so from someone who was around since vanilla

[Venant]

I don't get why people get nostalgic about vanilla gear, it was often horribly itemized and there was no variety. Then there were completely stupid circumstances like being a DPS warrior and not choosing Blackhands Breadth meant not having a decent dps trinket until you raided BWL. I mean seriously, they put in a one time quest, and if you choose poorly you are pretty much screwed over because GMs won't change your trinket (I was given a warning back then for asking twice). Oh yeah and it is great when they simply don't itemize certain slots for your spec for several tiers, which results in you wearing Lionheart Helm all the way up to Naxx! Plus bosses only dropped like 2 pieces of loot for 40 people, so you would end up having to farm multiple tiers forever because some items simply never dropped.

And don't even get started on certain class specs being completely unplayable... or for that matter certain CLASSES (Im looking at you druids!) being completely useless in raids in vanilla. If they released vanilla with today's standards the game would be considered a complete failure. Congratulations to everyone who played and raided in vanilla, you spent an absurd amount of time playing a completely terrible game. (yay 300+ days /played on my warrior by the end of vanilla)

[Deleted]

I would take any other expansions PvP over MoP, except for Cataclysm. It was equally almost as boring... :P

Wotlk PvP is still the most fun in terms of gameplay. Played a lot on arena-tournament.com and it's a lot of fun. Too bad that Shadowmourne and ilevel 277 PvE trinkets ruined the fun on retail, no such imbalances on arena-tournament.

PvP in MoP has made me stay away from PvP for the first time in an expansion. Even though I used to be mainly a PvP'er.

[Cyrops]

Played since closed beta, even before Vanilla.
5.4 best patch yet.
From OP post I gather WoW is not for you, if you do not raid. But have you tried other things? Pet Battles? PvP? RP? Challenge modes?

[Rucati]

Been playing since vanilla, think I've maybe been unsubscribed for around 9 months total in the last 10 years.

MoP isn't the best (Burning Crusade wins that award) but MoP blows vanilla/Wrath/Cata out of the water.

Vanilla was just a lot of sitting around waiting for something to happen. Waiting for PuG groups to form, waiting for 40 people to log on for you raid, waiting for 10+ minute BG queues.

BC was good, arenas were really fun and pretty balanced, BG queues were lower with cross server (I realize that vanilla had cross server, but that was implemented later), 5mans were somewhat interesting, although not hard they required some thought, and the raids were really great.

Wrath was kind of mediocre. PvP was a joke, the raids were overall kind of meh (Ulduar was good, ICC was okay, Naxx was just a remake and the 1 boss quick instances were kind of a failure, which I guess is why they stopped doing them), 5mans were just blown through instantly, and there wasn't a whole lot else to do.

Cata was just bad. PvP was the worst it's ever been, raids were completely awful, 5 mans were okay, but an entire expansion with only good 5 mans is kind of stupid.

MoP is pretty okay, really. The PvP is kind of CC spammy, but it's really not that bad if your'e in a good team that knows how to counter everything. There's a decent amount of CC if you're a melee and getting kited kinda sucks, but it's always been like that and it's really not too terrible. The raids are really good, the encounters are interesting and ToT was really good and SoO is looking good too. I'd say the two best raids since Ulduar, worse than Sunwell, about even with Black Temple though. 5 mans are a joke, but they're also not necessary, there's quite a bit else to do. Between battle pets, the new 5.4 isle for grinding stuff, the tillers thing, there's just a more stuff to do now then there was in previous expansions, plus with LFR you can even "raid" whenever if you want and get gear.

I'd rank it worse than BC, only because every BC raid was really good and the PvP was pretty perfect, but other then that MoP is actually really good right now.

[Buu]

I just want to say I am not one of those people that comes up with rant posts every week concerning the state of this or that and now I am 'quitting'.

I am writing this because I wanted to ask others who have also been around since vanilla.
I have not played wow in years, sure every time a new expansion comes out I quit after a couple of months.

