Poll: What is your Sub Loss Prediction?

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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    But that's the whole issue with the dungeons scene. If you've noticed in the past, when we've gotten dungeons+a raid, we've gotten reduced content as a result. Dungeons are half the size/a third of the size of a raid. They take up a lot of resources to make.

    In 3.3, we just had Dungeons and a Raid. That was it.

    In 4.1, we lost Abyssal Maw and instead got 2 recycled dungeons.

    In 4.3, we got LFR, dungeons, and a recycled 8 man instance.

    Besides, what would happen if they gave us new dungeons? We run them 3 times then get tired of them?

    Remember how excited people were for ZG and ZA and now HATE them?

    Same goes for the Hour of Twilight instances.

    Though obviously it doesn't cater to you, Flex raiding was made to have a balance between LFR and Normal mode; it's like 10 man ICC.

    Honestly since they implemented it PUG groups for raids have popped up everywhere. It's nice to see.

    And even though I think they have done amazing with Mists and made the game lively again, obviously others will disagree with me.

    The sub losses won't stop, but I'll keep playing until I don't find it fun any longer.

    Also: I don't see your complaint about Normal Difficulty.
    "Just" Dungeons and a raid? That's much more than just a raid... 3.3 also gave us LFD.

    4.1 was a bad patch in a bad expansion that provided few content, just as the rest of the expansion did. They released little content in the whole Cataclysm, period. And even then, the problem wasnt launching 2 dungeons, the problem was launching 2 dungeons AND NOTHING ELSE because theyd ecided to scrap a raid wher they put A LOT of resources.

    The problem with ZA and ZG wasnt the dungeons itself (although they were overtuned as well as everything in that expansion) the problemw as that nothing else was launched in over 6 months.

    Flex is NOTHING like 10 man ICC. Flex is not a balance between anything, Flex is an attempt to make some people happy by throwing other people's leftovers. The top 20% of raiders dont need 2 difficulty modes (and only 20% of raiders, not players, raiders, completed T14 before T15 was launched).
    What they needed to do is tune NORMAL raiding for NORMAL raiders. Top players have heroic raiding.

    The game is clearly NOT lively, when they have lost 3 millon subs already, more than any other expansion in the past (even more than Cataclysm).

    They need to stop catering to hardcore, go back to dungeons as the main product (and dont make them excesively hard like they did in Cataclysm) and then attempt to recover the MILLONS of casuals lost in the past two expansions.

    You dont see which complaijnt about Normal difficulty? The complain is simple, Normal difficulty in this expansion was overtuned as hell, and only the top minority of raiders got to complete it.

    The subs losses are more related to the dungeon problem though, raiding made only a few thousands lost.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    No. We've gotten reduced raids as a result. It was okay for alot of folks because guess what they never did or never had any aspiration to raid.

    Now we have big raids and no dungeons. Do you really need 13+ bosses in a raid to make it awesome? How bout just 6 or 7 bosses and a couple of dungeons? Or better yet how bout not shoving everybody into the same raid content on 4 difficulty levels just to squeeze as much as you can out of the content. How bout fuck raiding for a little bit or raiding take a back seat and the developers produce OTHER CONTENT with progression behind it..
    Or how about Blizzard actually FULLFILLING their promise and producing more content?

    Back in Wrath they told us they were going to hire new people, but that they needed to train them and it would take some time before they can produce more content.

    Over 4 years passed, and LESS content is being produced than in Wrath (less dungeons, and one less raid).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Personally I don't like dungeons that much because I get bored of them quickly and find no replay ability in them, but considering you have a differing opinion than I do, I may not speak for the masses.

    I would like to see more dungeons and hopefully we will next expansion with each major patch. Regardless, after this expansion I think they've finally found a perfect middle ground with raiding and it'll continue more so.

    Well see in the future though!
    I was running dungeons in Wrath a lot longer than any raid in any expansion. Dungeons have MORE replayability than raids.
    Thrall always was, is, and will be my true Warchief. Garrosh and Vol'jin werent/arent.

  2. #362
    Deleted
    Got a 7 day free gametime cause i didnt play for months, so i thought: why not!

    After updating the game i wanted to log into my realm, 32 min login queue.... ok O.o so i sat out the queue, already forcing myself to not instantly close the game again.
    - First went to try out the new island, there was a gazillion people there and basically the whole place lagged, so i managed to grab a few chests and then left it again.
    - Tried to join a flexmode group, my character is 520 geared so i reckoned it should be ok, basically... all the groups i joined said "nah noob you need ahead of the pack, blahblah, cant join us". Ok, os that was a no go.
    - Joined ToT LFR instead to have something to do, after a 25 min queue as dps i sat in there, watching some kids having an argument over basically nothing for 15 mins, when we got to the boss, we wiped, because some people where afk, some others where doing 30k dps, some others where doing things you arent supposed to do on that boss, etc. 15 people left the raid, i didn't bother to wait for replacements....
    - Decided to try some pvp, after an 8 minute queue i got into a random BG, i actually got used to some real pvp again in FPS games and got totally disgusted by the monstrosity that Blizzard calls PVP. Stun, Fear, Silence, gazillion other forms of cc, this is what they call pvp now? Your character standing around doing nothing for 75% of the time? Meh....

