Thoughts on the new Warchief

[Trassk]

Oh come on, surely you can see that this is a ridiculous thing to say. Just because someone plays mainly one faction doesn't mean they aren't invested in the whole storyline for both factions, or that their opinion is irrelevant, think about what you are saying...

so, you think its ridiculous for someone to claim a person isn't invested in an aspect of the story so they base there judgement of the situation on that (such as saying they dont' like orcs or play them so think its cool a non-orc warchief is now in charge).. and yet when someone is invested in an aspect of the story they liked to much, that it makes them feel let down and betrayed by the developers when they fuck it up, thats irrelevent? (such as orc fans seeing orcs reduced to cannon fodder bad guys, then then having there place in the horde pissed on).

There are those who take that sense of what we like in the story seriously, its what drew us to the game, our characters, lore characters we like, and what, in many cases, kept us playing. So its not irrelevant for someone who feels pissed off at the developers for changing something so sudden and dramatically, that they feel that way about it.

[Wildberry]

I have horde toons too. Why does me liking the draenei mean i can't have an opinion on the story?

orcs have fucked up leading the horde. Garrosh only got as far as he did because of the HUGE support he had from the orcs, right from the start and right to the end. Its called the Darkspear rebellion for a reason, not the orc rebellion.

even in the rebellion, we had TWO orcs who opposed him. 3 with eitrigg.

it's just sad. How many redemptions do the Orcs need? When will they learn their lesson?

Because it's a Horde story, I'm assuming that you play mainly Alliance, your Draenei avatar is indicative of this. Whether or not you have Horde toons is irrelevant, since, due to your investment in the Alliance, you are most likely going to see the Orcs in a bad light (which you do.)

As far as Orcs fucking up leading the Horde, I've already given a list of decent Orc leaders as far as Warchiefs of the Horde go right now we've had two terrible ones and two good ones, last time I checked 2/4 is a better ratio than 1/3 (Archimonde, Velen, and Kil'jaeden.)

As far as it being called the Darkspear Rebellion, let's not forget that there are the Orc refugees outside of Razor Hill, in addition to those in Razor Hill that defected. Not to mention most of the Orcs are oathbound so their hands are pretty much tied (Especially with Malkorok and The Korkron abducting those who question Hellscream's regime.) and let's not forget the soldiers like Nazgrim, they don't like what they're doing, but as soldiers "Theirs is not to question, only to act."

Also, when considering these NPC's note that in-game numbers =/= Lore numbers, otherwise the Darkspear rebellion would be attacking Orgrimmar with a force of Roughly 50, they wouldn't take a small town with those numbers, so the amount of Orcs you see in game, is in fact much larger, in lore.

As far as Orcs and redemption goes, let's see. The first corruption is indirectly the fault of the Draenei, a warning that there might be one of the most threatening forces in the universe trying to exterminate you, and have snuffed out countless planets that you have settled on would be nice, you could also throw in that the main person TRYING to find you is called "the Deciever." As far as Garrosh goes, that's what happens when a bad person gets in a seat of power, that doesn't say anything about the Orcs as a whole, nor does it say anything about the one who appointed him. (Thrall's idea of "Long" was months, not years, he wasn't counting on Deathwing Shattering Azeroth, and Garrosh wasn't showing signs of starting a global conflict and kicking all non-Orcs out of the Horde)

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There are those who take that sense of what we like in the story seriously, its what drew us to the game, our characters, lore characters we like, and what, in many cases, kept us playing. So its not irrelevant for someone who feels pissed off at the developers for changing something so sudden and dramatically, that they feel that way about it.

Honestly if it weren't for the friends I had made raiding, and the lore, I probably would have moved on to a different MMO or even game genre entirely by now.

