What is the inherent reason to have only dual spec

[NightZero88]

If we're gonna use the 'if you don't like it don't use it' bullshit then how bout this, if you don't like the game don't play it. Don't change it because of a VERY SLIGHT inconvenience of having to go to a major city...like you don't hang out in one half the time anyways...

Well given your stance on this I hope you complained equally about progressive nerfs to raids, flight paths, mounts, portals to major cities, etc. Because it is all about convenience. I trust you never use any of these things ever because if you do you are a hypocrite.

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Better yet, just scrap specs altogether. Give all spec abilities/passives to the class baseline. Just put in action bar saving to go with the gear saving we've already got.

There is a very big difference between scrapping specs and giving tri-spec. If I have tri-spec I can still only heal or dps or tank during any given encounter. If you scrap specs and give all abilities to a class at all times they can tank, heal and dps all at once. We're not asking to be able to everything at once, we're simply asking for the ability to freely switch between specs without having to hearth, retrain, set up bars and get summoned back. There is a big difference between the two.

[Dormie]

Well given your stance on this I hope you complained equally about progressive nerfs to raids, flight paths, mounts, portals to major cities, etc. Because it is all about convenience. I trust you never use any of these things ever because if you do you are a hypocrite.

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There is a very big difference between scrapping specs and giving tri-spec. If I have tri-spec I can still only heal or dps or tank during any given encounter. If you scrap specs and give all abilities to a class at all times they can tank, heal and dps all at once. We're not asking to be able to everything at once, we're simply asking for the ability to freely switch between specs without having to hearth, retrain, set up bars and get summoned back. There is a big difference between the two.

I do have problems with that stuff. Using them doesn't make me a hypocrite, people will always take the easiest path, it's up to Blizzard to make the smart decisions. I'd enjoy a bike ride to work more than a car ride, but I'm still gonna drive.

[NightZero88]

I do have problems with that stuff. Using them doesn't make me a hypocrite, people will always take the easiest path, it's up to Blizzard to make the smart decisions. I'd enjoy a bike ride to work more than a car ride, but I'm still gonna drive.

Then you can't complain about the car. Which in this example you're doing. Say they add tri-spec and you start using it on an alt. You can't then go and say this stupid tri-spec is dumb and Blizz are idiots for implementing it. I mean you can do that but it'd be hypocritical because you are reaping the benefits of tri-spec while at the same time saying it's dumb.

[Jessicka]

The reasons why there was only one spec to use do not apply anymore as the negatives simply do not exist as a real part of the game.

Actually, the reasons dual spec was added no longer exist.

[FobManX]

Because there needs to be come consequence to your choices.

[Dormie]

Then you can't complain about the car. Which in this example you're doing. Say they add tri-spec and you start using it on an alt. You can't then go and say this stupid tri-spec is dumb and Blizz are idiots for implementing it. I mean you can do that but it'd be hypocritical because you are reaping the benefits of tri-spec while at the same time saying it's dumb.

Things can have positives and negatives at the same time...

[NightZero88]

Things can have positives and negatives at the same time...

Yes they certainly can. Tri-spec doesn't have negatives though. Additionally, while something can be positive and negative I can't say I hate this but I'm still going to use it anyway because it's nice. For instance, I can't say I hate cars because they pollute the atmosphere and everyone should ride bikes instead but I'm going to use my car to get to work because I don't want to ride my bike there.

[Breccia]

** Mages can now instantly tramsport to any zone in any continent in the game, at any time, with no gold cost.

I see no negatives here. Wait, you don't play a mage? Well I do, and I think this is very convenient. You can't hate it just because it doesn't benefit you.

** Three times per day, warriors can instantly solve any daily quest they're eligible for without performing the needed actions.

Wow, I have a warrior and I like this change! It is very convenient for me! Oh, you don't play a warrior? Don't hate it just because it doesn't benefit you. It benefits me, and I see no downsides. Even if it only benefits 1% of the population by 1%, it's worth adding, right? Right?

** Horde players may now accept and complete Alliance quests in all non-capital cities. NPCs and guards in those settlements will not attack.

Guess which faction would complain about this. But...there's no downsides, right? Alliance players aren't being penalized for rolling Alliance, they're just not getting the bonus of playing Horde. Everyone wins! Except the Alliance, but who cares, that's only half the playerbase.

