Nerf arms warriors thread

[Hand Banana]

Not requiring shields and stance dancing has taken a lot of the skill needed to play a warrior away.

Things like this confuse me; it makes me pretty sure people don't actually play a warrior. The only thing "skillful" about shield requirements are making macros; the rest is just annoying as hell doing 10% of your normal damage while its up. Plus the delay, I suppose you could say it was skillful to account for the delay in the macro to spell reflect but jesus you're just reaching if thats the case.

Stance dancing is even more important now than before. The "skillful" stance dancing pre-mop was making macros to use your stance required abilities then switching right back. Now stances are like they should be; battle stance gives us more rage which we need more than ever to do damage, and defensive stance keeps us alive. Jumping between the 2 constantly is what good warriors will do; I find myself stance dancing more often now than anytime this expac.

edit: What they need to do to warriors is a few simple things:
Def stance reduces damage by 20% down from 25%
Intervene no longer breaks roots, all warriors get a new ability that serves as a rootbreak that costs a small amount of rage on a 1 minute cd.
Nerf deep wounds by 10%, buff mastery to 75% weapon damage.

Their toolkit is what it needs to be, they just need minor tweaking imo.

[Rucati]

Stance dancing is no way fun or compelling gameplay. It's just dumb.

I have to say I disagree. Was a lot of fun and upped the skill cap of Warriors a lot. Bad Warriors died, good ones didn't. Regardless though, Warriors are okay right now. They were retardedly awful last patch, and they scale less with gear than other classes, so once everyone is geared up it'll be back to normal.

[Masochist]

brainless class

sorry, bm hunter nerf already happened

Oh damn, did the gauntlet of "bitch about a class for a patch" pass from hunters to warriors? If so I vote we have a party in the hunter forum.

you must be new to this game. any time a warrior can do whatever another class can do and excel in it's role as a melee dps, games broken.

wars are either gimp and not worth playing or bring insane pressure that makes everyone cry for nerfs

Not requiring shields and stance dancing has taken a lot of the skill needed to play a warrior away.

by that logic half the skills of every class in the game should have cast times on them and require a decent computer to play the game without an equipment macro sending a 0 fps spike through your game.

by that logic, every warrior who ever beat you at anything in the past is at least ten times better at the game than you will ever be, because you play a faceroll class that, by contrast, takes no skill to play.

you're basically saying that warriors became less skilled because the class became less reliant on server lag. which, even if you don't agree with that assertion, you can probably agree is a ridiculous statement.

[Johnkie]

I REALLY miss my BC/Wrath warrior.

Ya me to, really miss having stance dance, and kinda shields to. Going into defensive stance with shield block and spamming revenge, that did some serious dmg , Dispelling PW:S and Fear wards with shield slam was also fun + you kinda did nice dmg with 1h + shield, now you hit like a turd against a windshield.

War has been made into a dk kinda playstyle imho.

But yeah gotta admit im having more fun now that my main is viable again.
In a way a warrior being somewhat op. Makes the pvp aspect of the game somewhat balanced!
Think about it!.
Arms war works with everything :O

[Kotori125]

Warriors get buffed>"wars too op!!!"
Warriors get nerfed>balance

Go figure.

And you want to slaughter warriors. Make them free kills. Make them unable to move. Make everything counter them.

Because every quality of life change that makes warriors more viable seems makes them overpowered and they need to stay free kills. Because they don't deserve to hit a defensive cooldown and continue to do damage. Like they don't deserve to damage anyone for more than 3 seconds. And their attacks should go to wet noodle status. That was sarcasm by the way.

Once warriors become 'viable' with other similar classes, they become 'overpowered' because they are finally on equal footing. Then again, what do I know?

[Vathius]

Actually everything the OP said was spot on the money. All the issues were addressed and even offered solutions which I think were reasonable having a warrior myself.

Far to much dps uptime in melee range with no 'resource' consequence. Effectively retard proof like hunters were last patch.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I think it's important to note, he used to be a big Warrior person. Now he's not. How poetic.

[asb]

And from amidst the fogs of war, a chorus of battlecries arose: "My class is balanced; just l2p nub." And this would herald the second coming of Pandaria hero warriors.

[Mihalik]

Epic rant+

Gotta give the man props for taking the time for writing all that.

Now to try to answer.

Most likely gear itself will nerf Warriors. Currently Warriors have a weird scaling issue, specifically Arms does. In essence it doesn't scale very well at all. As other people will get more PvP power, their pvp weapons etc. Warrior defenses will lose some of their punch, also as others will gain damage, Warriors won't get as much.

