FLex worse than LFR? That awkward moment when....

[chrisisvacant]

Blizzard is supposed to give its players something fun to do no matter whether other players think they are "horrible." Being disturbed by "horrible" players is a player-created problem with no Blizzard solution.

I disagree. Horrible players lead to a decline in subs. It's not even a question.

[Normie]

I believe one of the reasons they have flex is to introduce a stepping stone between LFR and normal. Think about it, lots of people don't run anything other than LFR because they can't run normal.

People are not going to run Flex and then "get better" and run normal. Not in any significant numbers. All those people who can "get better" are already better. There are no more players, aside from a tiny trickle of newcomers, who will ever "get better."

However, people may try normal and fail and decide to stick with Flex.

[chrisisvacant]

People are not going to run Flex and then "get better" and run normal. Not in any significant numbers. All those people who can "get better" are already better. There are no more players, aside from a tiny trickle of newcomers, who will ever "get better."

However, people may try normal and fail and decide to stick with Flex.

Actually, a lot of folks who don't have time to devote to guilds don't typically have the opportunity to join normals. The going req. for normals is an achievement from... normals.

Therefore Flex (and to a lesser degree, Proving Grounds) help cull the poor players from the pack because you cannot simply carry mass quantities of shitty players. They get kicked much faster than in LFR.

[Anevers]

Fair point. Just disappointing. I don't know how Blizzard is supposed/expected to fix an influx of horrible players.

They aren't, thats the community's job.

[flaggel]

Flex is more or less for guilds with a huge amount of people. For instance if you have 23 guildees on, all 90 but only 10 are allowed to raid in the core 10-man group, the other 13 can do flex if they couldnt get in and get gear much faster. PuGs are a special case because ever since lfr releasing in 4.3, anyone new to wow is absolutely shitty if they are brought up with that instead of doing a pug of MSV on normal. Cata was better with PuGs because atleast in BH it taught people what to do in a easy type raid unlike now in MoP with world bosses people can simply die and just run back like no big deal.

[Vargas]

Fair point. Just disappointing. I don't know how Blizzard is supposed/expected to fix an influx of horrible players.

Making the 1-60 dungeons a bit harder (having actual boss mechanics rather than be tank and spank) and re-instating class quests that work along the lines of FF14's class quests that teach you the correct way to play your class. Players shouldn't be expected to have to read an outside guide on how to play their class; Blizzard should have done that through the leveling experience.

[cFortyfive]

Fair point. Just disappointing. I don't know how Blizzard is supposed/expected to fix an influx of horrible players.

Some form of ingame pve rating would be decent.
I don't know it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be though when I was running a pug through but I might have been just lucky. Dps requirements seemed pretty lenient as well as healing and it was a pretty smooth run with most players at around ~520. Also you can instantly remove the trash and don't have to search replacements if you start with around 15.

[ImpTaimer]

You'll want at least full ToT LFR (502) gear if you want to do Flex virtually headache free.

Anyone doing Flex as 522+ and complains about how easy it is should just stop right now and do Normal SoO like you're expected.

[But I Hate You All]

You'll want at least full ToT LFR (502) gear if you want to do Flex virtually headache free.

Anyone doing Flex as 522+ and complains about how easy it is should just stop right now and do Normal SoO like you're expected.

Sadly everyone on my server wants a 520+ to do flex

[Socialhealer]

sounds like OP cant stand putting any effort into the game, well who cares about the kinda ppl who don't try, have nothing and just whine about it.

[Deleted]

Every Flex run I seen wants you to have IL 520 min + exp with fights

Oh, just wait a few weeks.
Then it will be more like: "LFM Flex SoO - need 530+ and clear achievement!"

[But I Hate You All]

Oh, just wait a few weeks.
Then it will be more like: "LFM Flex SoO - need 530+ and clear achievement!"

HA they all ready are like this now "LFM Flex SoO - need 520+ and pst EXP""LFM Flex SoO - need 520+ and MUST HAVE EXP ON NORMAL"

[Mammoon]

That awkward moment when you start/join a flex group where no one cares about how geared or skilled people are....

then you find out that other people are doing them as a guild and one-shotting everything with no frustration.

