Thoughts on the new Warchief

[Trassk]

Boring choice, uninspired, no real qualifications (inb4 "he lead the rebellion," not true Lor'themar & Baine did much more for the rebellion than Vol'jin did he was knocked out for half the expansion). My choice would have been Varrok Saurfang, he should have been Warchief back in Cataclysm too. He's the best choice by far in terms of leadership, experience, and faction relations (everyone respects Saurfang). Vol'jin is only a slight step-up from Garrosh, he's not exactly an honorable character he planned on stabbing the Warchief in the back. Oh well, what can we expect from Blizzard nowadays, after the Diablo 3 fiasco and the horribad cliched plot of Heart of Swarm (still loved the expansion though) I wasn't expecting much out of 5.4. This patch wont get me to resub in fact its making damn sure that I stay out of WoW. Only thing that could bring me back is if Azshara stars in the next expansion.

you know, it seems me, you and wldberry have that in common. I hoped Thrall to return as the hordes leader, but held myself in reserve thinking it likely wouldn't be. But I at least hoped, as an ideal of having a charadter to represent the orcs in a far better light, they would choose a character who does that, as you say, Saurfang would have been the best choice after Thrall to me, and it should have been him.
But no, blizzard had to go for the 'shock tactic CHARGE CAN BE GOOD bullshit and fuck over the story forever.

nice work blizzard. you want some butter for that butt rapping you have the orcs?

[babo7000]

Anyone else get the feeling Vol'Jin is a temp Warchief until a new Orc hero proves him/herself (re: Blizzard writes a new character) and takes the mantle? The Orcs are pretty weak atm, so it makes sense that they wouldn't be in charge. But they breed like rabbits and are natural born leaders, when there numbers increase again it will be hard for a Troll to lead them.

Also, in agreeing with Trassk, Warcraft is Orc vs Human. When I see an angry human and an angry Orc face to face only inches from each other, it gets me pumped. Seeing a Troll in the Orcs place doesn't seem nearly as menacing.

[Trassk]

Anyone else get the feeling Vol'Jin is a temp Warchief until a new Orc hero proves him/herself (re: Blizzard writes a new character) and takes the mantle? The Orcs are pretty weak atm, so it makes sense that they wouldn't be in charge. But they breed like rabbits and are natural born leaders, when there numbers increase again it will be hard for a Troll to lead them.

Also, in agreeing with Trassk, Warcraft is Orc vs Human. When I see an angry human and an angry Orc face to face only inches from each other, it gets me pumped. Seeing a Troll in the Orcs place doesn't seem nearly as menacing.

NOPE, blizzard made a big skirty speech about it and forced the idea of change into this vomit bag. Apparently change is good because to them everyone likes it.

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Meh, I've got it all figured out. We didn't kill Garrosh, so he'll just break free, then kill this usurper Warchief in a 1v1 and then Saurfang steps in and beats up Garrosh once and for all and suddenly we have Warchief Saurfang and everybody lives happily ever after!

You know what the sad thing in all this is.. I use to like vol'jin, i really did, but right now I can't even look at him without thinking how blizzard poked a knife in every orcs back with him. And.. well this feels really bad, part of me wants to see what you just said, seeing Garrosh break free, beat the shit out of vol'jin, and then have saurfang come in, kill garrosh, and take the mantle, with vol'jin quivering on the floor saying he wasn't prepared for it.
I hate the fact I think this about vol'jin, you've no idea, but I hold blizzard responsible for that now.

[Avar ize]

I hated Garrosh, but now we get a even bigger douche as Warchief...
I miss Garrosh already

[Trassk]

I hated Garrosh, but now we get a even bigger douche as Warchief...
I miss Garrosh already

You know weird as this might be to hear, as I said to wildberry in private, but given this situation, despite how I've hated Garrosh since wrath days and what he was doing, and thats not changed.. part of me misses cataclysm, even with him being made warchief, because despite him being an asshole, I didn't feel a lack of hope for the story getting better back then, and something good coming from it.
This outcome just snuffed that hope.