** Warlocks now instantly jump to Honored in all factions they would otherwise encounter as Neutral, through a new ability called "Don't Make Me Eat Your Childrens' Souls In Front Of You"

What? It's not like they wouldn't get to Honored eventually. This is just for convenience.

** Death Knights now instantly advance to level 55. Other classes, such as monks, still start at one.

Just because you don't...ok, bad example. This one actually happened.

** In raid encounters, all priests are instantly moved out of zones on the ground that cause damage.

I'm sure all good players would have moved out in a second or two anyhow. I mean, doesn't everyone move out of the fire? Don't they install addons like GTFO that yell at them when this happens? This just makes priests do it faster, without the rest of the party having to worry. Hell, priests have Life Grip. This seems like a clear winner. Blizzard should do this, there is no reason not to. Unless you hate bad priests. You don't hate bad priests, do you?

** Rogues in Stealth shave off 5 minutes of any LFD or Battleground queue (cooldown 1 hour). Other queue times remain unchanged.

** All Blacksmithing results now cause your skill to jump 2 points instead of one. Other professions remain unchanged.

** The Time-Lost Proto-Drake has a 5% chance to appear in a phased form that only people with maxxed Archaelogy can see.

** Tauren have a wider circle to land in for the Darkmoon Faire cannon contest.

** Players named Breccia now have 10% more ridiculously sarcastic examples

Giving a pure bonus to some players, which the other players cannot take advantage of, is not a situation you can say "has no negatives". Call it a Hybrid Tax if you want. The best you can argue is that the existing situation is an unwarranted penalty for three-role classes, which by the very virtue of having three roles and not two, I don't think you can call "unwarranted" since nobody else has that ability. Making them pay for that ability is just as justified as giving another class a bonus because they don't have the three-role ability.

When was the last time you, in LFD and/or LFR, saw someone say "this boss is done, so everyone go respec for the next fight, you all know what spec and talents you should have". In LFR. Have you ever seen that? I doubt you have. I have been in a big pile of random dungeons and raids, and nobody has suggested it even once. If you're going for progression, absolutely, but everyone is in the same boat there. But the extremely low number of times it's even suggested in LFR, let alone actually done, implies that respeccing for each situation isn't always mandatory. If we're talking about "most" players, I honestly think that "most" players, the majority of the entire WoW playerbase, either don't raid, or don't raid seriously enough to require tri-spec..and of those who do, three specs probably isn't enough anyhow.

It's not mandatory. The penalty for three-role classes in serious raiding situations is an acceptable Hybrid Tax to pay in exchange for the benefit of having three roles. There is no need to add another feature which not only doesn't benefit half the classes, but possibly over half the players as well. The status quo is fine.

[Sarcon]

Jesus Christ.. The WoW player base has gotten so damned entitled. We always beg for every little convenience we can get and then as soon as we get it we start laughing at how faceroll the game has become. There's no pleasing us.

They've said a few times the reason they don't want to do tri-spec is it would make every player of the same class virtually the same. We have three specs to choose from, now we can choose them all!(Except Druids obviously) Where's the fun in that?

[NightZero88]

Examples cut to reduce length

The issue with all your examples is that they are adding something that doesn't already exist in game. Let's look at how it is now versus what it would be shall we?

How it is now: I download a 3rd party addon that saves my bar layout and configure it properly ahead of time. I am resto/balance. On Tuesday's raid we need a tank because ours didn't show up. I hearth, reset my spec, pick guardian, set up all my talents, use 3rd party addon to set my bars and get summoned back. This whole process could take me as little as one minute.

How it would be: I click the 3rd spec button on my list and change to guardian. My bars have already been saved without needing a 3rd party addon and I do not need to hearth and get summoned back.

The point I'm illustrating above is that this process already exists. We can all already do it. The ONLY thing adding a 3rd spec would do is reduce the time I have to spend hearthing and coming back and save me the trouble of downloading a 3rd party addon and instead using a built in system. What are you stating with your ridiculous examples is adding extra things into the game that were not there before. Which is why they do not compare at all to the tri-spec idea.

