WoW players have FEELINGS!!!

[Kreeshak]

It becomes everyones business when you slack off in a team setting.

and the solution is called "determination" buff

and another solution I would like is an easy to use "blacklist" interface so you make sure you don't team up with bads/afkers/rudes in the future.

[yjmark]

It's all about communication and understanding who you are talking to. When you don't know who you are talking to, the approach you take can have a big impact on their response. Especially when using text. Things easily get misinterpreted all the time. If you read something - depending on "how" you read it, it can mean completely different things.

The OPs issue was a simple case of misunderstanding. If he was more cautious about the terms he used, it could have gone differently. This comes with experience and awareness.

[bondgirl]

How dare you questioning my skills. Maggot.

No seriously, thats how it is. If I get a reply like this I just take it as a kind response from someone who has nothing left irl. Who maybe got his lunch money stolen from the bigger guys at school and mainly lost his parents through prostitution. Good thing is, there are actualy ppl eager to learn and will isten to your advises. Just don't take it personal or anything

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

and the solution is called "determination" buff

and another solution I would like is an easy to use "blacklist" interface so you make sure you don't team up with bads/afkers/rudes in the future.

Those aren't really solutions, but band aids.

Determination will help a little, sure. But if I have to wipe over and over again, because someone wasnt trying, or thinks its fine to AFK, then it becomes my business when they are wasting my time on purpose.

Same with the blacklist feature. It might help down the line a little, but it won't fix the current problem, and I doubt it would get rid of all the jerks, lazy people, and afkers.

[Flaks]

Regardless of what company line GC and the other devs shout out flex is definitely intended to overtake LFR, either next expansion or towards the one after LFR rewards will be GREATLY diminished to the point of it's hardly worth doing, they just want to make sure enough do flex first.

I think flex should replace LFR AND normal mode personally. Take it back to a WotLK-esque system. Hell I'd even be fine with them making different raids into 10 or 25 man only but instead of being 10/25 man, they'd be flex OR heroic mode, not and.

As it is right now, having a ridiculous number of raid settings and really REALLY diminished from the "world" of this game. You're now doing things because you're trying to get that piece of gear; too bad that piece of gear is uncompelling because there's 3 other versions of it. Hell, you probably won't even remember it's name an expansion from now nor the effort you went through to get that because that will mostly be you having to deal with 24 other aholes.

[Normie]

I also wonder how this is any different? Did he ask for your help? He only asked if that sentence was insulting.

He posted in an online forum. Basically when you do that the expectation is that (if you wrote something interesting or perhaps trolled successfully) soon pages of discussion will follow, dissecting what you just said.

[Pann]

Those aren't really solutions, but band aids.

Determination will help a little, sure. But if I have to wipe over and over again, because someone wasnt trying, or thinks its fine to AFK, then it becomes my business when they are wasting my time on purpose.

Same with the blacklist feature. It might help down the line a little, but it won't fix the current problem, and I doubt it would get rid of all the jerks, lazy people, and afkers.

You don't have to wipe over and over, no one is forcing you, you have the option to leave the group by staying in a group that is not capable of downing a boss it is YOU that is wasting your own time rather than blame others take some responsibility for your choice.

[Grimble]

Regardless of what company line GC and the other devs shout out flex is definitely intended to overtake LFR, either next expansion or towards the one after LFR rewards will be GREATLY diminished to the point of it's hardly worth doing, they just want to make sure enough do flex first.

This is the worst sort of deluded wishful thinking. The way the battered, demoralized, marginalized "real raiding" community has elected Flex their new Great White Hope to defeat the LFR plebians has been nothing short of laughable.

[Deleted]

The thing is that you were supposing a problem to him that he may not have shared. Lets say that you excluded the you're doing less dps than the tank part, then what would be left? Just hey, if u want i can help you with your rotation. Might have produced a different response. If we add the other part again, then what it says is that "I want you to do more dps than the tank and you're not doing this". He may not have shared that desire. Most people only try to do what is good most of the time. Just explaining in case you might find such an explanation useful.

[Ronduwil]

Why because it is a fact? If the guy does less damage than the tank and someone offers advice they can take or leave it, but to answer in such a manner shows that such people are not worth the hassle at all.

So if you wanted to offer someone weight loss tips you're saying that you would open with, "Damn, you're a fat-ass! You're bigger than Pavorotti! Let me give you some weight loss tips..." I'm sorry, but you should expect nothing less than a middle finger and a, "Fuck off."