[babo7000]

NOPE, blizzard made a big skirty speech about it and forced the idea of change into this vomit bag. Apparently change is good because to them everyone likes it.

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You know what the sad thing in all this is.. I use to like vol'jin, i really did, but right now I can't even look at him without thinking how blizzard poked a knife in every orcs back with him. And.. well this feels really bad, part of me wants to see what you just said, seeing Garrosh break free, beat the shit out of vol'jin, and then have saurfang come in, kill him, and take the mantle, with vol'jin quivering on the floor saying he wasn't prepared for it.
I hate the fact I think this about vol'jin, you've no idea, but I hold blizzard responsible for that now.

Oh wow that's depressing.

They really needa stop listening to us fans. Vol'Jin's Warchief because when Metzen announced Thrall would be Warchief early last year, everyone was bitching and Vol'Jin, the only other Horde leader at the time with an ounce of development, was naturally becoming a fan favourite. But the guy is not suited for Warchief. He's more inactive that pre-Cata Thrall, and is at his core a coward (threaten Garrosh early, when you realize your suspicions are true you are to afraid to speak up to him). Blizzard just choose him because they listened to the community, who most of the time can't grasp the concept of a story.

[justandulas]

Awful choice. If my sub wasnt already expiring (grand theft auto, u all understand) I'd cancel over it. It's a disgrace to the horde I joined long ago. Some of us went horde because we want the savage nature of the horde. To conquer all, at any cost. That is the original horde and the one I joined.

That being said, its just a game. If blizz wanted to put a gnome in charge of both factions, they could. Besides, this may open the door for the long awaited 3rd faction. Maybe the orcs, nd undead refuse to follow this new war chief and an alliance race or two leaves and creates a third faction. Who knows, maybe there is method to this madness.

[Trassk]

Oh wow that's depressing.

They really needa stop listening to us fans. Vol'Jin's Warchief because when Metzen announced Thrall would be Warchief early last year, everyone was bitching and Vol'Jin, the only other Horde leader at the time with an ounce of development, was naturally becoming a fan favourite. But the guy is not suited for Warchief. He's more inactive that pre-Cata Thrall, and is at his core a coward (threaten Garrosh early, when you realize your suspicions are true you are to afraid to speak up to him). Blizzard just choose him because they listened to the community, who most of the time can't grasp the concept of a story.

problem is, if blizzard listens to the community and makes these kind of choices.. i really have no hope left now for the story. The fact they made me resent a character I use to like, vol'jin, and can't even look at my troll characters the same way again, as you say, its fucking depressing..
I mean, I use to like Jaina, I even brought the novel tides of war because I still liked her back then. but seeing her in 5.4 ending, it just screams out, thats not Jaina, not anymore, she died in theramore.

So, blizzard not only killed off one of the things the horde meant something to me, but also the one alliance leader I admired. nice.

[Deleted]

I'm Horde and I think it's one of the better options. I don't think he is the best Warchief, but he beats Sylvanas (hate her and her people, psycho bitch shouldn't even be in the Horde), Lor'Themar (nobody before 5.2 and a Belf who wanted to join the Alliance in that same 5.2), Gallywix (aka Gallywho?) and Thrall (been there, done that).
Only Baine and the Tauren people would be a better idea but Baine lacks the experience.

For those who think Saurfang could have been an option; considering his age he would be nothing but a seatwarmer for the Warchief after him.

Trolls are long standing members of the Horde and the first to join on the way from the Old Horde (WC1 & WC2) to the New Horde under Thrall. I know some want back to the bloodthirsty ways and days of Blackhand and Doomhammer, days Garrosh brought back to some extent, but that's a thing of the past and Garrosh was nothing but an Orcish spasm. The Horde, as in the player faction, will never go back to those ways (those that want that could dust off a copy of the warhammer mmo) and Vol'Jin as Warchief clearly marks that departure.