When was the last time you, in LFD and/or LFR, saw someone say "this boss is done, so everyone go respec for the next fight, you all know what spec and talents you should have". In LFR. Have you ever seen that? I doubt you have. I have been in a big pile of random dungeons and raids, and nobody has suggested it even once. If you're going for progression, absolutely, but everyone is in the same boat there. But the extremely low number of times it's even suggested in LFR, let alone actually done, implies that respeccing for each situation isn't always mandatory. If we're talking about "most" players, I honestly think that "most" players, the majority of the entire WoW playerbase, either don't raid, or don't raid seriously enough to require tri-spec..and of those who do, three specs probably isn't enough anyhow.

You're right, I've never heard it before which is why I'm saying it won't start now which is what the majority of people against tri-spec fear. Glad we agree here.

It's not mandatory. The penalty for three-role classes in serious raiding situations is an acceptable Hybrid Tax to pay in exchange for the benefit of having three roles. There is no need to add another feature which not only doesn't benefit half the classes, but possibly over half the players as well. The status quo is fine.

Except there is no tax because I can already do it by hearthing and changing spec. Unless your hybrid tax is 5 extra minutes of changing talents and hearthing/being resummoned back to my raid. In which case I just have to simply shake my head because that is out there.

And maybe the status quo is fine to you but not to me and why do I not get a right to voice my opinions? You still haven't shown any example of how tri-spec has a downside. All you've done is come up with ridiculous examples to try and prove a point that because it only helps a certain part of the game it doesn't help others. Which by the way isn't true. By allowing tri-spec you would introduce more people playing other roles. Take myself for example, as I have said I have resto/balance. But I also have a 490 ilevel tank set from old raids. I queue up for LFR and my wait is 10 minutes as resto and 30 as balance. I hit my 3rd spec button and now am a tank and my queue time is instant. I queue up and group starts. What did this do? Well, it reduced the wait time of all the people in my group and all future groups as a result. This helps everyone and I am only 1 person. Even if only .1% of the wow population does this it is still a benefit for everyone. You are still getting an indirect benefit from tri-spec if not a direct benefit.

[NightZero88]

Jesus Christ.. The WoW player base has gotten so damned entitled. We always beg for every little convenience we can get and then as soon as we get it we start laughing at how faceroll the game has become. There's no pleasing us.

The inherent flaw in this argument is that every person is arguing for everything. You say I argue for every convenience then laugh at how faceroll the game is. While there are certainly people in both camps, I argue for convenience but don't give two shits about how faceroll the game is. I never complain about that. Your argument however is based on the position that all people say they want one thing then as soon as they get it complain about having gotten it when in actuality one group is saying they want something then another separate group is complaining that the first group got it. This is the nature of the world, you can please some of the people all the time or all the people some of the time but you cannot please all the people all the time.

They've said a few times the reason they don't want to do tri-spec is it would make every player of the same class virtually the same. We have three specs to choose from, now we can choose them all!(Except Druids obviously) Where's the fun in that?

Again this has been brought up and responded too. Tri-spec already exists. I simply have to spend 5 more minutes to do it. So please tell me how saving myself 5 minutes makes things any different except by convenience? It doesn't. Additionally, every person is always the same because everyone looks up on forums what the top players are doing for every fight and specs that way. There has never been a difference amongst mage A and mage B except for player skill and gear.

[Velthy]

Lol be happy with it. I remember when i had to respec before the raid (or even certain bosses) when the guild needed dps.

[Deficineiron]

** Warlocks now instantly jump to Honored in all factions they would otherwise encounter as Neutral, through a new ability called "Don't Make Me Eat Your Childrens' Souls In Front Of You"

my laugh of the day, thank you.

notable that blood elves are were? initially friendly with scryer until/if they choose a faction via the very long escort quest.

[namelessone]

You should be thankful you have two. They said that if the current talent system was in the game when they made decision to make dual spec, they would have stayed with one.

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So please tell me how saving myself 5 minutes makes things any different except by convenience? It doesn't.

Actually increased convenience can really affect gameplay in a major way. Good example is Diablo 3 auction house. Technically people could still trade items in D2, but added convenience made it basically the only way to play and forced them to balance entire game around it.

[Deficineiron]

You should be thankful you have two. They said that if the current talent system was in the game when they made decision to make dual spec, they would have stayed with one.

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Actually increased convenience can really affect gameplay in a major way. Good example is Diablo 3 auction house. Technically people could still trade items in D2, but added convenience made it basically the only way to play and forced them to balance entire game around it.

or as a counter-point, imagine wow with no auction house - you can still buy/sell/trade, but it is all done in some chat format, maybe set up a 'market' zone where you can list wares, etc., in a way other market-zone players can see, while you are present in the zone. kind of like enchanting used to be - physically present.

as you note, easy of trading is a central element in the game.

