[5.4] Demonology Warlock Guide

[Zinnin]

Added a 5.4 trinket list and tweaked the guide a little in preparation for 5.4

In case people don't read the warning in the OP I will say it again here: Black Blood of Yshaarj is NOT modeled right, so don't discount it 100% quite yet.

[Deleted]

with that list in mind for trinkets zinnin, you're saying to keep UVLS and not potentially go down the crit heavy route?

not that i mind this at all if it works out, will fit in nicely with a affliction mastery/haste build.

PS : also realize that things are not modeled right, just a general feeling for our stat weights is what im after.

[Zinnin]

with that list in mind for trinkets zinnin, you're saying to keep UVLS and not potentially go down the crit heavy route?

not that i mind this at all if it works out, will fit in nicely with a affliction mastery/haste build.

With the change to rPPM on PTR where it has a higher chance to proc on pull it has become pretty consistent. At this point I don't really think it has a place, however I do think there are a few fights where UVLS won't have a place but those situations aren't simmed easily so people might have to use their brain a bit.

[gahddo]

Any numbers you're getting for demo specifically are very off. I haven't updated the APL for demonology in months, mine is miles ahead of where the old one is. I'm going to attempt to accomplish the zillion things I need to put in this weekend so people don't rage this tuesday :3. Putting updating the APL near the top of the list along with the mostly functioning set bonuses.

[Mazda]

Any numbers you're getting for demo specifically are very off. I haven't updated the APL for demonology in months, mine is miles ahead of where the old one is. I'm going to attempt to accomplish the zillion things I need to put in this weekend so people don't rage this tuesday :3. Putting updating the APL near the top of the list along with the mostly functioning set bonuses.

Thanks gahddo. Appreciate the effort.

[gahddo]

I decided to make it easy for me and just COMPLETELY separate the unerring/normal action lists instead of trying to weave lines in and out...I should have the demo/destro APL updates tonight. Also going to add better trinket usage to the APL.

-update- Demo single target apl has been updated fully in the svn, won't be in the gui until the next release but it works for CLI. Working on updating all the profiles next...

[Zinnin]

If the new profiles are available ill download new svn mmm and run new lists tonight. Sorry for the random letters. Phone keybpard is crap.
l

[gahddo]

If the new profiles are available ill download new svn mmm and run new lists tonight. Sorry for the random letters. Phone keybpard is crap.
l

The only thing I still need to check with for demo is reacting to trinkets better, outside of the changes I need to put in come live patch tuesday.

[icecoldsir]

People who don't have any idea on how to REALLY play demo will often say that Affli is the best. The difference between top demo players and mid-level demo players, vs. top affli players and mid-level affli players is MUCH larger.

Play what you want. If you're better at demo, drive it like you stole it. If not, check out affli. I think i'm #15 on Pro Raiders (inb4 giant epeens arrive) for US 10 man demo

Im #3 Aff lock US lets be BFF's <3


OT: The Difference between Mid tier Demo Players and Top demo players compared to affy mid players and top players isnt that different tbh. If anything its harder to do well as affliction then as demo due to the skill cap being higher (having to watch more dots, procs, power gains for reapplying dots, etc) where as all demo really has to worry about is Dooming correctly when UVLS procs, HoG weaving and using Imp Swarm wisely.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the reply. Reading your words made me stress a bit less about this spec choice. I am definately not a top Demo player but I consider myself above the mid-level quite a bit.

And yeah I will be swapping to Affli whenever the fight really requires me to do it.

On that note do you have any input about what spec (between Demo or Affli) for each fight in NM SoO? I know Evrelia posted about it but I think that's about HCs, isn't it?

- - - Updated - - -

I was thinking to go by this for NM:
Protectors - possibly Demo, Affli only in case of dire need

Demo seemed pretty strong on protectors if UVLS decided to proc, quite a few attempts I wouldn't get reliable procs though. Affy might be better, maybe demo depending on how the heavy crit setup turns out to be.

