Jaina

[Deleted]

Yes, of course, let's completely disregard what she actually said in favor of what you claim she really meant because... why exactly? She wants the threat of the Horde ended, simple as that. I can't imagine why she would think that simply deposing Garrosh isn't enough to accomplish that, unless...

Why? Because the implications are obvious. Because in the past Jaina had always argued for peace and for diplomacy despite the border skirmishes for that very reason. I mean, seriously, how do you plan removing from power a group of people who are armed and very adept at combat, who are furthermore surrounded by an armed guard and by loyal adventurers? Do you think she expected them to come in quietly?

The threat of the Horde was ended. A horde led by Vol'jin, with Baine and Thrall and Lorthemar in the highest tier of leadership is a Horde that can be trusted enough not to risk more alliance lives. Jaina knows this. But her anger is so great that defeating the threat is not enough.

Thrall was the jackass that put Garrosh in charge in the first place. Thrall is the piece of scum that sat on his ass while Garrosh unleashed a brutal war across two continents. Thrall twiddled his thumbs when Theramore was nuked to oblivion even when Jaina, his friend and comrade in battle against the Legion, the woman who sacrificed her own father for him, BEGGED him to stop Garrosh. Thrall is the hypocritial scumbag who only got off said green backside when his own precious orcs were about to get a well-deserved retaliation. Thrall was the dirtbag who refused to punish orcs responsible for the brutal murder of Night Elf Sentinels when he was still Warchief. Don't you dare call him some sort of paragon of peace.

Thrall indeed bears guilt for all of Garrosh's actions. He acknowledges that much to Jaina, and it's the driving reason why he doesn't want to be trusted with power and defers to Vol'jin.
But while Thrall was still ruling, during Wrath, he wasn't completely free to rule. Garrosh was already gathering a very powerful faction of young orcs, and even young tauren, who wanted more aggressive leadership. If he wanted to keep the peace with the Alliance, he had to keep the peace inside the Horde too, and that meant appeasing Garrosh's faction, which is why that went unpunished.
Btw, Thrall wasn't twiddling his thumbs while Garrosh did his thing during Cataclysm, he was trying to keep the world from collapsing on the plane of earth. And by the time MoP happens, he was too ridden with guilt, and too isolated within the Horde to act.

Jaina's anger towards Thrall is just, but it's excessive. Thrall should have foreseen what Garrosh would do, but instead he trusted he could appeal to his better nature, and make a redeemed Grom out of him. And Thrall could not just up and go when Jaina asked him, the rift between the plane of Azeroth and the plane of earth still had to be healed.

And this is what angers me the most. Jaina was a person who didn't judge people on a basis of character, but on a basis of circumstances. She knew that very often what people did was because of their circumstances, not because they were intrinsically evil or callous. For this, she was the voice of reason, the only one in Azeroth.
I had a noble, wise, brave and courageous hero. And blizzard turned her into a generic "and then she went crazy".

[BreathTaker]

Jaina is gonna go apeshit during the trial and kill EVERYONE

You heard it from me!

And she wears WAY to much make-up, she kinda looks like a prostitute...

I like it

[7seti]

Btw, Thrall wasn't twiddling his thumbs while Garrosh did his thing during Cataclysm, he was trying to keep the world from collapsing on the plane of earth. And by the time MoP happens, he was too ridden with guilt, and too isolated within the Horde to act.

He showed up to save Orgrimmar. Pity he couldn't spare a thought for Theramore.

[Deleted]

Jaina is such a fucking hypocrite, if another person goes crazy and says Xy has to die because his people were killed she goes all: Oh man calm down, it's the fault of Xy not of his race, same shit happens to her and suddenly everyone of the Horde is marked for death in her eyes.

[Combatbutler]

He showed up to save Orgrimmar. Pity he couldn't spare a thought for Theramore.

To be fair the elements called him , because they din't want to flood the city.

[lakisa]

she just wanna be alliance Sylvanas

[Combatbutler]

she just wanna be alliance Sylvanas

Sylvanas and Jaina are hardly alike, except for an unhealthy thirst for vengeance.

[Lynneiah]

Jaina is such a fucking hypocrite, if another person goes crazy and says Xy has to die because his people were killed she goes all: Oh man calm down, it's the fault of Xy not of his race, same shit happens to her and suddenly everyone of the Horde is marked for death in her eyes.

Any examples?

[artemishunter1]

Yeah, this part of the cutscene is the only thing that bugged me.

I can understand Jaina being upset after what happened to Theramore. Very upset, in fact. But, the reason the rest of the Horde is even there for her to tell Varian to dismantle is because they wanted Garrosh dead for atrocities like Theramore as well.

I think Blizzard forgot that she let her own father get killed because she realized the Horde were not bad people. They're still not. Garrosh was, and that was the whole point of this raid. I feel like Jaina got killed off in Theramore and Lady Macbeth is disguising herself as Jaina.

This is not right. You are putting all the blame of horde atrocities on Garrosh. And making up sacrificial limb. The other horde leaders went along with Garosh, only turned when he turned against them.

[Lynneiah]

Id like to see Jaina going home to Kul Tiras and start rousing them to arm the fleet. If I recall correct they are neither a member of the alliance or very reconciliatory towards the horde. Especially since Rexxar and friends offed her dad (even if she didn't really put up a fuss over that at the time). Then you have raidboss -Jaina incoming.

However, I would rather see her as an independent ruler than a Lootbag.

I don't recall whether Kul'Tiras actually ever officially left the Alliance. Then again, I'm not sure one can argue that the Alliance of Lordaeron is still the same political entity as the modern Alliance.

[Deamon002]

If the Allies hadn't demanded unreasonable amount of reparations, WW II wouldn't have happened.