[Zulkhan]

I hate this argument, I really do.
I assume that the Night Elves shouldn't govern themselves after Azshara's Tomfoolery, Prince Arthas? I guess all humans are walking on thin ice now, Kael'thas tried to summon the Burning Legion? I guess that disqualifies Blood Elves from Leadership. The Gurubashi are trying to summon their Blood Guard, impeach all trolls now please.
Blanket statements are never a good thing...

Stubborness is not a good thing either, and what you wrote there is nonsense.

First, I never said we have to butcher all the orcs, in fact is people like you that is making an utter, damn tragedy about something that is not remotely similar with "shame on all orcs", it's just a change of leadership, and the simple fact that the leader is not an orc is becoming a drama of embarassing levels.

I'm just saying that a drastic change of command after some really drastic and terrible events (last but not least the recover and full usage of an Old God's heart) triggered by the son of Grom and many orcs that decided to follow him blindly is more than needed. This doesn't mean that orcs will be forced to live in shitty parts of Orgrimmar like the previous Warchief did for no reasons but bias and racism, they will just be EQUAL, like any other race. And it's fresh air after the shitty treatment that the non-orc races of the Horde received for too much time, crushed by the judgement of a bunch of morons beliving in "Orc supremacy".

Second, you made a whole of awful comparisons with races that were just rulers of themselves, and, you know, had little choices but to forgive themselves and going forward. The Horde, not the one in Draenor from which Garrosh had a lot of shitty inspirations, but the one in Azeroth, is more than orcs, and this was true by the day they began to build Orgrimmar, becoming more and more a relevant aspect over time. You know, the orcs weren't just leading themselves, and the horrible decisions that this orcish government did has been forcibly imposed not only to all the orcs, but to any other race allied with them aswell.

Plus, the orcs that followed Garrosh weren't corrupted or insane, they simply trusted the wrong person and made the worst decisions all by themselves. Garrosh did all that he did all by himself. The Dragonmaw, the Warsong, the Blackrock, the Mag'har, so many of them followed Garrosh in his downfall. And they did so just for pride. Leaving the reins of the Horde to someone else for a while and proving that the good orcs can fiercely fight for the Horde even in a little more "humbled" position would be the truest and greatest prove that they surely understood their lesson.

Vol'jin isn't even that great of a leader, there were plenty of others in the Horde with a far better track record.

Like that huge list of names put there because they are orcs more than any kind of well-known skills in leadership?

Well, running around the circle is pointless, as the poster above me said, let's wait and see how this will work instead of bitching and acting like the one that bandage his head before that head is effectively broken.

I look at your avatar, then i look at what you write, and for however reserved it is, its obvious your don't give a shit how this act crushes every aspect of the orcs from the story. I'm not kidding, it really does, you don't get what it feels like seeing your favourite race, whos been the figurehead of the horde for over a decade, suddenly reduced to this, you can't understand that, because right now all your thinking is 'a troll is in charge, cool'.

You're looking at my avatar, and I'm looking at yours. Don't pretend to be in a different position, because you aren't. I'm not saying that having a troll as Warchief is cool, I'm saying that is not a drama, a tragedy, the end of the world, which is a completely different thing. It's just you pretending it to be so, that now the Horde is fucked because the Warchief is not an orc. And still, regardless of your personal, respectable likings, having an orc Warchief at all costs all the time "because" is NOT a value that has been destroyed, it's just an occurence happened for obvious circumstances. The same reason for which now Vol'jin is the Warchief of the Horde. At least for now.

[Wildberry]

Well, in fact I would have personally liked Baine a lot (Taurens are my favourite Horde race), and have respect for Saurfang or Eitrigg.
Thrall is another question, I think that most Alliance players have mixed feelings about him. He is a respectable Orc, but his forced "neutral but not so much" status in Cataclysm have made him disliked by many.
The others you mentioned are not Warchief material tbh.

