I am requiring my guild to do their spec's "Gold" Proving Grounds - thoughts?

[Elite Peon]

I agree with the OP so many are attacking him but if anything can improve raid performance why not do it are you scared you will fail ? You could even go a step further for tanks and dps and require them to solo very hard old content ...you learn a hell off a lot about maximizing your damage while staying alive doing that.

[deadman1]

Classes like fire mages and destro locks among others get screwed over in proving grounds because those classes rely on stats heavily.

My mage has slightly less than 50% crit and in PGs I have around 27%, that goes from half of my attacks critting to a fourth of them. If I don't crit i don't do damage. So I really do not see how that preps me for a raid.

Your system is broken and anytime you overstep your role as a guild/raid leader then you will eventually lose people. This is a game in the end, i recommend you treat it as such.

[MoanaLisa]

I would challenge you to find me ever saying I've raided with these players before.

Then I guess I'm very confused by that followup to your OP where you said you were requiring people in your guild--whom I guess you've never raided with--to do proving grounds for gold.

[Amerrol]

If your guild killed garrosh, then you don't need PG as a metric. You're ilvl 549. Most of our raid was 505 on wednesday.

The point was that as a guild that is more hardcore than yourself, we thought it's insane that you are using PGs as a requirement to join your one day a week Flex run. Just like my guild knows how I play, you should know how your raiders play. You aren't a pug from what I understand (don't get me started on the insane requirements pug leaders have only for themselves to be mediocre at best). Even requiring that for trials is nonsense. Bring them to raid, if they suck, then bench them. I get that you have limited time per week, we do too, but I don't know what to tell you if you expected 505 casuals to clear even the first wing in Flex on the first week. Patch just came out. You have time.

[Tankitbetter]

Update: There seems to be some confusion so I'll back up the story some. My guild is a casual, 1 night a raid guild whose first raid was Wednesday night. I have never raided with the vast majority of the ~20 people who showed up in a wide variety of ilvl and raid experiences. I had players who are former hardcore heroic raiders who don't have time to raid more than 1 night a week and players who first started playing WoW 2 months ago. I have players in 505 ilvl and players in 540 ilvl with legendary cloaks. It's a melting pot. It went decently well but there were a lot of mistakes by a lot of people. I decided to implement the gold requirement in order to potentially weed out those who just want to be carried and to help identify those who would need extra attention in the raid.

So far, overall, it's worked. We now have 4 or 5 people who haven't done it yet. Some of the people - including a DPS DK and a healer shaman - had some problems in it and I was able to give advice on certain rounds to do certain things to help them. Many looked up videos or strategies - some realized after checking out askmrrobot that they were gemming incorrectly for their specs. So far: this has been a success.

- - - Updated - - -

Then I guess I'm very confused by that followup to your OP where you said you were requiring people in your guild--whom I guess you've never raided with--to do proving grounds for gold.

I added an update to further clarify and how the guild has reacted. Hope it makes more sense!

[timtim89]

Well in proving ground into gold you have nothing that can kill you, you also dont have tons of shit going on at once. IMO this is stupid there is no AoE or fire on the ground

[Floopa]

Resto Shaman use HR and HST in raids. Nothing else. Very hard class.

Frost DKs spam Howling Blast, dump RP into Frost Strike and use Unholy runes for Plague Strike. Very hard class.

Are you trolling?

[Tankitbetter]

How about this. Take out the word "also". Let's say you ONLY required a 1750 arena rating. Or ONLY a certain rank in Brawler's Guild. The point being made is it's not a consistent or meaningful metric of anything when considering what you meet in a raid. You wanna see how someone performs in a raid-like situation? Run a Heroic or an LFR with them, watch how they perform when having to make up for someone else's mistake or having to adjust on the fly. Requiring some random achievement is just lazy, it's a hands-off approach.

Hands-on, you mean, since I helped guide people through that were having issues?

Also, PG was implemented to help players learn their classes and various mechanics. Arena and Brawler's guild were not. They are very, very different.

[yzzie]

This is a pretty unreasonable request to make of raiders who raid in a 1 night per week team.
Gold is actually pretty difficult to get depending in class and spec. From personal experience, I am still struggling with the healing gold as disc priest because it's a COMPLETELY different playstyle that what I would use in a raid environment, and it teaches new players very little about how to raid. I am a heroic experienced raider with gold CMs, I do know a bit about raiding and my class. PG gold is annihilating me at the moment.
I urge you not to make gold PGs mandatory for your raiders, people were raiding long before PGs came out and they did fine. Use forums and blogs for raid info. And forcing something like this on players will only make them walk away/lose self confidence if the challenge is too hard.

[Deleted]

Did the healing one on my monk, found out that it's more about addmanagement than actual healinf, once you figure out a priority list for interrupting and disarming/stunning it should all be a breeze.
I expected more focus on actual healing tho.. >

[MoanaLisa]

I added an update to further clarify and how the guild has reacted. Hope it makes more sense!

It does, thank you.

[Tankitbetter]

Resto Shaman use HR and HST in raids. Nothing else. Very hard class.