You might want to read up on the concept of tact. Instead of "Your DPS is worse than the tank's" (which, by the way, isn't saying much seeing as how tanks can do pretty good DPS especially on fights with massive AoE) you should open with "Why X is your top-most ability instead of the Y ability that most warlocks in your spec primarily use?" He may ignore you, in which case you know your advice isn't welcome, but most likely he'll admit that he doesn't know why: it's just what he's always done. At that point he'll be receptive to suggestions. You can be truthful without being hurtful.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

You don't have to wipe over and over, no one is forcing you, you have the option to leave the group by staying in a group that is not capable of downing a boss it is YOU that is wasting your own time rather than blame others take some responsibility for your choice.

False. /10 chars

- - - Updated - - -

So if you wanted to offer someone weight loss tips you're saying that you would open with, "Damn, you're a fat-ass! You're bigger than Pavorotti! Let me give you some weight loss tips..." I'm sorry, but you should expect nothing less than a middle finger and a, "Fuck off."

You might want to read up on the concept of tact. Instead of "Your DPS is worse than the tank's" (which, by the way, isn't saying much seeing as how tanks can do pretty good DPS especially on fights with massive AoE) you should open with "Why X is your top-most ability instead of the Y ability that most warlocks in your spec primarily use?" He may ignore you, in which case you know your advice isn't welcome, but most likely he'll admit that he doesn't know why: it's just what he's always done. At that point he'll be receptive to suggestions. You can be truthful without being hurtful.

Your example is nothing like what the OP stated. Its not equivalent, and not comparable.

[imabanana]

I've seen people kicked for being at the top and the bottom of the charts.

I've seen people kicked for suggesting a strategy.

I got kicked once because i didn't accept a rez within 8 seconds, when I was on a rez timer of 15 seconds.

LFR is like a big traffic jam, lots of impatient, anonymous people with no mechanism for real interpersonal communications.

Best thing in LFR is going in with 4-5 people you know, then you can kick anyone without any reason, since all you need is 5 votes. I've never seen a kick vote fail in LFR, even with no reason at all.

So, yes, you can get kicked for anything, and even for nothing.

and more OT: I've stopped trying to help people in LFR (and flex), unless they ask to, then I have no problems explaining them rotation/stuff/things.

[Aqua]

*Joins website asking for feedback from people he believes to have skills and good advice. Expects to have harsh and helpful criticism as he seeks to improve.*

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*Carrying around notebook, a drawing falls out. Random stranger says, "your lines are really bad, I can help you be better."*

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The difference in these two scenarios is that criticism from your website is both wanted and coming from peers that the artist would respect enough to take their feedback. The random stranger has done/shown absolutely nothing to warrant their advice/criticism.

Sure, your lines are really bad, but who is this guy to tell you anything? Especially when you have an entire website community to help you along, this stranger can go fuck himself.

They're not the same situations.

Just sayin'

Er. No.

And when I was taking classes. Which is MORE what this is like. My teachers and peers would constantly try to 'help me' in this manner.

And however 'bullied' you think that sounds. I turned out 1000 times better for it. Because I took it. Positively.

LFR. Back when this was the only option for randomized group, is like a training class. You queued up for it, you sadly when you raid, submit to having to LEARN something. Whether it is the easiest movement tactic the game has ever thrown your way, or a small add. You are going to be yelled at to change something about how you play. You can either take it gracefully, and better yourself, or ignore everything that comes your way, but don't ask people willing to succeed and help other players improve stifle themselves so that Little Jimmy can keep his self esteem... Esteem!? I mean you lot PLAY league of legends or Dota2 right? Have you SEEN the kind of 'help' those lot consider 'formal' or 'polite'?!

I'm sorry the more people parrot this back at me the more coddled everyone sounds.

But honestly as I have said previously. Sod Lfr. Fuck people like this. Never going back.

So don't worry, my special brand of help will keep your fragile ego intact.

Just. Sayin.'

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The difference in these two scenarios is that criticism from your website is both wanted and coming from peers that the artist would respect enough to take their feedback. The random stranger has done/shown absolutely nothing to warrant their advice/criticism.

Sure, your lines are really bad, but who is this guy to tell you anything? Especially when you have an entire website community to help you along, this stranger can go fuck himself.

With this outlook on life, of course you feel bullied when someone tries to help you. Sorry, but criticism and help aren't BAD things that should make you feel BAD. Why not feel appreciative that someone would go out of their way, and use the small amount of time they get to help you?

Arrogance, is why. Not keeping your ego in check.

[Louis CK]

With this outlook on life, of course you feel bullied when someone tries to help you. Sorry, but criticism and help aren't BAD things that should make you feel BAD. Why not feel appreciative that someone would go out of their way, and use the small amount of time they get to help you?

Arrogance, is why. Not keeping your ego in check.