[Resentful]

Oh, just wait a few weeks.
Then it will be more like: "LFM Flex SoO - need 530+ and clear achievement!"

Yep all in Mal'ganis too lol

[MoanaLisa]

I disagree. Horrible players lead to a decline in subs. It's not even a question.

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” ― George Carlin

The same applies to average players too I guess. How do you propose to keep average-to-bad players out of the game?

Flex--as Blizzard has said numerous times--is for casual guilds. I'm glad that Flex is generating a pug scene on realms and I suppose after a couple of weeks that will sort itself out on its own. But that's not what it was created to do.

[ZeroEdgeir]

Guys, you do recall that Blizzard outright said that Flex Raid was not designed with the INTENT of PuGs, but for those organized groups struggling in Normal to be able to have something harder and more organized than LFR, but not as big a jump from LFR to Normal.

PUGs will fail hard mostly, for the next while, until they get caught up in LFR gear and MAYBE learn some mechanics.

I wouldn't PUG a Flex run. I'd fill it with friends and guildies. Cause that was more the intent.

[Fullmetal89]

I find it funny that people actually thought that Flex would be anything revolutionary. Its really nothing more than another LFR except it forces you to pug with people from your server. While its very useful for small guilds its also a nightmare for those that just want to do a quick pug, since there's nothing quick about Flex due to the way it works. Anyways I honestly don't care for it, its not something that affects me since I don't find any good reason to raid anymore. If anything Flex raiding is the culmination of the design model they have used for this expansion. Its another gating/milking mechanism so they can say that there's lots to do in this patch. I wouldn't want the system removed, it serves its purpose but I find it funny that there were so many players getting excited for this like it was going to be something spectacular.

[MoanaLisa]

I find it funny that people actually thought that Flex would be anything revolutionary. Its really nothing more than another LFR except it forces you to pug with people from your server.

Not true really. It's as cross-realm as you can make it and the first time that current tier raiding has been available to cross-realm groups.* Go check OpenRaid if you don't believe me. So no, you're not forced to do that.

*Just to be clear about cross-realm raiding, I'm not talking about LFR in this case since it's a random group. Pugs up to this point were realm only for current tier if I'm not mistaken.

[Benggaul]

"LFR is turning people into horrible raiders!"

False. It just opened raiding to a whole slew of people who had never had the opportunity to raid before. It doesn't turn good players into bad ones. It's just a place for the bad ones--or even just people who did not have the time or the group to run Normals--to get a feel of progression that's lacking after heroic dungeons are finished.

"Flex raiding is just as bad/even worse than LFR!"

False. You get to pick who stays in your group without having to spin the roulette wheel afterwards and you can permanently ban people from your group if they've proven to be intolerable before WITHOUT having to wait in a queue for an hour for another member (unless it's the tank/healer being a complete ass, although at least in Flex you can actively recruit someone for the role rather than sit there and wait). And this is all only if you decide to try to PuG it, which it wasn't really intended for. If you think Flex raiding is worse, chances are it's because you yourself aren't patient enough to actually learn real raid mechanics (and cope with the subsequent fails) or you've made the wrong choice when deciding who to run it with.

The average "skill" level of the WoW population hasn't changed with the advent of these new systems. They've only shone a spotlight on what was already evident long before LFG/LFR came to the fore. You just didn't hear about it because those people never had any avenues to pursue: either they were shut out of raid groups for their poor performance in the past, or they didn't try at all. Remember, only a relatively small portion of the WoW community was actually heavily involved in raiding before LFR made it more accessible. No raiding guild worth its salt suffers in the least from these other people running their own "easy mode".

[Fullmetal89]

Not true really. It's as cross-realm as you can make it and the first time that current tier raiding has been available to cross-realm groups. Go check OpenRaid if you don't believe me. So no, you're not forced to do that.

Well I mean LFR is technically cross-realm too, so I don't really see your point other than the fact that its a more organized mechanism for cross-realm joint guild runs.

Edit: Never mind I see what you meant.