[5.4] Bottled Fury: A Windwalker PvE Guide

[Hinalover]

There's something that's been bugging me and perhaps it can be answered here and now.

When discussing TeB, it's sometimes brought up that "it's not mathematically different to activate it at 10 stacks or to do it at 5 then 5 again when that wears off. (Assuming you generate another five stacks during the first's uptime so you have five more to use.)"

When discussing "when to use TeB" directly, your point of "line it up with trinkets" is also often brought up without the other opinion being seen in the same page.

Is there some overall DPS advantage to having a flat +60% damage during a massive AP spike or is it just a community love of burst damage?

It may very well be burst damage. But anyway they fixed the bug in the dev build so once I get off work I'll see what I can come up with in the action priority list. In case people want to test on their own, these are the action triggers that I'll be using to generate a generic action list:

trinket.has_proc.<stat>
trinket.proc.<stat>.<buff_expression>
if stacking proc: trinket.stacking_proc instead of trinket.proc

[gynshon]

It may very well be burst damage. But anyway they fixed the bug in the dev build so once I get off work I'll see what I can come up with in the action priority list. In case people want to test on their own, these are the action triggers that I'll be using to generate a generic action list:

You can look at my armory to see my gear and stats, but keep in mind my logs are from before I got two pieces last night and ran with about 2k less crit, 1k less haste, same mastery. This is last night's logs: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-9b5pnrjgzju92a2x/

I try and use TEB whenever I get a trinket proc. Not perfect by any means, but that is what I am going with and the results are pretty good IMHO.

[Serendepityz]

just want to share, I have now been in for every heroic boss we killed 6/14 HM with GOOD pulls on dark shamans running a Crit>haste>mastery build WITHOUT AoC Chi brew is the key for any form of single target fight. Just to give numbers ( I cant share logs GM's orders) 300k+ -20% dark shaman pulls no SEF 350k Galkaras 260k sha of pride 170k Norushen 360k Protectors. 290k Iron Juggernaut We are the extremely close if not the best melee in pure numbers. the Raid utility issue is still there but im not finding problems with a raid spot.

check my armory if you have any further questions as far as that goes, and if its rotational issues you have just ask me ingame or on here were not as weak as people have been making us out to be. (only used RJW on Galkaras)

Good luck and have a happy raid tier

[TheWindWalker]

Just a bit of "what could have been" here.

Has anyone else who's used the legendary cloak gotten the impression that "this is what Tiger Strikes should have been?" Not with that same super damage, but a sudden change for your autoattacks to cleave and hit enemies with like 100% speed for a few seconds?

[Callimonk]

Just a bit of "what could have been" here.

Has anyone else who's used the legendary cloak gotten the impression that "this is what Tiger Strikes should have been?" Not with that same super damage, but a sudden change for your autoattacks to cleave and hit enemies with like 100% speed for a few seconds?

At least the graphic, because it looks neat.

Makes me feel more tiger-like.

[NeverStop]

just want to share, I have now been in for every heroic boss we killed 6/14 HM with GOOD pulls on dark shamans running a Crit>haste>mastery build WITHOUT AoC Chi brew is the key for any form of single target fight. Just to give numbers ( I cant share logs GM's orders) 300k+ -20% dark shaman pulls no SEF 350k Galkaras 260k sha of pride 170k Norushen 360k Protectors. 290k Iron Juggernaut We are the extremely close if not the best melee in pure numbers. the Raid utility issue is still there but im not finding problems with a raid spot.

check my armory if you have any further questions as far as that goes, and if its rotational issues you have just ask me ingame or on here were not as week as people have been making us out to be. (only used RJW on Galkaras)

Good luck and have a happy raid tier

You're beating Rogues on Iron Juggernaut? I'd really like to see a picture of the WoL DPS meters for the kill if you could PM me it.

[Deleted]

check my armory if you have any further questions as far as that goes, and if its rotational issues you have just ask me ingame or on here were not as week as people have been making us out to be. (only used RJW on Galkaras)

This Rotation or Priority List would be interesting. Especially with ChiBrew.
It would be very appreciated if you could provide that.