Also, to "The Glitch" I'm not whining because my favorite race isn't leading a faction anymore, I'm complaining because a core aspect of the game was changed for absolutely no reason, and, not to sound over dramatic, it does feel like a betrayal, considering I grew up on WCIII. This isn't even taking into consideration that they chose one of the WORST guys for the job. (With Gallywix and Sylvanas being the only two that would be worse) You can be excited for the change, like I've said before, but I've pretty much lost interest in the Horde's story, and I feel like the people here cheering that the Orcs are now out of the spot light are in for a disappointment when they realize that one race traded the spotlight with another. Expect the Siame-Quashi to replace the Kor'kron.

[The Glitch]

so, you think its ridiculous for someone to claim a person isn't invested in an aspect of the story so they base there judgement of the situation on that (such as saying they dont' like orcs or play them so think its cool a non-orc warchief is now in charge).. and yet when someone is invested in an aspect of the story they liked to much, that it makes them feel let down and betrayed by the developers when they fuck it up, thats irrelevent? (such as orc fans seeing orcs reduced to cannon fodder bad guys, then then having there place in the horde pissed on).

There are those who take that sense of what we like in the story seriously, its what drew us to the game, our characters, lore characters we like, and what, in many cases, kept us playing. So its not irrelevant for someone who feels pissed off at the developers for changing something so sudden and dramatically, that they feel that way about it.

Yes I do think it's ridiculous.

If we go with your thinking, then all those Hordies that come into threads to bitch and whine about Alliance players that have complaints about Alliance storylines, should also stay away as their opinion isn't valid, due to them being Horde right? Yet I've seen you come in all hell breaking loose into threads where Alliance folks have concerns telling them they are wrong and just whiners. You are no better than the people you complain about.

I respect both factions storylines, I enjoy both factions storylines, I also respect other peoples views on their favourite faction, so long as they aren't making wild accusations and belittling other players just because they don't agree with you.

I haven't been happy with a lot of things they have done with some of my favourite characters, but I can also stand back and say *ok well it may not be the way I thought it should go, but I will let it play out and see where it takes us* rather than hit the forums and try and stuff my opinion down everyones throats and tell them they are wrong when they disagree.

I love Thralls story, and have no hate against Orcs as a rule, I just also know that stagnant waters start to smell after a while, it's better to drink from a fresh pool. This is why I like Vol'jin being given the chance to shine and show what he's made of, you keep saying they hardly have any backstory, then let them have a story, this is their chance to go deep into another race and give them the depth they need.

[Grocalis]

Not all of us orc fans are angry about this development, just want to point that out to people. I have been a huge orc player since WC2, was happy with the changes to the faction in WC3 and have been a big supporter of the horde faction for years. Garrosh made me question my faith in the faction because I didn't want to regress back to the same old warmongers. This hordite is proud to have a true brother of the Horde as Warchief.

Too bad a small minority of others can't see past the race to what the Horde is about.

[Wildberry]

I love Thralls story, and have no hate against Orcs as a rule, I just also know that stagnant waters start to smell after a while, it's better to drink from a fresh pool. This is why I like Vol'jin being given the chance to shine and show what he's made of, you keep saying they hardly have any backstory, then let them have a story, this is their chance to go deep into another race and give them the depth they need.

We've already seen what Vol'jin's made of, and it's nothing impressive. In regards to races lacking back story, there's no reason to betray a core aspect of the game just to develop another race. If it takes a race being poster boy for a faction to recieve development, then having a different race leading the faction will only cure the symptoms, NOT the problem.

[chocobo606]

Vol'jin is a coward and doesn't deserve to be the leader of the Horde.

[Wildberry]

Not all of us orc fans are angry about this development, just want to point that out to people. I have been a huge orc player since WC2, was happy with the changes to the faction in WC3 and have been a big supporter of the horde faction for years. Garrosh made me question my faith in the faction because I didn't want to regress back to the same old warmongers. This hordite is proud to have a true brother of the Horde as Warchief.

Too bad a small minority of others can't see past the race to what the Horde is about.

Nope, don't care.

This is a game. A game with a story written by writers. So really, you keep deluding yourself that your amazing "analysis" has any merit to a fictional universe of elves and space goats.

I'm pretty sure we stopped counting your opinion the minute you fell back on "Nope don't care about counter arguments" and "Lol, just a game."