    With nothing else left to do i remembered all the reasons why i quit in the first place, this game just doesn't have "it" anymore. The only way to have proper fun now in this game is to be in a good raiding guild, which costs a lot of time, which i don't have. LFR is just too retarded to even remotely come close to fun, BG's are fucked over because Blizzard totally destroyed any form of resemblance to what once was PVP in their game......

    Asking around at fellow people who used to play wow, they all think the same about it, and i think a lot of people do.
    Therefore my prediction is that the sub loss will be somewhere between 0,5 to 1 million players this quarter, it is a sinking ship really.

  3. #363
    Immortal SL1200's Avatar
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    I think subs might go up a little. The current patch Is pretty fun and a little word of mouth about it might do some good for the subs.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    I don't understand how we've gotten reduced raids. Mists has been a peak for raiding since Wrath/BC.
    I cant disagree more with this. Mist raiding has been the worse of any expansion except Cataclysm.

    Mist killed half of its Normal raiding population in T14 (only half of the raiders that started T14 started T15). HoF insane difficulty destroyed them.

    Mists is one of the worst thing that happened to Normal Raiding in WoW.
    Thrall always was, is, and will be my true Warchief. Garrosh and Vol'jin werent/arent.

  5. #365
    Deleted
    Final Fantasy XIV can have massive impact on wow subs. Here is a random customer review from metacritic:

    "This came out of nowhere for me and ordinarily I wouldn't play a Final Fantasy game. I am SHOCKED at how good this game is. I've been scratching for years to find a replacement MMO for WoW. I've tried all the recent challengers (Tera, Rift, Secret World) and all have their strengths. The all offer something and are enjoyable. What FF provides, is the next step in MMO evolution. Every aspect of the game has been clearly thought out. I know that log in issues are the biggest problem (since launch) and sadly, this happens with almost all new games. I read that even Square Enix weren't prepared for the player influx. I guess, like me they read the reviews and jumped on board. If you're an MMO fan, you will love FF Realm Reborn. I await the likes of Wildstar and Elder Scrolls Online to see if they can pull me away. From my experience, it's no easy task".

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Malenurse View Post
    Final Fantasy XIV can have massive impact on wow subs. Here is a random customer review from metacritic:

    "This came out of nowhere for me and ordinarily I wouldn't play a Final Fantasy game. I am SHOCKED at how good this game is. I've been scratching for years to find a replacement MMO for WoW. I've tried all the recent challengers (Tera, Rift, Secret World) and all have their strengths. The all offer something and are enjoyable. What FF provides, is the next step in MMO evolution. Every aspect of the game has been clearly thought out. I know that log in issues are the biggest problem (since launch) and sadly, this happens with almost all new games. I read that even Square Enix weren't prepared for the player influx. I guess, like me they read the reviews and jumped on board. If you're an MMO fan, you will love FF Realm Reborn. I await the likes of Wildstar and Elder Scrolls Online to see if they can pull me away. From my experience, it's no easy task".
    The fact you think FF:ARR will have an effect on WoW's subscriptions where games like GW2 and SWTOR didn't makes me laugh a little bit.

  7. #367
    4 million subs gone. done to 3.7 million. Q1 of 2014, another 1.8 million gone. By the end of Q2 2014, there will be zero subs left.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidmaster View Post
    Got a 7 day free gametime cause i didnt play for months, so i thought: why not!

    After updating the game i wanted to log into my realm, 32 min login queue.... ok O.o so i sat out the queue, already forcing myself to not instantly close the game again.
    - First went to try out the new island, there was a gazillion people there and basically the whole place lagged, so i managed to grab a few chests and then left it again.
    - Tried to join a flexmode group, my character is 520 geared so i reckoned it should be ok, basically... all the groups i joined said "nah noob you need ahead of the pack, blahblah, cant join us". Ok, os that was a no go.
    - Joined ToT LFR instead to have something to do, after a 25 min queue as dps i sat in there, watching some kids having an argument over basically nothing for 15 mins, when we got to the boss, we wiped, because some people where afk, some others where doing 30k dps, some others where doing things you arent supposed to do on that boss, etc. 15 people left the raid, i didn't bother to wait for replacements....
    - Decided to try some pvp, after an 8 minute queue i got into a random BG, i actually got used to some real pvp again in FPS games and got totally disgusted by the monstrosity that Blizzard calls PVP. Stun, Fear, Silence, gazillion other forms of cc, this is what they call pvp now? Your character standing around doing nothing for 75% of the time? Meh....