Not every character on that list was supposed to be Warchief material, the point was that working with the Alliance wasn't a rare trait among members of the Horde.

I didn't say that Orcs hadn't great leaders in the past, but that more often than not they chose to follow disastrous paths of war and lust for power.
Blackhand, Ner'zhul, Garrosh, ... Thrall has pretty much been the only sane Warchief since that title was created.

Blackhand and Garrosh were definitely not fit to be Warchief, Doomhammer, and even Ner'zhul to an extent, may have done some unsavory things during their reigns, but their main drive was the well being of their people. If you broaden the perspective from Warchief to Leadership positions at all, you'll find that by now, the "Bad Orcs" are a minority.

you know, it seems me, you and wldberry have that in common. I hoped Thrall to return as the hordes leader, but held myself in reserve thinking it likely wouldn't be. But I at least hoped, as an ideal of having a charadter to represent the orcs in a far better light, they would choose a character who does that, as you say, Saurfang would have been the best choice after Thrall to me, and it should have been him.

Oh don't get me wrong, I like Thrall, the only two reasons I never publicly listed him as my #1 pick for Warchief, was because A: it paints the Orcs as needing a human raised leader to keep them in check. B: The only counter-argument to Warchief Thrall is "LolGaryStu" and "Metzen's Avatar", there's enough stupidity on these forums without those "arguments" being thrown into the mix. In an ideal world, I had secretly hoped that Thrall would return as the spiritual leader of the Orcs, much like Ner'zhul before the "Rise of the Horde", just without as much political power, and that Saurfang would assume the mantle of Warchief, that didn't happen...

Meh, I've got it all figured out. We didn't kill Garrosh, so he'll just break free, then kill this usurper Warchief in a 1v1 and then Saurfang steps in and beats up Garrosh once and for all and suddenly we have Warchief Saurfang and everybody lives happily ever after!

The Hellscream family name would be restored to its former glory, as would the Horde!

I'm Horde and I think it's one of the better options. I don't think he is the best Warchief, but he beats Sylvanas (hate her and her people, psycho bitch shouldn't even be in the Horde), Lor'Themar (nobody before 5.2 and a Belf who wanted to join the Alliance in that same 5.2), Gallywix (aka Gallywho?) and Thrall (been there, done that).
Only Baine and the Tauren people would be a better idea but Baine lacks the experience.

Sylvanas, no.
Baine, he lacked experience, sure, but I don't think he'd necessarily make a terrible leader, he wouldn't be my top pick, but I'd have him over Vol'jin.
Lor'themar was a nobody, but I do feel, regardless of how much I loathe the idea, that he would be better for Warchief than Vol'jin, after all, he only tried to leave the Horde once...
Thrall, since when is "been there done that" a good argument? Last time I checked the Horde did quite well under Thrall.

For those who think Saurfang could have been an option; considering his age he would be nothing but a seatwarmer for the Warchief after him.

There seems to be this misconception that Human Lifespans=Orc Lifespans. Let's consider for a moment that Drek'thar was older than most of the Orcs during the Rise of the Horde, he was still fighting for his people in Alterac until VERY recently. Saurfang might have been around the block a few times, but to imply that he is on Death's door is an overstatement. Not to mention, how long does your average Warchief rule? I'm fairly certain that if you discount Doomhammer's "inactive" time, Saurfang could outlast any of the other's. His credentials also, forgive the forced meme, cleaved everyone else's in two.

Trolls are long standing members of the Horde and the first to join on the way from the Old Horde (WC1 & WC2) to the New Horde under Thrall. I know some want back to the bloodthirsty ways and days of Blackhand and Doomhammer, days Garrosh brought back to some extent, but that's a thing of the past and Garrosh was nothing but an Orcish spasm. The Horde, as in the player faction, will never go back to those ways (those that want that could dust off a copy of the warhammer mmo) and Vol'Jin as Warchief clearly marks that departure.