[Xyronic]

Im #3 Aff lock US lets be BFF's <3


OT: The Difference between Mid tier Demo Players and Top demo players compared to affy mid players and top players isnt that different tbh. If anything its harder to do well as affliction then as demo due to the skill cap being higher (having to watch more dots, procs, power gains for reapplying dots, etc) where as all demo really has to worry about is Dooming correctly when UVLS procs, HoG weaving and using Imp Swarm wisely.





Demo seemed pretty strong on protectors if UVLS decided to proc, quite a few attempts I wouldn't get reliable procs though. Affy might be better, maybe demo depending on how the heavy crit setup turns out to be.

Typically demo is thought of as harder because of different fillers, and using fury wisely. Aff is pretty faceroll, tbh. I haven't played affliction on live in ages, randomly whipped it out last week, and got rank 5 on Iron Qon. Not a difficult spec.

[Mazda]

Im #3 Aff lock US lets be BFF's <3


OT: The Difference between Mid tier Demo Players and Top demo players compared to affy mid players and top players isnt that different tbh. If anything its harder to do well as affliction then as demo due to the skill cap being higher (having to watch more dots, procs, power gains for reapplying dots, etc) where as all demo really has to worry about is Dooming correctly when UVLS procs, HoG weaving and using Imp Swarm wisely.

I honestly have nothing against you, man. But, if you're the type of person who says "All demo really has to worry about is Dooming correctly when UVLS procs, HoG weaving and using Imp Swarm wisely." then you really don't understand the spec. I've said it on these forums before, and I'll say it again. Without question, Demonology is THE most versatile, dynamic, and subtly complicated spec in the game. (obviously my opinion, but I find that many high level players agree.) The only thing I've found that comes close in terms of complexity is high skill feral druid.

[Xploit]

Demo isn't as complex as you make it sound. Destro pre-5.4 required more thought process than Demo does, in my opinion. Warlock class in general though, regardless of spec, is probably the most complex simply due to the revamp and nature of the class in its current state. No other DPS class has it's rotational priority list change when you get a proc, exception maybe Festerblight DK slightly.

[Deleted]

Demo seemed pretty strong on protectors if UVLS decided to proc, quite a few attempts I wouldn't get reliable procs though. Affy might be better, maybe demo depending on how the heavy crit setup turns out to be.

Yeah my thoughts exactly but unless we are stuck at Protectors I will try my luck with the RNG gods and hope for UVLS. If on the other hand we are stuck on them and my dps is clearly holding us back I will just go affli and be done with it while progressing.

I am still very undecided about Immerseus and Norushen. Any suggestions?
Iron Jaggernaut I am leaning towards Affli, but again I would like to try Demo first and see how is goes.

Anyone attempting to figure out what kind of gearing post-UVLS (if we get to repalce it at all)?
With a AMP+BBoY I was thinking of mainly Crit/Mastery items + 4P or is that completely off?

[icecoldsir]

I honestly have nothing against you, man. But, if you're the type of person who says "All demo really has to worry about is Dooming correctly when UVLS procs, HoG weaving and using Imp Swarm wisely." then you really don't understand the spec. I've said it on these forums before, and I'll say it again. Without question, Demonology is THE most versatile, dynamic, and subtly complicated spec in the game. (obviously my opinion, but I find that many high level players agree.) The only thing I've found that comes close in terms of complexity is high skill feral druid.

Don't know where your getting this but honestly if you think playing demo is THAT complicated you're mistaken. As Xploits said above the Warlock class as a whole is probably the most complex, but imo as far as between specs their is little difference in skill required. Most people that say otherwise usually come off as just trying to make it seem like their spec is so much harder/complicated then everyone elses when that's usually not the case at all.

Yeah my thoughts exactly but unless we are stuck at Protectors I will try my luck with the RNG gods and hope for UVLS. If on the other hand we are stuck on them and my dps is clearly holding us back I will just go affli and be done with it while progressing.