    With nothing else left to do i remembered all the reasons why i quit in the first place, this game just doesn't have "it" anymore. The only way to have proper fun now in this game is to be in a good raiding guild, which costs a lot of time, which i don't have. LFR is just too retarded to even remotely come close to fun, BG's are fucked over because Blizzard totally destroyed any form of resemblance to what once was PVP in their game......

    Asking around at fellow people who used to play wow, they all think the same about it, and i think a lot of people do.
    Therefore my prediction is that the sub loss will be somewhere between 0,5 to 1 million players this quarter, it is a sinking ship really.
    This is one big problem Blizzard has because they decided to cater to hardcore elitists.

    They destroyed the best way to catch up (catch up dungeons). Now they introduce silly requirements only to try to make the VERY LITTLE content they make last longer, untill they realize that what they actually achieve is people leaving the game.

    Attunements were ALWAYS a bad thing, and they reintroduced them in MoP. We can only hope that they remember now why they scrapped them in the first place.

    Also, delaying the LFR wings is yet another mistake aimed to satisfy hardcore players that will never be sattisfied.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicGuitars View Post
    The fact you think FF:ARR will have an effect on WoW's subscriptions where games like GW2 and SWTOR didn't makes me laugh a little bit.

    To be honest, FF dont have the problems GW2 had (basically, stupid dungeons mechanics made only to kill you with stupid stuff making 99% of the people graveyard zerging the bosses) or the problems SWTOR had (millons of bugs annd very little endgame, coupled with dungeons being harder than operations, along with no dungeon finder).
    Thrall always was, is, and will be my true Warchief. Garrosh and Vol'jin werent/arent.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    (only half of the raiders that started T14 started T15).
    The data do not support this large a decline, unless you have data on guilds that tried and failed to down even a single boss in T14 normal.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  10. #370
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post

    Also, delaying the LFR wings is yet another mistake aimed to satisfy hardcore players that will never be sattisfied.
    That's another one as well. I mean we were talking about ego gratification and I can't help but think that delaying the lfr release has the effect of making those people who do lfr exclusively feel like second class citizens.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The data do not support this large a decline, unless you have data on guilds that tried and failed to down even a single boss in T14 normal.
    Data showed this very clearly before 5.3 launched.

    Just before 5.3 launched, only half the raiders that killed Stone Guards managed to Kill Jin'rokh.

    Even now, 48k killed Stone Guards, 33k killed jin'rokh. Again, almost half the Normal raiders killed in one single tier.
    Thrall always was, is, and will be my true Warchief. Garrosh and Vol'jin werent/arent.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Data showed this very clearly before 5.3 launched.

    Just before 5.3 launched, only half the raiders that killed Stone Guards managed to Kill Jin'rokh.

    Even now, 48k killed Stone Guards, 33k killed jin'rokh. Again, almost half the Normal raiders killed in one single tier.
    You have to normalize for time since the start of the respective tier. Do this and you will not see a 50% decline.

    Having said that, your server may vary.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    That's another one as well. I mean we were talking about ego gratification and I can't help but think that delaying the lfr release has the effect of making those people who do lfr exclusively feel like second class citizens.
    Not only they feel, they are. Blizzard treats most of his playerbase like second class citizens, which is a big part of the problem.

    Again, they killed dungeons, which were ran by almost everyone, to please the very minority asking for more raids (what they should have done was actually HIRE more people in Wrath when they promised they would and develop BOTH of them by this time, but as ussually, it was a lie that they were trining new people, they actually fired developers)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    You have to normalize for time since the start of the respective tier. Do this and you will not see a 50% decline.

    Having said that, your server may vary.
    You dont have to normalize anything. This is a blatant down in numbers. Almost the exact same number killed Shannox and Morchok (65k), yet from T14 to T15 the number decrease to almost half.

    Btw, most of the decline is in HoF, the huge and stupid roadblock Blizzard put in T14.
    Thrall always was, is, and will be my true Warchief. Garrosh and Vol'jin werent/arent.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidmaster View Post
    Got a 7 day free gametime cause i didnt play for months, so i thought: why not!

    After updating the game i wanted to log into my realm, 32 min login queue.... ok O.o so i sat out the queue, already forcing myself to not instantly close the game again.
    - First went to try out the new island, there was a gazillion people there and basically the whole place lagged, so i managed to grab a few chests and then left it again.
    - Tried to join a flexmode group, my character is 520 geared so i reckoned it should be ok, basically... all the groups i joined said "nah noob you need ahead of the pack, blahblah, cant join us". Ok, os that was a no go.
    - Joined ToT LFR instead to have something to do, after a 25 min queue as dps i sat in there, watching some kids having an argument over basically nothing for 15 mins, when we got to the boss, we wiped, because some people where afk, some others where doing 30k dps, some others where doing things you arent supposed to do on that boss, etc. 15 people left the raid, i didn't bother to wait for replacements....
    - Decided to try some pvp, after an 8 minute queue i got into a random BG, i actually got used to some real pvp again in FPS games and got totally disgusted by the monstrosity that Blizzard calls PVP. Stun, Fear, Silence, gazillion other forms of cc, this is what they call pvp now? Your character standing around doing nothing for 75% of the time? Meh....