[Callypso]

You're beating Rogues on Iron Juggernaut? I'd really like to see a picture of the WoL DPS meters for the kill if you could PM me it.

This pretty much. More to the point, 290k dps wouldn't even have put you in the top 5 on our kill this week for that boss (top 5 including 4x melee) so I'd hardly call that 'very competitive'. Not saying we're shit, but if you're outdps'ing all melee, especially rogues which are our main competitor for loot and thus raidspots, they are either bad, or you're outgearing them.

[Madcowlol]

Usually the rogue is top dps but this time wasnt on juggernaut, tho its normal mode but still.

~8k haste ~12.9k crit ~6k mastery - chi brew

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3t...?s=5333&e=5648

[Deleted]

Heroic Bad Juju vs Normal Sigil of Rampage? which is better.

[Swankyy]

Heroic Bad Juju vs Normal Sigil of Rampage? which is better.

I think Sigil of Rampage would be more situational where you will be cleaving a lot. The mastery on Bad Juju is nice to help keep the TEB generating.

So... Bad Juju for ST fights and SoR for mass cleaving fights imo.

[Drayarr]

Can I get some insight on http://www.wowhead.com/item=103986 <-- this please. Just wondering if its worth grabbing it over the shado-pan vp trinket that im using on my monk atm.

[Serendepityz]

You're beating Rogues on Iron Juggernaut? I'd really like to see a picture of the WoL DPS meters for the kill if you could PM me it.

to make one thing clear that I guess I dident as far as melee goes it varies between me, one of our rogues, and our warrior. Im the least geared. And for Iron Jugg I was also below them due to mass soaking crawler mines between dampen/Zen med/ToK. Even then I was able to push out 290k with a lot of downtime.

[Aerenx]

Anyone have the opportunity to get any playtesting in with a 4 piece mastery build yet? I got mine tonight but haven't had much of a chance to play with it in a real world setting =\

[Deleted]

I really can't get Chi Brew to do anything for me, that Ascension doesn't already seem to do. The chi itself is never ever any problem to produce without CB, and 2 TEB stacks every 45 seconds feels meh... every time I've tried dummy dps, switching between Chi Brew and Ascension... I come up just as good or better with the latter. And then I also like that extra chi you can pool up, or if shit hits the fan and you accidentally jab twice - you loose less.

Ascension will roughly net you an extra 700 - 800 energy over a 7 minute fight, which equals ~17-20 jabs = 34 - 40 chi = 8 - 10 TEB stacks. This is with 7-9k haste.
You'll be able to use Chi Brew 10 times during the same fight, which is 20 chi and 20 TEB stacks. So while you get one extra TEB phase in, you loose out on 8-10 attacks you'd be starved for otherwise.

All seen from a pretty blunt statistical viewpoint ofc.

Timing CB with trinkets I find to be very difficult, seeing that you'll probably encounter periods of energy starvation that way. Unless you want to push out extra FoF, which produces other challenges. No matter how you twist and turn it - longer fight, how your EB and FoF timing is etc - I see a very small difference between the two talents. With one exception - lust at the pull.

I can also see Chi Brew as an excellent talent for people with a bit higher latency (I'm running 17ms myself) since you can't spend energy as quickly.

All in all, to end my wall of text... I'm sure Chi Brew is good if you can perfect it, and also good for higher latency players. But it leaves you with less room for errors and is questionable for AoE fights.