At this very moment there isn't a single Warrior ability that one could subjectively point at and say, THAT IS BROKEN. Disregarding the Slam, Bladestorm, Deep Wounds and MS buffs, all the other changes made from 5.3 are quality of life changes and fixes for game breaking problems Warriors were having, like the fact that a Warrior needed an extra 2500+ Conquest points over other classes, just to buy a shield+1hander, or bugged out macros or the macro latency and disarmable defensive cooldowns etc.

- - - Updated - - -

And from amidst the fogs of war, a chorus of battlecries arose: "My class is balanced; just l2p nub." And this would herald the second coming of Pandaria hero warriors.

As I said before, it is too early to say for sure. And it is hard to point out "broken abilities". Most of the things are just Good. Like really Good. But that's it. They aren't overpowering.

My last nerf which I know I'll get a ton of backlash for is to nerf Juggernaut to a 15 second cool down, Warbringer to 22 seconds and Double Time to 24 seconds. I would also like to add that the Glyph of Heroic Leap should be removed and replaced with a glyph the reduces the cool down on charge by 3 seconds. I guess people would say its a "huge" mobility nerf but I think that with the current state of Warrior damage it needs to happen. Warriors have way too much uptime against casters for the amount of damage they do. They even have the luxury of a 30 second fear break. Do DK's/Ferals/Rets/Monks have that? Nope, but I guess Warriors should have an equal level slow to these classes...

The mobility nerfs would make Piercing Howl much more viable and possibly chosen over Disrupting Shout. That is the intention. One last thing is that they need to fix the Intimidating Shout "bug" that lets the Warrior Dps you for 3 seconds while being stuck in the fear. That shit needs to break on damage instantly and on Bleeds. That'll teach the Warrior not to mindlessly mash thunderclap. If they can't fix this "bug" (Probably intended), they need to put Intimidating Shout back on a three minute cool down. Getting smashed by the Warrior in a 3 second fear and then smashed again in a four second Shockwave/Stormbolt stun no dr isn't fair at all. It's literally close to 5.0 levels when the Warrior could charge stun you, gag order you into a shockwave.

OP You seriously jumped the horse on that part tho.

The shield macro especially as of late was amazingly buggy. It failed more often then it worked, for no specific reason. That is not good game design by any means, we already have enough pathing issues with Heroic Leap. Beyond that Intimidating Shout has an amazingly long cooldown for how long it actually lasts. If it would break on damage faster OR if it would break on bleed damage it would be utterly and completely useless. Now regarding the mobility nerfs. If that would go trough, the only thing a Warrior could ever fight are other warriors. Literally. You have no idea wtf you are talking about.

[Celista]

After following all of the class forums I have noticed that warriors complain the longest and hardest in regards to their class. They have a mighty forum following on fan forums as well as the official forums...the class gets a lot of players who have either been playing the class for a very long time or players who are constantly begging for buffs because they are ineffective at playing the class optimally. I even saw a thread the other day where someone was complaining that warrior dps was "middle of the pack". Really? Players are now making threads when they aren't topping the damage meters in every encounter now? :P In general, I have noticed that the classes that tend to complain the loudest are the ones who end up getting buffed sooner, so perhaps there is some logic in complaining a lot. The shaman threads since before Cata are meek and dejected-sounding in comparison, and look how shamans typically fare each xpac.

The buff/nerf cycle ebbs and flows so rest assured warriors will likely get an adjustment, but you might have to wait until next expansion.

[Mihalik]

After following all of the class forums I have noticed that warriors complain the longest and hardest in regards to their class. They have a mighty forum following on fan forums as well as the official forums...the class gets a lot of players who have either been playing the class for a very long time or players who are constantly begging for buffs because they are ineffective at playing the class optimally. I even saw a thread the other day where someone was complaining that warrior dps was "middle of the pack". Really? Players are now making threads when they aren't topping the damage meters in every encounter now? :P In general, I have noticed that the classes that tend to complain the loudest are the ones who end up getting buffed sooner, so perhaps there is some logic in complaining a lot. The shaman threads since before Cata are meek and dejected-sounding in comparison, and look how shamans typically fare each xpac.

The buff/nerf cycle ebbs and flows so rest assured warriors will likely get an adjustment, but you might have to wait until next expansion.

You have very little clue what about what you are saying. For most of 5.2 and 5.3 Warriors both tanks and dps were completely benched from serious raiding or progression. Yes some Warriors carried the class out of sheer stubbornness and willpower, but the class was performing horribly, and that was a general consensus by anyone raiding beyond LFR.