I'll happily debate with you, but not with arguments like the ones you've presented.

Could we just get this fucking clown a ban or something? Pretty please?

God forbid I disagree with someone, at least I'm contributing constructively to this thread, unlike some others, I could name *points to the quote above*

Vol'jin is a coward and doesn't deserve to be the leader of the Horde.

There we go! That's the spirit!

OT: I'm not saying other races shouldn't recieve development, I'm all for that, what I am saying, however, is that a core aspect of the Franchise itself, shouldn't be betrayed FOR the development of other races. Trolls don't need to be leading the Horde to recieve development, just like Velen doesn't have to be High King to actually have the Draenei do something.

[Trassk]

what I find funny is, how people wanted to draw on Thralls faults for years, or hype up some things about his character as being bad to them in order to ridicule him.
likewise, people who hated Garrosh had his faults drawn up and spoke out about it.

Yet, because the idea of Vol'jin is new, people don't seem capable of seeing the faults in having vol'jin as warchief, not paying attention to his lack of character or backstory, or how any development he's gotten, has been force feed into the story in the last few months.

like I say, people think because somethings new, its great, yet given a few years, people will be saying how they hate vol'jin and want a new warchief.

[CosmicGuitars]

what I find funny is, how people wanted to draw on Thralls faults for years, or hype up some things about his character as being bad to them in order to ridicule him.
likewise, people who hated Garrosh had his faults drawn up and spoke out about it.

Yet, because the idea of Vol'jin is new, people don't seem capable of seeing the faults in having vol'jin as warchief, not paying attention to his lack of character or backstory, or how any development he's gotten, has been force feed into the story in the last few months.

like I say, people think because somethings new, its great, yet given a few years, people will be saying how they hate vol'jin and want a new warchief.

People enjoyed Thrall when he was not given very much screen time. His over-exposure in Cataclysm is what drove most of us away.

[Zarc]

like I say, people think because somethings new, its great, yet given a few years, people will be saying how they hate vol'jin and want a new warchief.

Haha. Where the fuck have you been living? In a cave?

Human nature is that they dislike the new, but give it some time and they love it and don't want it to change. That is just basic human behavior, seriously? lol you made me laugh

[Grocalis]

I'm pretty sure we stopped counting your opinion the minute you fell back on "Nope don't care about counter arguments" and "Lol, just a game." I'll happily debate with you, but not with arguments like the ones you've presented.

You likely stopped counting my opinions, but that is fine, because my opinions are for those that see reason rather then "Orc Orc Orc". I stopped counting your own opinions ages ago, and now am simply pointing out that not all of us orc fans are as bitter as you few are. I wanted those that see you and Trassk argue endlessly about the destruction of the franchise and point out that orc loving players like me can see beyond such a petty hate.

God forbid I disagree with someone, at least I'm contributing constructively to this thread, unlike some others, I could name *points to the quote above*

There we go! That's the spirit!

In regard to an nonconstructive Vol'jin bashing post.

What were you saying a minute ago about "Constructive"? I guess being "constructive" only matters when the people are not agreeing with you. If they agree with you though? Sure let them call a random character a coward and that he does not deserve a fictional title. Woop Woop.

[Trassk]

OT: I'm not saying other races shouldn't recieve development, I'm all for that, what I am saying, however, is that a core aspect of the Franchise itself, shouldn't be betrayed FOR the development of other races. Trolls don't need to be leading the Horde to recieve development, just like Velen doesn't have to be High King to actually have the Draenei do something.

This is what I agree with. I think it was working out fine in mists in regards to other races getting development, the blood elves for example, gave a race that needed development, and I would have been happy if they just did the same with other races as it went along. But instead, they had to throw a curve ball and fuck up the orcs story, with making a non-orc the hordes leader. If they just made an orc its leader, and carry on giving development to the other races it would have been fine, because it would have developed there races in there own way, like it worked with the blood elves.
Instead, they intertwined the orcs story that it can't work without a troll leading them now, and it fucks up the orcs story as a result. they could have just chosen an orc warchief, one with some honor to his name, be it Saurfang, Thrall or another, and that would have been fine. But they decided to go for a twist for shock value.

