairne really did represent the best of the horde. And there in is the problem with Baine, being how he just doesn't have that push his father did. He seems to just conform to other peoples rules when they are there, like how he conformed to Garrosh, and how he now conforms to vol'jins rebellion, he never does anything outside of this.
That said, he does have some potential to emulate his father, but outside of that, I can't see him having the balls to represent the entire horde.

and now the ones I least one to see get it.

6 - Lor'themar
much like Baine, lor'themar hasn't been regarded as anything until right at this moment. people couldn't even remember his name before mists, so its surprising just because he gets some development in 5.2 that people suddenly think he's warchief material. He does have a noble sense of protecting his own people, which I like, and is now showing he isn't prepared to stand in the background, he will fight on the front with his people. But he just doesn't fit into being the leader of such a diverse group as the horde. He is someone who is capable of working with them, but he doesn't really understand the rest, like the hardships many orcs and trolls and tauren face. Plus, him living in his sparkly city well the rest of the horde lives in barren lands and harsh terrain just doesn't make him seem capable of understanding the horde as a whole.

7 - Sylvanas
Do I need to say much about her? She's twisted, doesn't really care for any other race just wants them as backup to protect herself and maybe her people, but even they are there because she wants an army around her. She doesn't represent what the horde is, she's just tied to it for convenience, and with her plague bombing people, raising more into undeath, and generally blighting the land around her, shes more on her way to being the lich queen then a champion that represents the hordes salvation.

8 - gallywix
NOPE!
(seriously, I can't stand this little shit, I hope he dies and someone like boss Mida or sassy hardwrench becomes the goblin leader, that would make me very happy)

- - - Updated - - -



I feel sorry for Zaela, she survives the fall, only for 9 months later to give birth to a kid that bursts from his womb like a scene from aliens.

See, everyone says Saurfang couldn't do it because he's too old, but Charlemagne ruled into his 70s and -still- went on crusades. I'm pretty sure Saurfang could handle it just as the King of the Franks.

[khalltusk]

Heres my list of what I regard as all potential warchief candidates, and in order of those i most want to see get it, to the last being those i least want to see.


1 - Thrall
Obviously. This is his horde after all, the one he formed from nothing and races he brought into it, even the goblins are here because of him. He made a mistake with Garrosh, but he admits it, and even tries to rectify it. And honestly, I'd sooner have a warchief who knows how to learn from his mistakes then one who doesn't learn anything at all. plus, he knows how to treat the other races of the horde with respect.

2 - Saurfang.
Yes he's old, but really, which orc has more honor and lives as a reminders of learning from the mistakes of the past. He's honorable, fierce, hell of a fighter, and who else would you feel more like following into battle then he.

3 - Rexxar.
Rexxar is an awesome character with a lot of real honor, since he seems to think outside the box of standard orcs. The only two problems though, at that A: he's so much more of a wolverine type character, better as a loner then a leader, and B: he prefers to be in the wilds and be as wandering, and as awesome as this makes him, it doesn't give him room to be a political figure.

The following ones are those I'd not care for, but wouldn't rip into if they did become warchief.

4 - Vol'jin.
I like vol'jin, he's grown in the last year as a character, from really nothing much before this. He's got fury and does honestly care about what the horde represents, which given how looking at other troll empires and how xenophobic most trolls from those societies are, this makes vol'jin even more awesome that he sees the horde as family.
But, he isn't an orc, and can't ever represent the orcs as a leader. He also wasn't even remember until cataclysm, most forgot about him, because hes not really done anything that grand in the scheme of things, unlike other possible candidates.

5 - Baine.
Really, he's more just the younger version of cairne, but without the strong of will his father had. Now if Cairne was alive, he'd be higher on this list because Cairne really did represent the best of the horde. And there in is the problem with Baine, being how he just doesn't have that push his father did. He seems to just conform to other peoples rules when they are there, like how he conformed to Garrosh, and how he now conforms to vol'jins rebellion, he never does anything outside of this.
That said, he does have some potential to emulate his father, but outside of that, I can't see him having the balls to represent the entire horde.

and now the ones I least one to see get it.

6 - Lor'themar
much like Baine, lor'themar hasn't been regarded as anything until right at this moment. people couldn't even remember his name before mists, so its surprising just because he gets some development in 5.2 that people suddenly think he's warchief material. He does have a noble sense of protecting his own people, which I like, and is now showing he isn't prepared to stand in the background, he will fight on the front with his people. But he just doesn't fit into being the leader of such a diverse group as the horde. He is someone who is capable of working with them, but he doesn't really understand the rest, like the hardships many orcs and trolls and tauren face. Plus, him living in his sparkly city well the rest of the horde lives in barren lands and harsh terrain just doesn't make him seem capable of understanding the horde as a whole.

7 - Sylvanas
Do I need to say much about her? She's twisted, doesn't really care for any other race just wants them as backup to protect herself and maybe her people, but even they are there because she wants an army around her. She doesn't represent what the horde is, she's just tied to it for convenience, and with her plague bombing people, raising more into undeath, and generally blighting the land around her, shes more on her way to being the lich queen then a champion that represents the hordes salvation.

8 - gallywix
NOPE!
(seriously, I can't stand this little shit, I hope he dies and someone like boss Mida or sassy hardwrench becomes the goblin leader, that would make me very happy)

- - - Updated - - -



I feel sorry for Zaela, she survives the fall, only for 9 months later to give birth to a kid that bursts from his womb like a scene from aliens.

With Thrall we can forgive him for putting Garry in charge. He had to do something about the situation the world was facing and he appointed who at the time seemed a sensible choice. Garry would be able to fight the enemies the horde would face in these trying times and with people like cairne etrigg voljin etc they could advise the warchief. But Thrall did not figure garry would be too PRIDEFUL and not listen to anyone but those who agree with him. Its been staring us in the face since Cata PRIDE, in what his father ultimately did and what he thinks he is doing.

Thrall should get the job back as hes rebuilt the horde once and this time he can do it right as garry has done us a favour by killing some burning blade members and with this siege we get rid of some of the worst Orcs around. So blessing possibly in disguise further down the line?

As for Baine, I am hoping he gets some further development. He has his own ideals but in game he does kind of come over a bit too "Ill follow you" where as in the books he pretty much stands his ground.

[Vensu24]

Orcs are the face of the Warcraft franchise and the one indispensable race, so yeah they'll still control the Horde.

[brirrspliff]

Only the baddies of the orcs remain and thrall.

The orcs will fall, and the Humans will rise. Orcs VS humans is done, The Humans have clearly won

you better embrace yourself for a HUGE disappointment.

[Deleted]

Because just like in real life USA are always looking for wars, they even had Bush as president for 8 years (who is a prime example of a puppet in other's hands), the whole nation is being ridiculed for being stupid but they somehow still maintain their image as the biggest economical and military power in this world.

This is how the Orcs will still control the horde after this because Blizzard can't just wipe them out, they are after all the face of this whole game. Just like people rather believe North Korea and Iran are huge threats to world security because they can't imagine how to live without iPhones and paying back those ridiculous loans from banks.

[Deleted]

In Vol'jin's words:

Vol'jin is a hypocrit, he is basically the person who destroyed the Horde just so he could win an argument. If the Horde is family, why does he threaten to kill his family on multiple occasions? Nice guy you got there.