[NightZero88]

Actually increased convenience can really affect gameplay in a major way. Good example is Diablo 3 auction house. Technically people could still trade items in D2, but added convenience made it basically the only way to play and forced them to balance entire game around it.

No, it wasn't that the AH being convenient made it the only way to play its the fact that Blizz made 99.9999999999999999% of items dropped garbage so you had to use the AH to have any chance of getting upgrades. It wasn't convenience it was that Blizz designed drop loots in a retarded manner. For example..int dropping on a crossbow. The only person who can use a crossbow would never want int ever. That is just stupidity.

[Breccia]

How it is now: I download a 3rd party addon that saves my bar layout and configure it properly ahead of time. I am resto/balance. On Tuesday's raid we need a tank because ours didn't show up. I hearth, reset my spec, pick guardian, set up all my talents, use 3rd party addon to set my bars and get summoned back. This whole process could take me as little as one minute.

What you are asking for is that become gold-free and instant. That is something that doesn't exist in the game, any more than making quests complete by clicking on the new warrior-only feature.

Except there is no tax because I can already do it by hearthing and changing spec. Unless your hybrid tax is 5 extra minutes of changing talents and hearthing/being resummoned back to my raid. In which case I just have to simply shake my head because that is out there.

I was saying exactly that. Time and money spent to access a feature is a form of payment, a "tax" if you will, for accessing the feature. You do it with mounts, with professions, with factions, and with gear. I see no reason why the feature "I can be any role at any time, which most characters cannot do" should be free and instant. Do you remember weapon skills? I do. A (Fury) warrior had to spend more time than, say, a (Enh) shaman, levelling up weapons, if they wanted to use all that were available. And that was fine, because the payout was the warrior can use more weapon types than a shaman. If the rule became "once you max out three weapon skills, you get the rest for free" I think that would be unfair to the shaman. When everyone got full weapon skills for free, I was against that, too. Not nearly enough to quit, mind you (and same with tri-spec, just to be clear: I think it's a bad idea, bad enough to not implement, but not bad enough to quit in protest). I think respeccing all the time fits in the same situation. Are you willing to spend more time/effort/money to be more versatile? If so, play a druid or paladin or whatever and go nuts. If not, then two specs should be good enough for most situations. (Most, not all)

You are still getting an indirect benefit from tri-spec if not a direct benefit.

I am willing to say most of our points of contention have been about opinion and matters of taste and/or playstyle. However, I disagree with the idea that giving someone else an unwarranted (key word) bonus, which is not shared by others, is worthwhile because you indirectly benefit. Otherwise, why not have warriors do 400% more damage than everyone else? I play a warrior and I'd be livid if that happened. If you raid with a warrior, you get an indirect benefit. A benefit you cannot directly use yourself (unless you are a warrior) and should, quite frankly, be upset that I have, because having warriors do 5X damage is just stupid. I don't think you'd support that change, either, no matter who or what you play. What about 300% more? 200%? At what point are you, you who almost certainly raid with at least one warrior, willing to draw the line between how much more damage than everyone else a warrior should be allowed to do, just because they play a warrior and no other reason?

There's a joke that fits the situation: "Are you a prostitute? No? Would you sleep with me for a billion dollars? Yes? Then you are a prostitute. Now we're just haggling over the price." How much more damage would you be willing to let a warrior do than everyone else, just for being a warrior? If your answer is anything other than zero, then you are saying it is ok for classes to be inherently unfair and unbalanced. If there is no reason for one class to get an unwarranted damage boost, then there is no reason for one class to unwarranted utility boost, either.

If my office mate across the hall suddenly got $50,000 per year more for doing the exactly the same job they were doing before, that's great for them, and they'll probably throw in more for pizza every now and then so I indirectly benefit. But if we do exactly the same job exactly the same way, I think I'd feel justifiably irate for not getting the same bonus, even though it does not hurt me. Because it would be unwarranted that they get that, and it stinks of unfairness, maybe even lawsuit territory, that they did. Sorry, no, you could potentially convince me on other points, but that excuse doesn't fly.