Which is why after smacking the Horde races down (the ones you don't make a deal with anyway) you help them get back on their feet. Extend trade opportunities based on actual mutual benefit rather than threats like the 'trade' between the night elves and orcs before Garrosh went off his meds.

There are plenty of things you can argue 'caused' WWII. The unreasonably harsh and humiliating terms of the Treaty of Versailles. The Great Depression. The Reichstags Fire. But one of them is definitely the way the Allies let Hitler get away with more and more crap, growing stronger and stronger, until it took the biggest war in history to put a stop to him.

We are talking about a dozen of cities of various sizes and thousands of people that need to be controlled, plenty of them know magic etc in a medieval setting, were it takes weeks to travel between the continents in great numbers. The Alliance was unable to contain the orcs alone for example, once they started to actually try to beak out of their camps, for a time the Alliance will be in control, but not in the long run.

So? Numbers don't mean much when you're better armed and hold a fortified position. A small garrison occupying a small castle can maintain control over a much larger population. It's been done in medieval Europe hundreds of times. Plenty of Alliance know magic, too, especially if they can convince the blood elves to sit it out, so that's not going to make that much of a difference.

And the orcs got lucky that the human kingdoms had drawn down their militaries after the Second War. They never faced an actual army before they ran away across the sea.

[JevtaSRB]

Jaina took the power of the thunder king, she took the powers he got by stomping a titan keeper... She may not know how to make a nuke size mana bomb but she has the components (focusing iris- it's also a lot more than just a part of the bomb)... She's going places (instances to be more precise).

[Krolikn]

Shes not evil...

[Deamon002]

The threat of the Horde was ended. A horde led by Vol'jin, with Baine and Thrall and Lorthemar in the highest tier of leadership is a Horde that can be trusted enough not to risk more alliance lives. Jaina knows this. But her anger is so great that defeating the threat is not enough.

And this is where you are wrong. The threat is in abeyance, not gone. You assume that because you think that the Horde threat is gone with Garrosh, everyone else will. Jaina doesn't, and neither do I. And she has plenty of good reasons to think so. You keep pretending everything that happened was Garrosh's fault, but let's not forget Thrall put him in charge in the first place because he was the sort of Warchief the orcs wanted. You think that's changed now that they've had a humiliating defeat in their own capital? Hell no. There'll be plenty of orcs absolutely livid who will want revenge, reclaim what they laughably refer to as their 'honor', etc. Fertile ground for Garrosh 2.0.

Thrall indeed bears guilt for all of Garrosh's actions. He acknowledges that much to Jaina, and it's the driving reason why he doesn't want to be trusted with power and defers to Vol'jin.
But while Thrall was still ruling, during Wrath, he wasn't completely free to rule. Garrosh was already gathering a very powerful faction of young orcs, and even young tauren, who wanted more aggressive leadership. If he wanted to keep the peace with the Alliance, he had to keep the peace inside the Horde too, and that meant appeasing Garrosh's faction, which is why that went unpunished.
Btw, Thrall wasn't twiddling his thumbs while Garrosh did his thing during Cataclysm, he was trying to keep the world from collapsing on the plane of earth. And by the time MoP happens, he was too ridden with guilt, and too isolated within the Horde to act.

How convenient. So he 'couldn't' do anything that whole time, but we're supposed to trust him and his cronies to somehow pull it off now, after so much more blood has been spilled? He failed, miserably, the last time.

Jaina's anger towards Thrall is just, but it's excessive. Thrall should have foreseen what Garrosh would do, but instead he trusted he could appeal to his better nature, and make a redeemed Grom out of him. And Thrall could not just up and go when Jaina asked him, the rift between the plane of Azeroth and the plane of earth still had to be healed.

But mere days later he could spare the attention to protect his precious Orgrimmar from a vengeful Jaina? Pretty sure that rift didn't just up and leave then. Sure, the Elements asked him to, but he still had to stop the rift healing to do it.

And this is what angers me the most. Jaina was a person who didn't judge people on a basis of character, but on a basis of circumstances. She knew that very often what people did was because of their circumstances, not because they were intrinsically evil or callous. For this, she was the voice of reason, the only one in Azeroth.
I had a noble, wise, brave and courageous hero. And blizzard turned her into a generic "and then she went crazy".

She's not crazy, just disillusioned. Her trust has been betrayed once too often, and she'll waste none of it on those undeserving anymore.

[Deleted]

To be fair the elements called him , because they din't want to flood the city.

but not when dark shamans twisted fire elementals just 1 week before ?

[announced]

bitches be crazy.. i think she lost it after theramore personally. now shes the alliance version of Sylvanas.. going to use magic to blow up some horde base just like the mana bomb did.

[Lynneiah]

bitches be crazy.. i think she lost it after theramore personally. now shes the alliance version of Sylvanas.. going to use magic to blow up some horde base just like the mana bomb did.

No crater, though, because we wouldn't want to change our precious old world.

[Trollhammer]

My theory Mana Bomb drew "something" from the twisting nether which is now residing in Jaina..

[Skronk]

you know, i kinda understand her reactions tbh. She put her trust in the horde and thrall, even though she was within her rights to to completely mistrust and despise the horde given its past and she was betrayed. Sure its not as simple as that but that is easy to say when you have the luxery of being impartial and you are not the one in her shoes.

[Lynneiah]

you know, i kinda understand her reactions tbh. She put her trust in the horde and thrall, even though she was within her rights to to completely mistrust and despise the horde given its past and she was betrayed. Sure its not as simple as that but that is easy to say when you have the luxery of being impartial and you are not the one in her shoes.

I still remember that scene in WCIII where she was told she had to work together with the Horde, and her first reaction was 'Unite with them?! Are you mad?!'