When did the Chinese/Asia stop being part of the "WORLD"?

[Wiyld]

We should get mad that the Super Bowl winners claim to be the world champions. After all, unless they play against the best team from every other country how can they possibly claim that?

[Wyattbw09]

The problem is all semantics. We tend to think of the World First kill as the best kill. It is not Asia's fault they play under a different rule set. Thus they get a "World First" kill. The kill has less meaning because the rule set in NA/EU is different adding a greater deal of challenge. We simply have to get past the idea that World First is the most prestigious kill.

[Deleted]

Discussed in great topic in raid forum, this is just trying to stir up trouble. As clearly stated they play a different version of the game.

Grats to Method on World first.

[Reyzzz]

The Chinese/Asia are part of the "World" are they not? Did they not kill the last boss on heroic first?

Cheating invalidates their achievement, not a hard concept to grasp, right?

[netjunke]

This well end well.

Now from my limited knowledge of their setup, do the bosses not have more HP and damage to compensate for the higher item level? If so it would put them on a similar footing, and I would regard it as a case of them being counted as part of the race.

Personally I would move away from world first and do regions, considering US gets a head start on EU and Asia being on a slightly different setup I would say it should be a case of record each kill from any region as just that. Discriminating the Asian servers from our lists and then labeling any kill as a world first seems a bit arrogant imo. Doing Region 1st kills makes more sense.

This is accurate for 25m but NOT for 10m ... and the Asian guild kill that everyone is referring to is a 10m kill which is NOT scaled to their higher lvl gear. So basically their "world first" 10m kill is like someone with heroic SoO gear killing Lei Shen & saying "YEA we killed him first" ... unfair advantage means they're disqualified from the race

[Azrile]

Ion:

Bosses have increased health pools, so besides the double lockout it should be more or less equivalent.

I guess ocidentals are butthurt because orientals win in any sort of competitive game. It's like "meh, they are Chinese, I can't compete".

But you are failing to mention that they only killed him on 10M which does not have the increased health and damage. If they had killed him on 25M where their higher ilvl was offset by the higher health and damage of Garrosh, then this would be a debate. But the fact that they could not kill him on 25M, and then went back to 10M with their higher ilvl gear against a boss without the HP and damage boost makes this an easy call.

World first is about killing the boss on the hardest difficulty. In China, 10M is significantly weaker than 25M.

[Deleted]

I find the 'world' first title laughable if someone has already beaten you to it. Even if it was with an advantage. Calling it world first blatantly excludes china/asia. pretty nasty slap in the face if you ask me.

The fact that they have access to better equipment would put them in league above EU/US in my book... Formula 1 racing isn't the same as Formula 2, and that's not just due to skill it's also a large part due to equipment.
So yes you should look at them separate, but calling reward the world first title to the highest league and not the runner up.

[Stacie]

The problem is all semantics. We tend to think of the World First kill as the best kill. It is not Asia's fault they play under a different rule set. Thus they get a "World First" kill. The kill has less meaning because the rule set in NA/EU is different adding a greater deal of challenge. We simply have to get past the idea that World First is the most prestigious kill.

This exactly.

[Torais]

So olympic runners should be allowed take perfomance enhancing drugs? First is first.

Naa lets let them bring dirtbikes to the races. Because in the eyes of some of the asian fanboys like the OP, rules don't actually matter as long as you are first.

[xebtria]

So olympic runners should be allowed take perfomance enhancing drugs? First is first.

olympic marathon runners should go to highschool olympics where only students apply and take performance enhancing drugs to break the school's 10 kilometer race record.
first is first.
still won't be listed as school record holders.

as a short term, they may have the world first (technically), but they are not part of the competition due to the advantages they have, so in the world first race which takes place on EU and US servers, they are not going to be listed.

on a funny side note, i like it how an EU guild managed to kill it first, and the US guild who has an ~9 hours (or even more, not sure about this) head start due to earlier ID resets has not managed to use this as their advantage.

there should be a cleaned list which takes timezone differences into account. so maybe next time an US guild will kill it 3 hours before an EU guild - but this still makes the EU guild the world first by a whooping 6 hrs because of timezone cleanup.


US rage will be even more

[ItachiZaku]

Just wondering really as i always figured they were part of the "WORLD" and this whole world first heroic kill applied to all people all over the world.

The Chinese/Asia are part of the "World" are they not? Did they not kill the last boss on heroic first?

Why are people discriminating against the Chinese/Asia. Do you think they are "lesser people".

Lable the kill "EU/US FIRST" sure but not "WORLD FIRST" that is just not accurate you are devaluing the Chinese/Asia they play this game also and are just as much a part of it as you.

I expect allot of EU/US is harder, Chinese/Asin's had better kit etc etc, but no just no! They should not apply at all they still got the "WORLD FIRST HEROIC".

You could extend this to other things and just call it American Elistism. MLB plays the "World" series, yet I bet when the Red Sox win it all this season, they would lose a best of 7 to The Giants or Eagles (can't fuck with Tanaka).