I think you need to go read Tides of Darkness again. Forest Trolls didn't join the Horde until WCII (An offer was made during the First War, they declined.) Forest Trolls are a completely seperate entity from Jungle Trolls. The Darkspear Tribe Joined the Horde after Thrall saved them from utter extinction (Murlocs, Sea Witches and Alliance, oh my!). Garrosh didn't bring back the Doomhammer days by the way, he brought back the Blackhand days. Doomhammer may not have been a saint, but him waging the Second War was reasonable, and he did so for his people, Garrosh and Blackhand simply conquered. Also, Thrall as Warchief clearly marked that departure.

[Bulls191]

I have to ask the people who don't like the choice... Who on earth did you think it would be, they built Vol'jin up for becoming the Warchief.. Did you just expect them to pick say Saurfang or others who have had barely any face time this expansion.. In the end it was the choice that made the most sense.

[Deleted]

There seems to be this misconception that Human Lifespans=Orc Lifespans. Let's consider for a moment that Drek'thar was older than most of the Orcs during the Rise of the Horde, he was still fighting for his people in Alterac until VERY recently. Saurfang might have been around the block a few times, but to imply that he is on Death's door is an overstatement. Not to mention, how long does your average Warchief rule? I'm fairly certain that if you discount Doomhammer's "inactive" time, Saurfang could outlast any of the other's. His credentials also, forgive the forced meme, cleaved everyone else's in two.

Considering the fact the only source on orc lifespans we have is the RPG and that isn't exactly canon it is hard to see whether Drek'Thar is the norm or the exception. Just for completeness, the RPG lists orc's maximum at as similar to humans.

I think you need to go read Tides of Darkness again. Forest Trolls didn't join the Horde until WCII (An offer was made during the First War, they declined.) Forest Trolls are a completely seperate entity from Jungle Trolls. The Darkspear Tribe Joined the Horde after Thrall saved them from utter extinction (Murlocs, Sea Witches and Alliance, oh my!). Garrosh didn't bring back the Doomhammer days by the way, he brought back the Blackhand days. Doomhammer may not have been a saint, but him waging the Second War was reasonable, and he did so for his people, Garrosh and Blackhand simply conquered. Also, Thrall as Warchief clearly marked that departure.

I guess I wasn't clear, what I meant is that the joining of the (Darkspear) Trolls was the first addition to the Horde while it was being transformed from the Old Horde into the New Horde, so under Thrall. As for the idea that Doomhammer was so much better than Blackhand I tend to disagree. The biggest difference is that Doomhammer was smart enough to realize the Orcs were being played and wanted to out of that. basically he was a smarter, better Blackhand.

As for Thrall marking the transition from Old to New Horde, I disagree. Thrall reinvented the Old Horde but it was still Orcs and their assorted friends. He redid the thing and while we call it the New Horde it was more like Old Horde 2.0 than a truly New Horde.

[madokbro]

Do you understand what this is?

This is the generic "green barbarians who invade shit" orc crap. Even with the improvements made to give them some character and diversity, this "Orc" has stopped being interesting and fresh ten years ago. Warcraft orcs are nothing like their Warhammer 40K equivalent(which is far more characteristic while keeping the fantasy orc identity intact-ish), there is simply nothing charming about them, there never was.

As I've said before, I would take pothead blue giants everyday instead of this same old shit. Fun, fresh idea behind them are at least enough for Vol'jin to be Horde's poster boy.

[Wildberry]

I have to ask the people who don't like the choice... Who on earth did you think it would be, they built Vol'jin up for becoming the Warchief.. Did you just expect them to pick say Saurfang or others who have had barely any face time this expansion.. In the end it was the choice that made the most sense.

Well they did say it was going to be unexpected. Not to mention, Saurfang may not have popped up much this expansion but the guy has a history dating back to Pre-WCI, there were options that had quite a bit of back story without a huge amount of facetime this expansion. Also, God forbid I expect someone who's actually a capable leader.