I cant really explain it but the game doesn't feel as good as it used to. I think my favorite was wotlk and probably cata too if i had time to play it at the time but now i pop in MoP from time to time and I have to say the world holds no interest to me.
everyone is riding one a dragon or some other mythical creature and judgment gears and warglaves of azinoth are in an all time high.

I guess I am just disillusioned from all this stuff and crave the simpler times of before.
and just to make it clear I was never a major raider and the only time I did was during icecrown (yea I am that slow) but the armor I got was soon replaced pretty fast so that was kind of a downer but its k :P

anyways what about you guys? do you feel the same?

Well, from someone that skipped from Warcraft 3 to Wrath of the Lich King: The game looked like shit for me in this hiatus. I would rather keep playing WC3 and my favorite WC2, than hopping in at what WoW had to offer. About 3 months after the release of WotLK I saw a game that was more compelling.

So, here is a guy that never played Vanilla not because he wasn't around, but because the game looked HORRIBLE back then. Even doing Loremaster with all the commodities of WotLK in the old Azeroth was a pain.

So, no, I wouldn't start to play WoW EVER if it was like Vanilla.

[Deleted]

I still don't get how you can go from an Outlands awesome design to the blant zones MOP has.

Not sure if I have ever disagreed with something this much. The only exception is Townlong Steppes, it's nothing special, but the rest of the Pandaria zones wipe the floor with Outland ones.

[vep]

Gameplay wise the game has gone forward, but atmosphere wise the game has gone backwards. I still don't get how you can go from an Outlands awesome design to the blant zones MOP has.

Say what? I loved and still do love TBC but seriously, MoP zones > Outlands. Easily. Maybe not when it comes to raids but open world is definitely better in Pandaria.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, from someone that skipped from Warcraft 3 to Wrath of the Lich King: The game looked like shit for me in this hiatus. I would rather keep playing WC3 and my favorite WC2, than hopping in at what WoW had to offer. About 3 months after the release of WotLK I saw a game that was more compelling.

So, here is a guy that never played Vanilla not because he wasn't around, but because the game looked HORRIBLE back then. Even doing Loremaster with all the commodities of WotLK in the old Azeroth was a pain.

So, no, I wouldn't start to play WoW EVER if it was like Vanilla.

So you're basically badmouthing a game you never experienced? That's cool, bro.

[Deleted]

TBC > MoP > Wotlk > Cata > Vanilla


But seriously Vanilla wasn't that great, lots of pointless grinding for no reason and almost brain dead boss mechanics 70% of the time.

[yjmark]

The part that's bolded is the part that has changed.
Leveling, gearing and raiding all have changed.

Leveling, gearing, and raiding have really not changed much at all if you really think about it. Example - raiding:

1) Still need to get a bunch of people together
2) Still need tanks, DPS, and Healers
3) Still killing trash, then some bosses.

That is 90% of raiding, and it has not changed at all. The changes most people are complaining about are very very minor in the overall scheme of things. People just like to make big deals out of small things.

If you go into a vanilla raid on a vanilla private server in appropriate gear, vs going to a normal mode MoP raid on a normal server in appropriate gear, there is not that much difference other than the number of people, boss abilities, background graphics, and your rotations. The middle 2 changed with every raid anyways. So the first and last are the only real differences.

[Hyve]

As someone who has played since Classic, I can tell you I loathed Classic. It was awful, dreadful and vile. The community was just as horrible, except we were not able to experience it on the scale we do today.

The game has only improved, and while some features were a mistake (LFR & Flying Mounts) in my opinion, the game has done amazing things to become a nicer environment and a more enjoyable game.

[Terridon]

whats the question? i played since early vanilla, my favorite times in the game are MoP and wotlk. Vanilla was fun to me because it was new for me, my first mmo, first time raiding, i had fun playing it and great memories, but certainly don't miss it.

Sums it up for me too.
Raided back then. Raiding now. Love MoP

[Saeran]

whats the question? i played since early vanilla, my favorite times in the game are MoP and wotlk. Vanilla was fun to me because it was new for me, my first mmo, first time raiding, i had fun playing it and great memories, but certainly don't miss it.