I still think that tri-spec is unnecessary. You seem to think so yourself: you keep saying that it basically already exists, and takes marginal effort, so clearly the status quo is fine. I also think that it has downsides, the one I keep mentioning here being that giving someone an unwarranted bonus, but leaving everyone else alone, is not fair. Unfairness is an inherent negative. Letting someone in a class with three roles remove the current restrictions on using all three at once, is an unwarranted bonus over classes that don't have that option at all. It diminishes the value of two-role classes, and even further one-roll classes, by basically saying "you chose wrong, because paladins can do everything you can and more". It will cause changes in the way raid groups are formed and run: not all raids will do this, but enough will start stacking three-role classes to make an overall negative effect. You say it won't, but if even 0.1% of the raid groups have this happen, then it should not happen, unless there is an upside (to use your own logic). If you were hiring at a job, and one person could do three jobs for the same money and in the same time as someone else could do two, and there were no other differences, why would you hire the one who could do two? If you say "because the warrior has Skull Banner" then you're heading back to shaman-for-bloodlust and paladins-for-kings Vanilla, something I think is highly undesired and something Blizz is trying to actively prevent. I don't want a two-role class, like warrior, to be a detriment, only there for one or two abilities unique to them. I want them to be as viable as everyone else. Having people forced to change their playstyle so that others have it more convenient, when you yourself keep saying how miniscule this benefit would be, is not an acceptable payment. And saying "well that RL is a jerk" isn't enough. The fact that it would even be entertained as an option is a downside.

And finally, I see no reason for the devs to spend time on this feature, plus any required balances made because of this feature ("a 10N group probably has five people who can heal, so let's make the monster have low HP but do amazing raid damage which we know they can choose to survive by having five people heal") when you keep saying it basically already exists. It looks like you have this under control. Changing the game to make your class better than mine because you don't like spending a minute hearthing is not called for enough to add this feature.

But I won't quit if they do. I'd think it was ill-advised, but I'd play just as much as you do, now, with no tri-spec.

Also your sig is awesome.

[checking facts]

the reason is choice. if you can take all the 3 specs, you don't get any choice on it.

if we had 4 or 5 specs each, tri-spec would have a reason to be.

[NightZero88]

What you are asking for is that become gold-free and instant. That is something that doesn't exist in the game, any more than making quests complete by clicking on the new warrior-only feature.

Actually no, I'd be fine with it costing gold and having a CD. It costs me 50g to respec and we'll say 5 minutes. I'd be perfectly fine with the same costs being applied to using a 3rd spec. Really I don't even mind the hearthing what I hate is only being able to save 2 sets of bars. And I don't want to download a 3rd party addon to fix that issue.

I was saying exactly that. Time and money spent to access a feature is a form of payment, a "tax" if you will, for accessing the feature. You do it with mounts, with professions, with factions, and with gear. I see no reason why the feature "I can be any role at any time, which most characters cannot do" should be free and instant. Do you remember weapon skills? I do. A (Fury) warrior had to spend more time than, say, a (Enh) shaman, levelling up weapons, if they wanted to use all that were available. And that was fine, because the payout was the warrior can use more weapon types than a shaman. If the rule became "once you max out three weapon skills, you get the rest for free" I think that would be unfair to the shaman. When everyone got full weapon skills for free, I was against that, too. Not nearly enough to quit, mind you (and same with tri-spec, just to be clear: I think it's a bad idea, bad enough to not implement, but not bad enough to quit in protest). I think respeccing all the time fits in the same situation. Are you willing to spend more time/effort/money to be more versatile? If so, play a druid or paladin or whatever and go nuts. If not, then two specs should be good enough for most situations. (Most, not all)

See my above about being fine with it having a cost and a CD.

I am willing to say most of our points of contention have been about opinion and matters of taste and/or playstyle. However, I disagree with the idea that giving someone else an unwarranted (key word) bonus, which is not shared by others, is worthwhile because you indirectly benefit. Otherwise, why not have warriors do 400% more damage than everyone else? I play a warrior and I'd be livid if that happened. If you raid with a warrior, you get an indirect benefit. A benefit you cannot directly use yourself (unless you are a warrior) and should, quite frankly, be upset that I have, because having warriors do 5X damage is just stupid. I don't think you'd support that change, either, no matter who or what you play. What about 300% more? 200%? At what point are you, you who almost certainly raid with at least one warrior, willing to draw the line between how much more damage than everyone else a warrior should be allowed to do, just because they play a warrior and no other reason?