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This is the generic "green barbarians who invade shit" orc crap. Even with the improvements made to give them some character and diversity, this "Orc" has stopped being interesting and fresh ten years ago.

As I've said before, I would take pothead blue giants everyday instead of this same old shit. Fun, fresh idea behind them are at least enough for Vol'jin to be Horde's poster boy.

Do you understand what a Troll is? It is literally the Orcish counterpart to an Elf, leaner, more agile, most often found in forested regions (When they were first introduced) Trolls aren't quite the pinnacle of creativity and I would argue that Blizzard's spin on Orcs is much more interesting that Orc-Elves.

Considering the fact the only source on orc lifespans we have is the RPG and that isn't exactly canon it is hard to see whether Drek'Thar is the norm or the exception. Just for completeness, the RPG lists orc's maximum at as similar to humans.

The RPG isn't canon, you said it yourself, so that final statement is completely irrelevant and quite honestly a waste of time, for both of us. Also, I think it's fairly safe to assume that, until presented otherwise, Drek'thar is the norm, I mean, look at Ner'zhul even, the guy was considered "Old" in Rise of the Horde, yet he was still alive and well after the Second War ended, and he didn't die due to Old Age...

I guess I wasn't clear, what I meant is that the joining of the (Darkspear) Trolls was the first addition to the Horde while it was being transformed from the Old Horde into the New Horde, so under Thrall. As for the idea that Doomhammer was so much better than Blackhand I tend to disagree. The biggest difference is that Doomhammer was smart enough to realize the Orcs were being played and wanted to out of that. basically he was a smarter, better Blackhand.

Ah, fair enough, pardon the reading comprehension (Or lack of, rather), forum crusading often leads to lack of sleep.

It's true that the Darkspear were the first to join Thrall's Horde, but what did they actually contribute? Vol'jin and a good part of his tribe stayed on their Isles during the Third War, apparently trying to deal with the Sea Witch is much more important than a battle that would decide the fate of Azeroth. That wasn't the only time the Darkspear were too busy focusing on small problems to actively help the Horde in the grand scheme of things (Northrend anyone? Their lack of support their was the main reason Garrosh held any contempt for the Trolls...)

In regards to the Doomhammer Blackhand argument, it's commonly accepted that he was a "big bad guy", but think about it for a moment...Doomhammer realized the true extent of what had happened on Draenor, he realized the planet is dying, that Blackhand is a pupper leader, that the Shadow Council severed ties with the elements in favor of Dark Magics, his people are hopped up on Demon Blood AND they're in the middle of a war. His intentions were always noble, he only wanted what was best for the Orcs. After taking control of the Horde from both Blackhand and the Shadow Council, he finishes the First War and hears of Human survivors fleeing North. Obviously they were going to get help, Doomhammer couldn't really take his people to a dying world and hope that the Alliance wouldn't come through the portal could he? He did what any one in that position would do, strengthened the Horde and prepared them for another War, Destroy the Enemy before they come to Destroy you, in a sense... His overall goal was to reestablish his peoples' Old ways. Blackhand however, (And Garrosh) conquered for the sake of it, Blackhand, because Gul'dan told him to, Garrosh, to build a legacy to rival that of his father's, Grom broke the chains from the Demons, Garrosh had hoped to break the "Chains" of the Alliance.

As for Thrall marking the transition from Old to New Horde, I disagree. Thrall reinvented the Old Horde but it was still Orcs and their assorted friends. He redid the thing and while we call it the New Horde it was more like Old Horde 2.0 than a truly New Horde.

The Old Horde stopped existing completely after the Horde of Draenor failed, Thrall's Horde was completely different, he reestablished his peoples' links to the elements and wasn't starting wars of aggression, justified or not.

[Trassk]

What people don't understand about this is, is that since WC3, the orcs have lead the horde, by example.