In response to you and Aqua:

Please do not mistake my attempt to help the OP with communication as indicative of myself.

My case is not one to defend myself, nor is it to defend bad players. It's simply a realistic look at how those bad players respond when strangers offer unwanted feedback with an attempt at advice to bring him better results in the future. It's not a question of whether he's right about this bad player, or if his statements were untrue, but it's a matter of effectively opening up his audience to hear what he's saying when offering said advice, and I'm 100% sure the advice I've provided in this thread, if taken, will produce better results. Whether or not one decides to use it is completely up to them. He can choose to beat his head against a wall by providing advice in the manner he has, or he can get better results. It doesn't really affect me one way or the other.

As for me, I've stated before that I'm not an "I'm okay, you're okay" type player, but I do realize what LFR is and what it entails. I never go in with the expectation to find greatness. I go into LFR and keep my mouth shut, because honestly, it's too much work to try and turn most of them into anything workable.

Now, if I'm running a raid and someone joins, there is no advice. I expect them to know what they're doing, and if they don't do it they're gone. I have very high expectations for those with whom I raid (in real raids), and even higher expectations for myrself.

I don't play the game to babysit. If someone asks for help, I'll be more than happy to help them improve, but in my mind, if they're playing bad and don't care, then they can enjoy their life of daily quests and bad LFR performance, because I have more important things to worry about than the performance of kids in LFR. If they're really SO bad that they can't get through LFR, they can get the boot. Otherwise, it's not my headache to have.

And lemon, I like you. Just sayin. Are you Horde?

[godded]

as long as the couch gets moved nobody should pick on the third guy who is just pretending to move it.

I've been doing it wrong all these years.

Personally I hate people who don't pull their weight and wear a group down. At least IRL. In WoW however, I just don't join LFR.

Also I really think that if a person asks you kindly if he can help you with your rotation and you answer with profanity, it makes you look like a d-bag :/

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

In response to you and Aqua:

Please do not mistake my attempt to help the OP with communication as indicative of myself.

My case is not one to defend myself, nor is it to defend bad players. It's simply a realistic look at how those bad players respond when strangers offer unwanted feedback with an attempt at advice to bring him better results in the future. It's not a question of whether he's right about this bad player, or if his statements were untrue, but it's a matter of effectively opening up his audience to hear what he's saying when offering said advice, and I'm 100% sure the advice I've provided in this thread, if taken, will produce better results. Whether or not one decides to use it is completely up to them. He can choose to beat his head against a wall by providing advice in the manner he has, or he can get better results. It doesn't really affect me one way or the other.

And lemon, I like you. Just sayin. Are you Horde?

I guess I have been jumping too many threads. I agree with everything you've said. I just feel like people are overly sensitive about criticisms. But true, communication is key in almost anything. (Especially criticism)

ANd I have a few horde. I have started out and still main alliance.

[Mirishka]

I have noticed this in my last LFR. When I told a fellow warlock "hey , you're doing less dps then the tank, if you want I can help you with your rotation".

Well frankly, you sounded like a douchebag. However noble your intention might have been, coming right out of the gate with essentially 'loltankz outdpsing u' set you up for a rude response. The best time to offer advice is when its actually asked of you. And if you choose to ignore that, don't open/begin with an insult.

"Hey, you kinda look like crap, if you want I can give you some makeup tips" is basically what you said to him.

With my hunter I've gotten back into the habit of running dungeons/scenarios here and there (I hadn't done either in several months) and generally speaking, people tend to notice my dps pretty quickly. Earlier this morning a paladin asked me 'how on earth' my dps was so high, said she couldn't come anywhere close to that on her hunter alt. I asked what her ilevel was, she said 490. I explained that the 50+ ilevel difference between us was a big part of it, but I told her I'd be happy to talk hunters after the dungeon was over. She stayed in group and we discussed the opener for BM spec, the changes that we got in 5.4 and which talents generally work best for which situations. She thanked me several times and asked if she could battletag me, I said sure.

That's the only kind of circumstance in which I'm going to give someone advice on 'how2play' their toon.

[wych]

and the solution is called "determination" buff

and another solution I would like is an easy to use "blacklist" interface so you make sure you don't team up with bads/afkers/rudes in the future.

The solution isn't acceptable as determination since in the first place it's the slacking arseholes making us wipe

[judgementofantonidas]

LFR is one of most reasons, why i still consider to upgrade my account or not...

See all your expiriences with LFR, i really worried about that... Also Flexible can be even worse, than LFR?

Yes. Since flex is also cross server. The LFR heroes of the past are using social networking addons to get in Flex groups that are for lack of a better word, terribad.