I am still very undecided about Immerseus and Norushen. Any suggestions?

Not quite sure about Immerseus tbh, didnt get to test that boss that much. As for Norushen though I would definately say Affy, being able multi dot the adds in main room and keep good damage on boss while you have the buff is going to be amazing.

[Deleted]

Not quite sure about Immerseus tbh, didnt get to test that boss that much. As for Norushen though I would definately say Affy, being able multi dot the adds in main room and keep good damage on boss while you have the buff is going to be amazing.

Yeah I agree about Norushen.

About Immerseus what is making me think is P1 movement and P2 adds. While I know P1 will get shorter and shorter, so over time movement will be less, I am tempted to go Demo + AD instead of going Affli + KJC. P2 adds are another question mark because while I see Demo being effective enough with some burst on them, I am not sure if Affli dots are as effective given the adds health pool. This is all based on assumptions after having read and watched videos about the fight, I haven't tested it myself so might be all BS ><

Also thanks for the tips!

[Deleted]

Hey, what would you use on Durumu 25hc and Lei Shen 25HC, MF or KJC?

[Numidia]

Hey, what would you use on Durumu 25hc and Lei Shen 25HC, MF or KJC?

Mf on durumu for wall damage. Kjc on Lei Shen because the balls should be gripped/stunned and mf would be useless.

[Hellfury]

OT: The Difference between Mid tier Demo Players and Top demo players compared to affy mid players and top players isnt that different tbh. If anything its harder to do well as affliction then as demo due to the skill cap being higher (having to watch more dots, procs, power gains for reapplying dots, etc) where as all demo really has to worry about is Dooming correctly when UVLS procs, HoG weaving and using Imp Swarm wisely.

I agree that affliction requires more awareness cause of constant procs and harder to babysit dots, but if you for some reason one miss 1 proc and get a bad dot freshing, aff is more forgiving, while missing a uvls proc or imps not spawned at right time makes a huge diference in DPS for demo.

[Mazda]

Demo isn't as complex as you make it sound. Destro pre-5.4 required more thought process than Demo does, in my opinion. Warlock class in general though, regardless of spec, is probably the most complex simply due to the revamp and nature of the class in its current state. No other DPS class has it's rotational priority list change when you get a proc, exception maybe Festerblight DK slightly.

Meh, like I said, opinions all around. No big deal. I still think that demo has more if/then statements attached to it than both other specs combined, but that's just me. Really though, part of what I mean when I say demo is complex, versatile, and dynamic, is that changing ONE thing dramatically changes the way that you play the spec. Adaptability is the name of the game for demo. UVLS, Grims, AOE situations, 2-target, single target, etc. Destro and Aff do not change as much. Hell, even reforging could change in ways that have never openly been discussed here on a fight by fight basis. Destro reforges per fight quite frequently, but if you play Aff in ToT you never even touch your breakpoints.

I don't mean to get sappy, but I believe Demo's current iteration is quite a brilliant creation.

[Brusalk]

Meh, like I said, opinions all around. No big deal. I still think that demo has more if/then statements attached to it than both other specs combined, but that's just me. Really though, part of what I mean when I say demo is complex, versatile, and dynamic, is that changing ONE thing dramatically changes the way that you play the spec. Adaptability is the name of the game for demo. UVLS, Grims, AOE situations, 2-target, single target, etc. Destro and Aff do not change as much. Hell, even reforging could change in ways that have never openly been discussed here on a fight by fight basis. Destro reforges per fight quite frequently, but if you play Aff in ToT you never even touch your breakpoints.

I don't mean to get sappy, but I believe Demo's current iteration is quite a brilliant creation.

I agree, and it saddens me that it may get simplified in the expansion in the name of ability bloat.

I love the number of abilities that Demo has, and the fact that they all have a specific purpose. It's part of what makes the spec fun for me personally.