Since WC3, and how blizzard reinvented the orcs in the story, gave them back honor, made them into something more then a generic barbarian race, it set an example that despite the alliance claiming them to be monsters, it showned in the game they were not this.

When I first began playing wow years ago, and saw examples in lore, like going to the barrens and seeing orcs living on farms with there children and families there, or orcs who faught to defend there homes instead of just trying to conquer, I understood then what blizzard had done, they made orcs into a people, not just a concept. and because of this, they lead the example to all others, a race that was condemned years ago, overcame there dark past, found there freedom, and now fight to defend there home and families.
This is the example of what orcs are, the example of what makes the horde what it is. This is why the subvertion that happened in cata and mists because of Garrosh really tarnessed the orcs as a race in wows story.. but I held out hope, that we'd see Garrosh's example die out, and the orcs who showed the best of there kind would lead the horde by example again.

To take that way from the story, after the orcs long history, and paint another race as the defacto race of the horde.. you might as well kill off all the orcs in warcraft for that reason, because if they can't honor the example orcs had to the rest of the horde, orcs who sort to overcome there dark past and fight to defend there home and famlily, as the example of the horde, then whats the point any of it.

Trolls in the horde as such a miniscule part of the hordes backstory, just because vol'jin lead a rebellion for a brief time, doesn't give the right to have the story subverted into this revamp.

Hell, the trolls of the darkspear were once no better then the rest of the troll nations, savage and dark. You know what changed them to stop following that example? Thrall and his orcs, who saved them. The orcs were the example to the darkspears. The orcs since then have been the example to the rest of the horde, upholding honor and brotherhood, which is what the horde needs to be about.

What they did to the orcs since garrosh came into power is the worst backpedaling in the story there could be, but having vol'jjin take power now, after everything the orcs have been though, it undermines any chance of the orcs growing as a race again.

[Nellyel]

Are you guys forgetting the alliance had no king for 2 expansions and vanilla?

[Trassk]

Do you understand what this is?

This is the generic "green barbarians who invade shit" orc crap. Even with the improvements made to give them some character and diversity, this "Orc" has stopped being interesting and fresh ten years ago. Warcraft orcs are nothing like their Warhammer 40K equivalent(which is far more characteristic while keeping the fantasy orc identity intact-ish), there is simply nothing charming about them, there never was.

As I've said before, I would take pothead blue giants everyday instead of this same old shit. Fun, fresh idea behind them are at least enough for Vol'jin to be Horde's poster boy.

so what your saying is not what makes good sense to the story, you just want your personal hatred for the orcs to have some sense of satisfaction.

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Are you guys forgetting the alliance had no king for 2 expansions and vanilla?

they had an absent king, he was set to return, which he did.

[Xecks]

i picked im alliance and i like it.
i like him . so many possibilities. gl with your new wc guys . maybe now alliance will get a good story!

[madokbro]

Do you understand what a Troll is? It is literally the Orcish counterpart to an Elf, leaner, more agile, most often found in forested regions (When they were first introduced) Trolls aren't quite the pinnacle of creativity and I would argue that Blizzard's spin on Orcs is much more interesting that Orc-Elves.

Don't you think you are forcing it? Elves being depicted as cannibalistic forest primitives, with a Jamaican influence? Well, I guess that's where the term high Elf comes from.
"Creative" parts of the Warcraft story is restricted to elements such as the conflict between Magic and Technology, interactions between severely different sentient species and so on. Generic fantasy part, Orcs, Trolls, Humans and Elves, that was the majority of the playerbase felt familiar with, and I never said any of that was strong or creative story making.

However, it does not take a geek to figure out between the giant gap between Trolls and Orcs of Azeroth. As I 've said before, the whole concept of a pothead blue savage(I've not known anyone to not recognize the idea at least fresh and entertaining) being the face of an organization that is essential to both gameplay and lore, is way better than the generic "orc" that haunted fantasy literature since Tolkien, I mean come on.