    With nothing else left to do i remembered all the reasons why i quit in the first place, this game just doesn't have "it" anymore. The only way to have proper fun now in this game is to be in a good raiding guild, which costs a lot of time, which i don't have. LFR is just too retarded to even remotely come close to fun, BG's are fucked over because Blizzard totally destroyed any form of resemblance to what once was PVP in their game......

    Asking around at fellow people who used to play wow, they all think the same about it, and i think a lot of people do.
    Therefore my prediction is that the sub loss will be somewhere between 0,5 to 1 million players this quarter, it is a sinking ship really.

    I'm actually with you on this. The problem is is that Blizzard is focused more on the progression treadmill rather than fun.

    The most recent blue post on arena completely validates this, they said that most people, and this includes me; stop doing arena after they're geared. I did enjoy the occasional premade battleground when I was a sub...but shit, why pay 15 dollars a month for a grind?

    Blizzard has lost the vision for WoW ever since Wrath imo. Hopefully they can salvage it because it used to be a fun game for me.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by arnoldr45 View Post
    I'm actually with you on this. The problem is is that Blizzard is focused more on the progression treadmill rather than fun.

    The most recent blue post on arena completely validates this, they said that most people, and this includes me; stop doing arena after they're geared. I did enjoy the occasional premade battleground when I was a sub...but shit, why pay 15 dollars a month for a grind?

    Blizzard has lost the vision for WoW ever since Wrath imo. Hopefully they can salvage it because it used to be a fun game for me.
    Yeah, Wrath was so much better. But then Blizzard listened to the minority of hardcores saying it was too easy and made 2 expansions that are a lot harder and also a lot less fun.
    Thrall always was, is, and will be my true Warchief. Garrosh and Vol'jin werent/arent.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Yeah, Wrath was so much better. But then Blizzard listened to the minority of hardcores saying it was too easy and made 2 expansions that are a lot harder and also a lot less fun.
    I was hardcore (and will be hardcore again if I get the time and gear and feel like it, I wouldn't play casually long term) and I don't get what the problem was with Wrath. Most hardcore raiders loved Ulduar and Heroic LK was pretty damn hard too. yeah, there were a couple crappy raids, but every expac has those.

    I actually thought WotLK had a good variety of easy normal modes, a couple "harder" but not too difficult end bosses on normal, moderately difficult hard modes, and "OMFG hundreds of wipes" hard modes.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    This is one big problem Blizzard has because they decided to cater to hardcore elitists.

    They destroyed the best way to catch up (catch up dungeons). Now they introduce silly requirements only to try to make the VERY LITTLE content they make last longer, untill they realize that what they actually achieve is people leaving the game.

    Attunements were ALWAYS a bad thing, and they reintroduced them in MoP. We can only hope that they remember now why they scrapped them in the first place.

    Also, delaying the LFR wings is yet another mistake aimed to satisfy hardcore players that will never be sattisfied.

    - - - Updated - - -




    To be honest, FF dont have the problems GW2 had (basically, stupid dungeons mechanics made only to kill you with stupid stuff making 99% of the people graveyard zerging the bosses) or the problems SWTOR had (millons of bugs annd very little endgame, coupled with dungeons being harder than operations, along with no dungeon finder).
    Delaying LFR wings have little to do with hardcore people - It is to stop people doing all LFR in week 1 and quit until next patch

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    Delaying LFR wings have little to do with hardcore people - It is to stop people doing all LFR in week 1 and quit until next patch
    Indeed. Two months to rollout LFR = $30 for LFR
    And they wonder why they are losing players.
    Did you think we had forgotten? Did you think we had forgiven?

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    In all honesty, as more players have been quitting the Wow community has been improving significantly and I'm referring to people who actually subscribe and actually play the game not those who hang around these forums just so they can endlessly bitch about a game they no longer play. As far as I'm concerned keep the losses coming.
    This. I haven't seen the WoW community this awesome since BC. It would be a great time to join as a new player I think they would have a lot of fun.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieChicken View Post
    Delaying LFR wings have little to do with hardcore people - It is to stop people doing all LFR in week 1 and quit until next patch
    Nah, thats the excuse they use. Delaying LFR is there because in DS hardcore ppl whined about casuals getting to see the fights too early.
    Thrall always was, is, and will be my true Warchief. Garrosh and Vol'jin werent/arent.

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