My thoughts exactly, no more words needed to be added.

[Hyve]

Leveling, gearing, and raiding have really not changed much at all if you really think about it. Example - raiding:

1) Still need to get a bunch of people together
2) Still need tanks, DPS, and Healers
3) Still killing trash, then some bosses.

That is 90% of raiding, and it has not changed at all. The changes most people are complaining about are very very minor.

That is the single worst comparison I have ever seen in my life, kudos.

Raiding is not about just getting a group together, it is about the content. The content of the raids have changed enormously, to a point where if it wasn't so gradual the change would be almost unrecognisable to a Classic player.

Just because you need Tanks, DPS & Healers still doesn't mean it hasn't changed. Remember Classic raiding was all about this;

1) If you can heal, you healed.
2) If you can tank, you tanked.
3) If you're not one of the above, and you're not a Mage / Warlock / Rogue, good luck getting a raiding spot!

The trash and bosses have also changed a ton since Classic. Remember the mechanics of many of the older tiers? No? Because there were none, you literally just turned up, fought stuff and hoped for the best. The addition of the extra action button, phased content, and much more has drastically changed the mechanics of all the encounters.

Sorry, but you're clearly not even thinking about this objectively.

[Buu]

So you're basically badmouthing a game you never experienced? That's cool, bro.

No, I'm saying that it was a game that NEVER appealed to me. It is true, or you're telling that having nothing of interesting, and looking like a downgrade was impossible to happen?
And then I'm saying I actually confirmed that impression was right, when I played the game with already huge improvements, and it was a royal P.I.T.A. until I hit the 68+ content.

So, you're wrong. My judgment about the capability of the game to please me was right. Vanilla World of Walkcraft, and even that horrible atonement model from BC, would have scare me in the first month.

[yjmark]

That is the single worst comparison I have ever seen in my life, kudos.

Raiding is not about just getting a group together, it is about the content. The content of the raids have changed enormously, to a point where if it wasn't so gradual the change would be almost unrecognisable to a Classic player.

Just because you need Tanks, DPS & Healers still doesn't mean it hasn't changed. Remember Classic raiding was all about this;

1) If you can heal, you healed.
2) If you can tank, you tanked.
3) If you're not one of the above, and you're not a Mage / Warlock / Rogue, good luck getting a raiding spot!

The trash and bosses have also changed a ton since Classic. Remember the mechanics of many of the older tiers? No? Because there were none, you literally just turned up, fought stuff and hoped for the best. The addition of the extra action button, phased content, and much more has drastically changed the mechanics of all the encounters.

Sorry, but you're clearly not even thinking about this objectively.

I disagree. First, the 3 items you mentioned were all before you got into a raid. Everything I mentioned was once you were in a raid. Congrats on your apples to oranges comparison.

Also, mechanics were simpler back then. Yes. However, there were absolutely mechanics on most bosses. And even some trash. Claiming there were no mechanics is a clear indication that you never actually raided in vanilla, or you were just carried. The mechanics were much simpler, but it is nowhere near like "playing a completely different game" or "completely unrecognizable". A few extra mechanics and an action button are nowhere near the level of change as to make it "unrecognizable". In fact, if you time warped a vanilla raider into MoP, the hardest adjustment for them would be to learn the skills of their class/spec again. Everything else would be easy, recognizable, and familiar.

[Sqeen]

The only thing I really miss is the excitement back in those days. Raiding Southshore in the beta with a raid of 40 people between level 11 and 46 not knowing where to go or what to do, getting chased by 100+ guards and lagging to death :P

Or the excitement you had with your first character, looking forward every single level to a new spell not knowing what you will get or grinding some mobs for some coins to pay for your repairs, professions or even save up for a mount. Even not knowing what you were doing was rather fun (Elemental Shaman with 2H Axe )

Looking into other classes you never played before and experience the new spells once again but leveling again got already a bit boring.

edit: sometimes when I want to remember that feeling I turn on the ingame music and walk into orgrimmar. It just brings up good memories from the old days.