The other thing is that post cata Warrior scaling is the opposite of previous scaling. Ever since rage got normalized Warriors don't scale very well with gear compared to other classes. Now with 5.4 most other classes received a blanket nerf with the RPPM nerf. Warriors are literally the only class not affected by it, as we didn't scale with haste in the first place. This means, that this turn around Warriors start out strong, but they won't scale as well as other classes, especially casters that are just starting to get their hands on their new trinkets.

If you actually check raid compositions on progression raiding, with guilds that are already deep into Heroic and have access to more gear, they are starting to completely bench their melee again and replacing them with casters. For the simple reason that casters are starting to pull way ahead, and most mechanics are easier for them anyways.

[Al Gorefiend]

As a PvP warrior I agree with OP about a few brainless changes they made for the sake of brainless players. No longer needing a shield for spell reflect and SHIELD wall? Maybe next patch Warlocks won't need a succubus to cast seduce, who knows?

The things that made me continue to PvP as a Prot Warrior despite the constant shit to my face has been completely handed off. PvP as a Prot had always been a joke, now its just a lame horse. I must be bad at PvP because I don't see myself any more competent at dishing damage than any other spec, though lately I've noticed Death Knights and Resto Druids being near unstoppable to me. Oh well, I don't 1on1 anyways.

[bigrichard]

Warrior kills OP, OP demands nerfs for warrior. In other news, I killed a warrior earlier so I demand that they get more buffs.

[Mihalik]

Intervene no longer breaks roots, all warriors get a new ability that serves as a rootbreak that costs a small amount of rage on a 1 minute cd.

You mean like the MoP beta Heroic Leap, with the 4 piece pvp set bonus?

Look an argument can be made in favor of Intervene root breaker. The correct positioning of the banners to use the root breaker effectively as a gap closer is a fairly skillful thing.

[Teye]

Best thread of 2013.

[Celista]

You have very little clue what about what you are saying. For most of 5.2 and 5.3 Warriors both tanks and dps were completely benched from serious raiding or progression. Yes some Warriors carried the class out of sheer stubbornness and willpower, but the class was performing horribly, and that was a general consensus by anyone raiding beyond LFR.

We have always had warriors in our raid; and our guild, while not a hardcore progression guild, has been top 500 for three expansions now. We haven't completely benched a class since...ever. We even had mages raiding w/us during Sunwell. Our warriors perform very well.

In all fairness, warriors are not the only class who act like the sky is falling every patch (although it feels like it sometimes).

Yes, we've had some caster-heavy tiers but that is more due to faulty encounter design than anything.

[Kazlofski]

Because macros totally take skills...
Why did only warriors have to equip shield to use defensives and be able to do nothing meanwhile while others can keep DPSing normally?

[Coraulten]

Warrior kills OP, OP demands nerfs for warrior. In other news, I killed a warrior earlier so I demand that they get more buffs.

Makes an ignorant statement: Check
Doesn't address issue: Check


OT: They need some utility changes. It must be hard for some casters to do anything vs a semi-skilled warrior.

[Mihalik]

As a PvP warrior I agree with OP about a few brainless changes they made for the sake of brainless players. No longer needing a shield for spell reflect and SHIELD wall? Maybe next patch Warlocks won't need a succubus to cast seduce, who knows?

Did you even play the past 2 patches? Did you play when your shield and 1hander would gray out and become unusable until you zoned, in pvp if someone disarmed your shield? Did you play when you would consistently get cycloned or deep freezed with spell reflect up, despite of only having 35 ms latency? Yes indeed, it was very skillful.

Look I miss Wotlk Stance dancing. But back then, Spell Reflect was on a 10 second cooldown. Missing a single reflect wouldn't be game breaker. Also putting on a shield didn't annihilate your offensive capabilities, as you could Shield Slam (and dispell with it), you had access to a second interrupt, you could block and Revenge Spam melee. You had options. But after Cata all that was essentially gone.

[Al Gorefiend]

Did you even play the past 2 patches? Did you play when your shield and 1hander would gray out and become unusable until you zoned, in pvp if someone disarmed your shield? Did you play when you would consistently get cycloned or deep freezed with spell reflect up, despite of only having 35 ms latency? Yes indeed, it was very skillful.

Look I miss Wotlk Stance dancing. But back then, Spell Reflect was on a 10 second cooldown. Missing a single reflect wouldn't be game breaker. Also putting on a shield didn't annihilate your offensive capabilities, as you could Shield Slam (and dispell with it), you had access to a second interrupt, you could block and Revenge Spam melee. You had options. But after Cata all that was essentially gone.

I miss those days too and unfortunately for the sake of any credibility I've had as a good PvPer I'm not willing to move on.