[khalltusk]

You see, that is what you don´t understand. YES.. the bosses on 25M have more health and do more damage.. and they give higher ilvl loot. But the world first kill was done on 10M using the loot from 25M. The 10M does NOT have higher health and hps.

In EU and USA, Heroic Garrosh is the most difficult encounter. The guild from China did NOT kill the hardest boss they have, which is 25M with the higher health and damage to compensate for the higher ilvl gear.

What the bloody hell are you on about, I thought 10m and 25m shared the same item level loot? The only thing being 25man drops slightly more loot than 10man? (unless 25man in asia drops more than 10man which is fair enough anyone killing it like should be taken out of the 10man race)

I am fully aware of what they killed but the fact remains that this silly "world" first bullshit should be dropped and should be down to regions and what scale the encounter was done on 10/25. So you can have

EU first 10 or 25man recorded separately
US first 10 or 25man recorded separately
Asia first 10 or 25man recorded separately

That would be a fair way of reporting it.

[Deleted]

The Chinese/Asia are part of the "World" are they not? Did they not kill the last boss on heroic first?

Why are people discriminating against the Chinese/Asia. Do you think they are "lesser people".

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the asian version of WoW being different from the EU/US version. The asian version has quite a few advantages. I do remember reading that raids reset twice a week in the asian version, I'm not sure if that's still the case but I do know that they have advantages like that. And that's why there is the differentiation on the front page between Chinese/Asia and US/EU.

[Louis CK]

*SNIP*

Grats to Method on World first.

Just gonna leave this here. QFT.

[Azrile]

The problem is all semantics. We tend to think of the World First kill as the best kill. It is not Asia's fault they play under a different rule set. Thus they get a "World First" kill. The kill has less meaning because the rule set in NA/EU is different adding a greater deal of challenge. We simply have to get past the idea that World First is the most prestigious kill.

Prestige goes to the group that kills the hardest version of the end boss of a raid. While we can debate EU.USA 10M vs 25M as being hardest, the fact is they are designed to be about as difficult as each other. In Asia, the bosses are clearly designed to where 25M is more difficult than 10M. The 10M bosses do not get the buff to hp and damage. In other words, they did not beat the hardest designed version of the boss fight. It is much more like they did heroic 25M progression and got all the heroic gear, then backtracked and killed Garrosh on normal difficulty. Their 10M heroic is not designed to be as difficult as 25M heroic.

[Deleted]

What the bloody hell are you on about, I thought 10m and 25m shared the same item level loot?

Items that drop in 10-man raids have 0/2 upgrades. Items that drop in 25 man raids have 2/4 upgrades.

I'm not sure why this thread is still going.

[Odina]

Then should the kills not be labeled "WORLD FIRST (EU/US CLIENT)" Or something i still do not see the logic.. FIRST means to kill something first and WORLD means everyone.

They both fit into the WORLD and FIRST criteria regardless of difficulty.

So I take it in the olympics if some one is caught using steroids so long as they were first in the race you are ok with them keepign gold... It doesnt matter they had an advantage over thre competitors they were still first... right?

that is the argument you are making right now FYI

[khalltusk]

Items that drop in 10-man raids have 0/2 upgrades. Items that drop in 25 man raids have 2/4 upgrades.

I'm not sure why this thread is still going.

Thanks for clearing that up makes more sense. If thats the case then yeh I would discount them from the 10man kill as they basically cheesed it then again most WF guilds use any legal means of cheesing encounters.

It does reinforce the point of counting each region and setting as a separate race.

[Wyattbw09]

So I take it in the olympics if some one is caught using steroids so long as they were first in the race you are ok with them keepign gold... It doesnt matter they had an advantage over thre competitors they were still first... right?

that is the argument you are making right now FYI

It is not the same as cheating. Cheating is circumventing the rules. When a guild cheats using bug exploits Blizzard wipes away their progress and rewards. The Asian guild played under a different but fully legal rule set. The kill does not mean as much as Method's kill. However, calling them cheaters is simply misinformed and wrong headed.

[Azrile]

What the bloody hell are you on about, I thought 10m and 25m shared the same item level loot? The only thing being 25man drops slightly more loot than 10man? (unless 25man in asia drops more than 10man which is fair enough anyone killing it like should be taken out of the 10man race)

I am fully aware of what they killed but the fact remains that this silly "world" first bullshit should be dropped and should be down to regions and what scale the encounter was done on 10/25. So you can have

EU first 10 or 25man recorded separately
US first 10 or 25man recorded separately
Asia first 10 or 25man recorded separately

That would be a fair way of reporting it.

Nope, you are wrong. Their 25M raids drop higher ilvl gear than 10M raids, AND it can be upgraded 4 times, not 2 times. That is the point everyone is trying to make. There is a very steep difficulty jump in Asia going from 10M to 25M. They used all the gear from the 25M and then backtracked and killed the boss on the easier 10M version which is designed around a much lower ilvl. In EU/USA 10M and 25M are designed to be similar in difficulty.. in China, there is clear progression from 10M to 25M with huge ilvl increases included.