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People enjoyed Thrall when he was not given very much screen time. His over-exposure in Cataclysm is what drove most of us away.

which means vol'jin will be the subject of hate in a years time, knowing how this thing works. unless of course vol'jin sits around doing nothing from now on.

[Wildberry]

In regard to an nonconstructive Vol'jin bashing post.

What were you saying a minute ago about "Constructive"? I guess being "constructive" only matters when the people are not agreeing with you. If they agree with you though? Sure let them call a random character a coward and that he does not deserve a fictional title. Woop Woop.

You mean someone in a thread that is specifically asking what our thoughts on the new warchief are is giving their thoughts on the new warchief? Isn't constructive? That's rather odd, isn't it?

[LazarusLong]

It getting ridiculous really. No, it's not a death of a franchise. Yes, Vol'jin are awesome. And yes, organizing the Rebellion makes him a great candidate. Just look at de Gaulle

[Trassk]

It getting ridiculous really. No, it's not a death of a franchise. Yes, Vol'jin are awesome. And yes, organizing the Rebellion makes him a great candidate. Just look at de Gaulle

you got that all wrong, I didn't say death of a franchise, I meant death of a concept in the franchise, that being orcs being the face of the horde. with vol'jin in charge, trolls become the face of the horde, and the orcs get shafted.

[DeltrusDisc]

Aggra? She would have been horrible! Not to mention how un-Hordelike she is!

Frankly I was hoping for the dearest Blood Elf boss, but Vol'jin is totally fine in my books.

I'm Alliance at heart but I've really only been playing Horde since I had a scroll of res in March 2012. I will be keeping my main Horde, now.

[Wildberry]

It getting ridiculous really. No, it's not a death of a franchise. Yes, Vol'jin are awesome. And yes, organizing the Rebellion makes him a great candidate.

Vol'jin is anything but awesome and as I have said time and time again in this thread, The only person that should be credited with the success of organizing the rebellion is Garrosh Hellscream.

[Deleted]

What I don't get is that people assume that nothing will change in the structure of the Horde, that the Warchief will still be the defacto face and the rest is irrelevant. Just look at Vol'Jin's reaction in the cinematic, assuming Blizz builds on that he will be working far more closely with the other leaders than any of his predecessors, including Thrall, which in turn leads to a far more diverse image of the Horde.

Maybe it's just me, but Varian isn't really the one face of the Alliance, now is he? Face of the humans, absolutely, but not the face of Alliance as a whole.
Vol'Jin is the face of the Trolls (ain't no pretty face either), has been for ages and he will remain as such but I doubt he will be the one face of the Horde like Thrall was.

EDIT: I must say though, that I find it entertaining that the most vocal Garrosh basher has suddenly switched teams and is now bashing Vol'Jin. You'd almost think it's about the act of bashing itself.

[Alltat]

It's nice to see a character from Warcraft III get some more attention. I approve. He's been a bit whiny in the past few expansions, but hopefully he'll get back to his badass roots.

[Trassk]

It's nice to see a character from Warcraft III get some more attention. I approve. He's been a bit whiny in the past few expansions, but hopefully he'll get back to his badass roots.

vol'jins not got any badass roots though. His backstory has nothing to it to suggest this. He had to be saved by Thrall and the orcs from murlocs, then.. nothing much else in wc3, and absolutely nothing in wow until cata and his speech in the starting zone, and then.. like a f**king rock from the sky, his character forced driven with a book and shoved into the foreground.

I would not have minded, if Vol'jin was a character with some long standing good character development over all the years he's been in the horde. but he's had none. Everything people say about vol'jin now stems from the last half a year blizzard has thrown vol'jin banners at us telling us to acknowledge his presence in the story, and thats all its been.

This is a character that for 6 years, did nothing except crack a beer keg open as brewfest. Back then, even I remember thinking to myself "who is this guy, whats he done? does he even have a backstory?"