Yeah I miss that stuff, new expansions get those feelings back for some days but afterwards its overall the same as always. BUT! the game has improved in so many ways that I really don't want to miss all the additions who made it into the game. Just to name a few: LFD, BG queuing without going to the actual BG, improvements who made addons obsolete (outfitter f.e.) and many more.

[Aucald]

You really think they are that different. imho, Vanilla and MoP are not that different. 90% is the same. Most of the changes are quite minor when you look at the game as a whole. It's still the same basic gameplay - quest to level, get gear to increase your stats, grind and raid at max level.

Yeah, the skills/talents have changed over time. The amount of people with epic gear has changed. The attitude of the playerbase has changed a lot. However, the game itself is still very very similar to how it was in vanilla.

As always, YMMV. I had a friend who quit back in the beginning of Wrath and returned for at the end of 5.3 in MoP. His return was accompanied by a barrage of questions (which I expected, given the nature of the changes from then to now). "Where are my talents?" "What's a Specialization mean?" "Blood isn't a DPS tree anymore?" "Why is my Relic spot gone, and the item a piece of vendor trash?" "Why are people from different servers showing up in zones?" "What's a Scenario?" "What are Valor and Justice Points for?"

I think people who have flowed from expansion to expansion and content patch to content patch really under-appreciate just how much the game has changed. While there are probably some people who could be plucked out of time from 2004 or 2005 and deposited into WoW in 2013 and play just fine I still think I'd be safe in saying they'd be a radical minority. Most people would be baffled at how much the class they've chosen has changed ("Wow, so Warlocks aren't just free HK's anymore?"), and would probably have to re-learn how to play the game from basically scratch.

[Sierra85]

I think people who have flowed from expansion to expansion and content patch to content patch really under-appreciate just how much the game has changed.

the essence of the game is still the same, quest to max level and do dungeons/raids/pvp to better your stats. Everything else is just flavouring on that basic theme of logging in to make your character stronger.

[RickJamesLich]

the essence of the game is still the same, quest to max level and do dungeons/raids/pvp to better your stats. Everything else is just flavouring on that basic theme of logging in to make your character stronger.

Gotta disagree here. While the leveling portion is definitely in, just about everything else has been distorted big time. One of the big draws in the game was the social experience, you made tons of buddies while leveling, often because you had to group up with other people, whether it was dungeons, tough quests, or if you just needed help with some odd ball thing. Nowadays you can hit 90 without ever talking to anybody because of stuff like LFD and the quests being incredibly easy. I think it kinda sucks out the fun because you never have a reason to make buddies with anyone, and easy content IMO just simply does not feel rewarding.


At 90, I think it's even worse. You're forced to go into random queue's with strangers you'll never meet again, and then the jump from LFR to actual raiding is incredibly huge. In the previous versions of the game, they'd at least do stuff to prepare you somewhat, whether it was grinding out gear, or just doing 5 mans which required much more coordination now then they did back then. The essence of the game has changed greatly IMO.

[Shockeye]

Started in vanilla WoW and overall I have to say the game has consistently changed for the better. My primary criteria for "better" is accessibility and WoW has only become more accessible and casts off locking players out of content or broader options for no good reason.

My only significant criticism is that questing is too easy, there is absolutely zero challenge and makes the process feel pointless. Questing should be a challenge and leveling should teach you about your class, and the current model fails on both counts. Personally I am not fond of the new talent system, I liked the more complex one, but I also understand the rationale behind the change so I'm not hugely critical of it.

But overall, WoW has become bigger, more engaging, more open, visually excellent and continues to maintain flexibility and choice in many areas. My personal suspicion about those who claim vanilla to TBC were superior don't like the plebes getting in the way of their own artificially inflated sense of worth and status so there's a heavy bias at play.

Rarely is a game perfect, even more rare is a multiplayer game going to meet the needs of everyone that plays or has played it, but WoW is pretty darned close to meeting rather high standards. People will always complain because that's what we do, but I think, logically speaking, that WoW is far better than it was back in vanilla.