I may have missed something here btw, and noone will be happier than me if I did

[Deleted]

You haven't missed anything. Chi brew is only 'better' at reeeeeally low gear levels since you either don't have the practice yet of perfecting the WW rotation, or you dont have the neccesary haste etc to ever not be energy starved, or both. Especially with the re-design of mastery there's no reason to stockpile TeB any more at all. In roughly ilvl 560 gear and about 7k haste I have no issues in using TeB on cd when it runs out and having about 7 stacks per use.

re. FoF, you say you have low latency yet if i am understanding correctly you say you aren't using FoF??? one of the great, if not the best, benefit of having the bonus chi-pool from Ascension is that you can use FoF to much more affect. Since you should only be using FoF when you are energy starved anyway, it makes it the perfect 'filler' due to being able to rinse your energy out by doing 2 jabs then using FoF to wait for energy to come back again. Especially when you start to look at our 2set bonus and the fact that it requires you to actually 'jab' not to chi brew in order to proc the passive. Honesly dont know why anyone would take CB above ilvl 530ish, unless as you said they are playing on maybe 300+ ms

[Serendepityz]

You haven't missed anything. Chi brew is only 'better' at reeeeeally low gear levels since you either don't have the practice yet of perfecting the WW rotation, or you dont have the neccesary haste etc to ever not be energy starved, or both. Especially with the re-design of mastery there's no reason to stockpile TeB any more at all. In roughly ilvl 560 gear and about 7k haste I have no issues in using TeB on cd when it runs out and having about 7 stacks per use.

Chi brew is by far the better talent in single target the way you talk It sounds like you run a mastery build which is not correct and to top it off your keeping TEB up infinitely at 7stacks? that would also be incorrect sit on stacks and use them with trinket and cloak procs

[TheWindWalker]

that would also be incorrect sit on stacks and use them with trinket and cloak procs

There's no reason to line them up with trinket procs in this tier unless you're doing PVP at the time. Having higher +damage during an AP spike isn't necessarily any better than using it whenever you don't have a massive AP spike from a proc and the cloak proc is three seconds. You literally cannot plan your CD rotation around a randomized 3 second proc.

I otherwise agree with you about the first sentence. I've used Chi Brew since the patch landed and it's made initial burst and getting somewhat closer to blanketing TeB a lot better. That said, I run a mastery heavy build myself (75% after buffs, then everything crit with 6.8-7k haste) and I really don't think I could pull off the "7 stacks blanket" he's describing, but maybe at >100% when it starts to give triple chi. (unless they hotfixed that)

All of that out of the way, it's pretty important to know there is no "correct build," yet. On this very subforum you'll find different people talking about heroic progression with some of them going for mastery>crit=haste, haste-7k>mastery>crit, haste-7k>crit>mastery a few haste>crit>mastery and yes, at least one haste-6-7k>crit>more haste>mastery.

There's not even a second confirmed BiS trinket, yet.

[Deleted]

On the Chi Brew vs Ascension discussion. I've ran Chi Brew on all of the bosses so far. I see no reason to choose Ascension over Chi Brew. If you use it well it just sky rockets in value. I'm currently running with Renetakis as my second trinket along with Multistrike and Chi Brew works out so well with it. You go to 4 chi with 3-5 stacks of Renetakis and then you can burst 4 BoK/RSKs in a row along with TeB up. Also the FoF snapshotting with Renetakis is amazing too. I'm hoping I'll be able to replicate something similar with TED; will be harder to pull off but possible.

Also I've been finding the Legendary cloak to be doing absurd numbers. On both our Spoils and Thok kill my cloak was doing nearly triple of other peoples. I didn't think we had a particularly high RPPM modifier on it, maybe something else effects it?

[Serendepityz]

There's no reason to line them up with trinket procs in this tier unless you're doing PVP at the time. Having higher +damage during an AP spike isn't necessarily any better than using it whenever you don't have a massive AP spike from a proc and the cloak proc is three seconds. You literally cannot plan your CD rotation around a randomized 3 second proc.

I don't understand your logic? if I do 60% increased dmg during a proc that gives me another 10000agi I then was capable of getting the most out of my TeB.
Why do warlocks use haunt when they get trinket procs? Its not to see higher number's during the time. It is more dps to stack things.

And while at a glance it might look hard to use TeB with cloak but its because you would be looking at it backwards you don't need to use TeB on the 3second cloak proc you need to have the cloak proc during the TeB by just running the chances in your head. The animation makes it very easy to notice a cloak proc, then just run the RPPM in your head and the goal is to have it proc during a TeB not the other way around and use a TeB reactively you need to be Proactive with it.