I can see your point, I just can't agree with the fact that comparing allowing ALL people the ability to change spec any time is the same as letting one class have X% more damage or whatever. Yes, a druid may get more benefit from it but everyone can use it. Additionally, I can see where you are coming from about benefits versus side benefits in terms of a warrior doing X% more helping me because we kill things faster but I still don't think you can compare that to helping the queue times of all because I can queue as a tank. I will state that you can make that comparison in saying I am getting a benefit because I get a faster queue and that benefits you because so do you in the same way as killing things faster because they get a bonus.

There's a joke that fits the situation: "Are you a prostitute? No? Would you sleep with me for a billion dollars? Yes? Then you are a prostitute. Now we're just haggling over the price." How much more damage would you be willing to let a warrior do than everyone else, just for being a warrior? If your answer is anything other than zero, then you are saying it is ok for classes to be inherently unfair and unbalanced. If there is no reason for one class to get an unwarranted damage boost, then there is no reason for one class to unwarranted utility boost, either.

Fair point. But it's not just for one class it's for everyone. Everyone has 3 specs. If there was a class with only 2 specs then this would be reasonable but everyone could use tri-spec to always have access to all 3 of their specs whether you want to play them all or not.

I still think that tri-spec is unnecessary. You seem to think so yourself: you keep saying that it basically already exists, and takes marginal effort, so clearly the status quo is fine. I also think that it has downsides, the one I keep mentioning here being that giving someone an unwarranted bonus, but leaving everyone else alone, is not fair. Unfairness is an inherent negative. Letting someone in a class with three roles remove the current restrictions on using all three at once, is an unwarranted bonus over classes that don't have that option at all. It diminishes the value of two-role classes, and even further one-roll classes, by basically saying "you chose wrong, because paladins can do everything you can and more". It will cause changes in the way raid groups are formed and run: not all raids will do this, but enough will start stacking three-role classes to make an overall negative effect. You say it won't, but if even 0.1% of the raid groups have this happen, then it should not happen, unless there is an upside (to use your own logic). If you were hiring at a job, and one person could do three jobs for the same money and in the same time as someone else could do two, and there were no other differences, why would you hire the one who could do two? If you say "because the warrior has Skull Banner" then you're heading back to shaman-for-bloodlust and paladins-for-kings Vanilla, something I think is highly undesired and something Blizz is trying to actively prevent. I don't want a two-role class, like warrior, to be a detriment, only there for one or two abilities unique to them. I want them to be as viable as everyone else. Having people forced to change their playstyle so that others have it more convenient, when you yourself keep saying how miniscule this benefit would be, is not an acceptable payment. And saying "well that RL is a jerk" isn't enough. The fact that it would even be entertained as an option is a downside.

Then why isn't it happening now? Why do Paragon and Method not have rosters full of druids, pallys and monks? We both agree that tri-spec already exists in a manner so why doesn't this happen currently?

And finally, I see no reason for the devs to spend time on this feature, plus any required balances made because of this feature ("a 10N group probably has five people who can heal, so let's make the monster have low HP but do amazing raid damage which we know they can choose to survive by having five people heal") when you keep saying it basically already exists. It looks like you have this under control. Changing the game to make your class better than mine because you don't like spending a minute hearthing is not called for enough to add this feature.

Well first I doubt it'd take much coding but I could be wrong. Second there wouldn't need to be any balance changes because nothing is changing in terms of skills or abilities. Third, in regards to your statement about the devs doing a fight like that, they could do it now. Many fights have been cheesed by bringing a 4th healer or a 3rd tank. And finally how is it changing the game to make my class better than yours? I mean..druids already are better than everyone else... but our classes are exactly the same as they were before the only thing that changed is 5-10 minutes less work on my part.

Also your sig is awesome.

Yes, I like it. Sonridor did a very nice job. I used to make sigs but I lost my copy of PS and I don't want to spend $500 buying a new copy..

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I do have problems with that stuff. Using them doesn't make me a hypocrite, people will always take the easiest path, it's up to Blizzard to make the smart decisions. I'd enjoy a bike ride to work more than a car ride, but I'm still gonna drive.

Thats not an equal example. You enjoy both types of rides in that scenario.

If you bitch about portals in major cities, then use it, you're a hypocrite.