Frost DKs spam Howling Blast, dump RP into Frost Strike and use Unholy runes for Plague Strike. Very hard class.

Are you trolling?

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

[endersblade]

Huh, doesn't actually sound like a bad idea. It'll at least make sure people have the very basics down. If they can't be bothered to spend the few minutes to complete that, then they certainly aren't worth your guild's time.

[Floopa]

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

You want two of the most easy, brain dead specs in the game to do something over complicated to earn a raid spot? That's ridiculous.

[Tankitbetter]

This is a pretty unreasonable request to make of raiders who raid in a 1 night per week team.
Gold is actually pretty difficult to get depending in class and spec. From personal experience, I am still struggling with the healing gold as disc priest because it's a COMPLETELY different playstyle that what I would use in a raid environment, and it teaches new players very little about how to raid. I am a heroic experienced raider with gold CMs, I do know a bit about raiding and my class. PG gold is annihilating me at the moment.
I urge you not to make gold PGs mandatory for your raiders, people were raiding long before PGs came out and they did fine. Use forums and blogs for raid info. And forcing something like this on players will only make them walk away/lose self confidence if the challenge is too hard.

There are several of you guys who have replied - hardcore raiders that take for grant the knowledge you have.

When I suggested a resto shaman use capacitor totem to help with incoming damage, he asked "What's that?"

- - - Updated - - -

You want two of the most easy, brain dead specs in the game to do something over complicated to earn a raid spot? That's ridiculous.

If their specs are brain dead, they should have no problem getting gold.

[kamuimac]

this system is broken from many more reasons - fight there are scrypted so with each attemp ur just recreating stuff not learning to adapt to situations which is mmilion times more important in raid - and like many stated proving grounds dont prove anything with how drastically class performance changes with gear for some classes - also such system would work perfeckly in perfect world but u gonna tell me honestly that u would bring in melee who got gold over range who got silver ? never gonna happen -_-

Did the healing one on my monk, found out that it's more about addmanagement than actual healinf, once you figure out a priority list for interrupting and disarming/stunning it should all be a breeze.
I expected more focus on actual healing tho.. >

monk healing chalenge is retardly broken - when i was doin it i usually ende3d up with around 30-40 balls laying around usless thats at least few milions health not recived making the chalenge much harder then it should actually be if u were doin it with actual people not with scripted npc who dont have in script to take balls only waiitng for them to expire ><

some realized after checking out askmrrobot that they were gemming incorrectly for their specs.
!

and lets hope they didnt foloow blindly mrrobot before checking other sites what their actualy stats priorities are -_- and that u told them how to set up stats caps there - liek for example without setting cap its showing MW to stack spirit -_- and many more easter eggs liek this for other classes -_-

[Deleted]

You aren't reading in context. The context is Lackluster said "What's next? Also requiring a 1750 arena rating? Requiring a rank in brawler's guild?"

Both are ridiculous ideas based on slippery slope - that somehow, me doing this will also make me require 2 more things that aren't really connected.

Demanding that people have gold in PG is just as wrong as demanding that people have 1750 achiv or completed all of the Brawler's guild. Non of those achivs proves anything about how you perform in an actual raid enviorment.

You said that your groups ilvl was 505. Go and clear Throne of Thunder and watch how people perform there instead of trying to do flex while demanding that people have gold achiv in PBs.

[Tankitbetter]

this system is broken from many more reasons - fight there are scrypted so with each attemp ur just recreating stuff not learning to adapt to situations which is mmilion times more important in raid - and like many stated proving grounds dont prove anything with how drastically class performance changes with gear for some classes - also such system would work perfeckly in perfect work but u gopnna tell me honestly that u gonna bring in melee who got gold over range who got silver ? never gonna happen -_-

Many, many raids are heavily scripted with little randomness. Look at Sha of Pride. Spread, stack, kill add, move to unlock. It's very formulaic.

I personally think that gold is easier for ranged, but maybe I'm crazy.

[Deleted]

You do flexi... and want gold mode. Are you high? Or even better I bet you are that thing starting with "T".

You sound like terrible guild master and those people who left would be better without you. In fact I hope your whole guild falls apart for doing something so dumb.

Gold is very easy though and it shows that you have a basic understanding of being able to prioritize certain mobs. Endless 30 is also very easy with some classes (I one-shotted it as a mage) so I don't think gold is a very harsh requirement.

[Pengalor]

Hands-on, you mean, since I helped guide people through that were having issues?

Also, PG was implemented to help players learn their classes and various mechanics. Arena and Brawler's guild were not. They are very, very different.

No, I mean hands-off since, in order for this requirement to mean anything, you'll deny anyone who doesn't have the achievement. No inspecting their play, asking about their experience, checking their raid achievements, and no accounting for beneficial personalities.

PG is borderline useless for those kinds of things. Maybe you can learn a rotation in there, that's about it. You don't have to do anything spectacular, you don't have to plan your positioning, you don't have to learn how to interact with the rest of the players, to space yourself, to watch timers, to understand complex mechanics. What PG does is already done and done better through questing and 5-mans.